Mom's Help?

<p>MusThCC,</p>

<p>Your observations and questions are very well-put. What makes this all the more difficult is that we are dealing with teenagers--we simply can't expect them to think and approach this process as adults. But, yes, we have certainly had numerous "discussions" (my D would probably refer to them as "lectures") about passion, self-motivation, and (gasp!!) having to look at her dream as a way of (double gasp!!) earning a living. I don't think most seventeen year olds can really grasp the implications of those concerns--it's not that our comments go in one ear and out the other, they just don't have the "benefits" of the maturity and real life trials and errors that we do as their parents. Does all this mean that our kids could call us next December in tears saying they know longer want to be on Broadway--perhaps...but it's just as possible that they'll be calling us to tell us how much they love what they are doing and studying.</p>

<p>Now I know and truly understand the expression "Misery loves company!" I constantly remind myself to "just breathe...breathe deeply!" There have been many moments of "gasp and double gasp" between my husband and me. BiGismama...you made us both laugh out loud with "Have all of you been living in my house?" It sure helps to laugh! Thanks!</p>

<p>Coach, I know exactly what you mean and I like to pretend that is what I am doing but somehow it just doesn't always work out. Since D doesn't drive giong to an audition requires an amount of preparation from evey member of the family, particulalr ones that cannot be done in one day. So after I have made arrangements for the cats/dog/food/ transportation for other kids ... auditioning just as a learning experience is not always first in my mind. Maybe once on the road or afterwards but preceeding it is really hard NOT to want to be sure D has put in her part as fully as she can. The conflict frequently comes, and in my saner moments I see it, is thta she feels this family pressure which creates as much nervous tension as the audition itself. We certainly don't expect her to get most parts or any, and have enjoyed the trips, experiences, and learning that occurs, and all. But the preparation, whether it is her passion and choice are hers creates tension, that maybe as a mother is best expressed as nagging. Her father deals with it completely differently as he gets EXTREMELY nervous.</p>

<p>I don't know if this makes sense, but I completely understand how MThead feels and the line between pushing, supporting, and keeping a sane household for everyone is blurry.</p>

<p>So well said, MusThCC and I could not agree more. I cannot tell you all how many times I have been forced to ask myself, "who is this for?" An example (aka confession time - yes, even Jewish mothers must confess occassionally....):</p>

<p>When my D was going through the audition process, after completing 6 of 8 scheduled auditions she got the acceptance she wanted most in the world. One of the remaining ones was scheduled three days after the acceptance came and I told her I thought she should still do it because it would be "fun." While not using these exact words, her response was along the lines of "fun for who?" MAJOR Mom wake-up call....... </p>

<p>We all have as much to learn as we have to teach as a result of traveling this road with our kids. I guess the best advice is to LISTEN to the advice we give our kids. </p>

<p>With regard to the perfectly understandable inclination to push your kids to prepare, those of you who are experiencing this difficulty are lucky if your kids do this when just applying for a summer program as opposed to the "real deal." Having to deal with the consequences of your own behavior is the most powerful life lesson there is. We do our children no favors when we constantly swoop in and rescue them from their own actions. Clearly I'm not talking about anything life threatening. But, as another example, the first time my D auditioned for BTP (she was 15 and just starting to think that maybe MT was a better option than ballet) she had no teachers or coaches and my advice raised hackles the size of broad swords. She chose a monologue a week before the audition, did it with a dialect, chose a way overdone song and was "shocked" when she wasn't accepted. Talk about wake-up calls......... </p>

<p>And while I wish I could tell you that all of these same issues will disappear once they are in a program, nothing could be further from the truth. I still agonize over some of the choices she makes but keep lots of Kleenex next to the phone so I can dab at the trickle of blood that comes as a result of biting my tongue. I will say that it is a bit easier to deal with these issues when they are away and you don't have to bear witness to ALL of the choices and only hear about many of them after the results of the choices are in.</p>

