<p>ddjones007,
are you an ND student?</p>
<p>"your an arrogant brat." - GreenDayFan</p>
<p>Nice grammar.</p>
<p>"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here".</p>
<p>I am a student admitted to ND in 2007, I also happen to be a minority. I worked hard to get admitted and never once considered that my race would be an issue. It was one tiny box checked on the application. I didn't write about it in an essay or ask for special consideration and I don't expect special consideration in my studies at Notre Dame. I really would not like to be seen as the "person" who took another's place because of my race!</p>
<p>Where I live we are all disadvantaged, regardless of race. Not necessarily economically but certainly socially and academically. We are the place people come to work at right out of college so their loans are forgiven. This is an area where some don't have electricity and it is common to see trucks hauling water back to their homes because there is no running water.<br>
True, my stats are not as stellar as many of the people posting here but I hope that we all bring to ND much more than stats.
For myself, I hope that I bring to ND more an understanding of human kindness and compassion than of scientific formulas or quotes of Shakespeare.
My parent's could have sent me away to a boarding school to get a "better" education but thank God they didn't because I have had an incredible real life education that could never be taught in a classroom. </p>
<p>And in the end, won't the "diverse" nature and knowledge of every one of us mixed together in one place be the most important lesson?</p>
<p>
[quote]
"your an arrogant brat." - GreenDayFan</p>
<p>Nice grammar.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are you kidding me?</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant to say "you're" as in the conjunction for "you are." I was typing fast and made an error, I know grammar. And that is completely irrelevant to anything in this discussion, don't you think?</p>
<p>Also, to those who implied I wasn't dignified in my post and I shouldn't namecall:I was not namecalling for the sake of namecalling, I truly believe said poster was both arrogant and a brat(or a person who has many of the characterists associated with a brat.) That said, I have no problem expressing my opinions, whether or not they agree with yours. I simply find it ridiculous, as a white person myself, that another white person would actually claim that white people are always at a disadvantage. Even with affirmative action, white people are still and always have been favored in society. Also, I considered this poster arrogant because of their gripe that they got waitlisted because minorities who are USUALLY unqualified got accepted over them. For some of these minorities, those who havent had the opportunities you've had, they've done above and beyond what anyone would expect them to do. And I bet you couldn't do as good as half of them if you'd been dealt what they have in their lives. Stop being so selfish. Stop blaming your failures on other people. It's just not attractive.</p>
<p>tracker, i do not mean to offend you, but you say you didn't ask for special considertion--you did get some anways. the point is this--don't you think it's a little unfair that a white person, who overcame the same hardships as you and came from that same "disadvantaged" neighborhood as you did, could hypothetically have your same stats (and same essay appeal) and might not get in because you are a minority and he is white? i do not mean to offend you at all; i hope i don't--i am only trying to spark something for arguments sake, but isn't this somewhat unfair? i see both sides to it, but as a white student who was waitlisted i am slightly biased lol</p>
<p>and yes i do have a good chance at getting in still!!! i e-mailed saracino who said they are going to use the waitlist; they will not know how many until next week. There are only 500 on it so I think I have a pretty good shot!</p>
<p>jvon, it's not offensive and I do understand it. In fact I didn't realize until this topic came up that AA was a large part of admissions. The other colleges I applied to and got admitted to do not use AA so I didn't really think too much about it. And I do hope that someone in the same boat as me would get in regardless of race. And I really hope you get in! :)</p>
<p>Jvon,
You should check out some of the other arguments on this post. Whites from poor neighborhoods DO get special consideration in admissions. Admissions departments have computer programs that they use to evaluate a candidate's socioeconomic background: parent's jobs, high school and neighborhood economics, etc.</p>
<p>Dear Irish,
I know you wanted a PM, but I'd like to post my last comment on this thread as well. I don't think your five/six finger debate works well, unless of course, people with five fingers were forced into slavery, locked-out of opportunities, and tortured for a period of three hundred years because of their phenotypes. I think you should stick to race here. Would I, as a white doctor, feel offended if a minority with "less-stellar" reviews got the job over me because they were black/Latino/Asian? Yes, absolutely. But I would be upset if a white person were given that spot. Anytime someone else gets a place you feel you've earned, it's rough. However, maybe the patient population benefits from having a person of color in that position; if it's in a majority-minority community, it doesn't matter how good of a technical doctor I am, it is important to understand the patients. Of course, having minority doctors on staff would help all of us to understand those issues. </p>
<p>I understand that you feel that certain whites have worked hard. But don't you think it's possible, just maybe, that someone of a different race has worked hard. I've been in South Bend for four years, and have worked with teenagers from inner-city schools here. They work hard and make excellent grades for their schools despite the violence and bad influences around them.
Should they not be accepted because of a 1200 on the SAT? What strength and perserverance it must require to thrive in an environment where failure is such a more predicted (and even admired) outcome. To say that one of these kids is any less hard working than you are is ludicrous. </p>
<p>To repeat a quote by one of my science professors: "We're not collecting buckets of sweat", we're trying to create the best learning environment for our students. If you feel cheated...Sorry. </p>
<p>In terms white entitlement not being about race, I can't buy this. Maybe you really feel that this is not the case for you, but I think this is evidenced in how many kids feel cheated by minorities but not by legacies. Yes, the size of the SAT score gap between admitted legacies and admitted minorities is big, but what do you expect? You're taking the children of NOTRE DAME GRADUATES, and comparing them to minority kids, most of whom grew up in lower/lower middle-class families and went to low-income schools. If anything, the privileged are benefitting twice in ND admissions. In most of these cases, however, students don't feel cheated. Now how does this paradox not relate to race?</p>
<p>Princess, I was an ND student many eons ago when being a woman was a bona fide minority on campus. I remember going to the ND Freshman Sendoff in my area, and a class of '53 ND alum asking me if I were going to ND or SMC. When I told him ND, he told me point blank that he thought the admission of women was the worst thing that ever happened to the university and was destined to bring about its demise. Amazingly, he was not alone, as many professors and others on campus felt the same. I graduated in 1984.</p>
<p>I'm also mom to a current ND sophomore--oops, scratch that, he just showed up at home last night, so I guess that makes him a junior--and a daughter who will be attending ND in the fall. So I guess you could say I've seen the place from the perspective of a couple of generations...</p>
<p>I haven't really weighed in on the minority recruiting issue on this string, but I'm of the belief that race would be one of those things I'd consider to be an intangible. All we see on these boards is the stats--we don't have the benefit of seeing the essays and the recommendations written by teachers; we don't know what the profile of the school is. My guess would be there are probably some people who gain an unfair advantage through affirmative action, and plenty more who don't. Same holds true for legacy and a whole host of other circumstances... </p>
<p>Bottom line is that people are more than the statistical average of their GPA's, test scores and extracurricular lists. I honestly believe Notre Dame makes a genuine effort to try to read between the lines to determine not just where a student has stood in the past, but what potential he or she will have in the future...</p>
<p>Greendayfan,
Did you get in? You'd be a welcomed addition to ND!</p>
<p>i havent applied to colleges yet ill be a junior next year, i just saw this under new posts. but thanks!</p>