<p>Bottom line - separation time is coming Mom's and Dad's. As hard as it is, we have to get off the train, wave hello and goodbye as they come and go through the station where we live and hope that they remember to charge their cell phone batteries.</p>

<p>...........And thank our lucky stars that we have each other to ask advice of, to b--ch and moan to, to share the exciting news and cry over the disappointments with (apologies to the Grammar police for the dangling prepositions....). Why else are we here? We are each other's soft place to fall. I have made friends here that I will have for the rest of my life. Who knew?</p>

<p>MTHeaded: We are not doing CMU or UMich although we came claose. She really wanted to go to CAP21 in NYC so we auditioned there first and she got in. She is very happy and I am looking at it as a way to find out if NYC is really for her or not. NYU is (as are how many millions) her first choice school so she si hoping this is a good way to learn what it might be like. </p>

<p>I know it will be a tough summer. SHe asked us over dinner last night what we were going to do with ourselves all summer (My younger son is going away to be a camp counselor for 5 weeks as well). It is hard to imagine but I think we'll manage......:)</p>

<p>Wow.....am I thankful that I read CC?? You bet! I really appreciate all the honest assessments of teenage scheduling. (last minute) Very true in our house also! :)</p>

<p>Okay…I think I’ve got it now! Here’s my new “To Do List”…look at the wisdom here!!!</p>

<ol>
<li> Just support and understand this is what they love!</li>
<li> Encourage them to work, but don't push.</li>
<li> Be a guide...sit down with them, plan out a time line together, discuss what needs to happen next.</li>
<li> The motivation to do the work has to be internal. You can guide and facilitate but they still gotta drive this process.</li>
<li> Try not to nag too much but have meetings about what is next, when they think they might do it, and then check in at some point</li>
<li> They really DO want your advice but they don't want to ADMIT it! It works when they bring it up.</li>
<li> Don’t overwhelm them with information and it puts you in the driver's seat of their lives.</li>
<li> Be the calendar coordinator and travel agent and chaperone for the trips. </li>
<li> You can nag, encourage, schedule, plan, research, etc...in the end, they decide how much he or she really wants to invest in the process--not just in the quantity but the quality of the time spent…</li>
<li>Be the keeper of hope and the fanner of the flames.</li>
<li>Casually drop a tidbit of info, leave it alone, and wait for them to ask for more.</li>
<li>Remember, even when they are whining about our nagging, seem to be procrastinating or appear really irritated with us, they are probably grateful.</li>
<li> We parents are meant to be the "guides", to gently nudge them back onto the path and remind them every now and then of where they wanted this journey to take them.</li>
<li> We are "a soft place to land" - great role for ANY supportive parent.</li>
<li> Beyond that - this pursuit has to be your child's PASSION, and not yours!</li>
<li> Ask "who is this for?"</li>
<li> We all have as much to learn as we have to teach as a result of traveling this road with our kids. The best advice is to LISTEN to the advice we give our kids.
(I hope I got your words right!)</li>
</ol>

<p>TheaterMom, "trickle of blood", Ha!
MTHeaded, great list of points, we should all print and post it (somewhere the kids won't see it!)</p>

<p>MTHeaded,</p>

<p>Well done!</p>

<p>Fabulous thread, and wonderful, concise list, MTheaded! I have learned, through experience :) that just because my D is not asking me to hear her monologue/song choice, etc. does not mean that <em>she</em> has not prepared it and is not ready! I am sure it's the same for many of your kids. I also have found that if I am not always asking (she might say "interrogating" <g>) her about what monologue she is doing, etc., my D is far more willing to share. (I am pretty sure it works this way with all teens, whether they are involved in MT or not. :))
One great thing about this whole list is that it makes so much info available. But that's also, imo, the dangerous thing about it, if we feel we <em>have</em> to constantly share that info with our kids. (When I came on this list early on, I would go on endlessly to my D about what I had found out about colleges, admission, etc. I quickly learned that that felt like pressure to her, so I stopped. Now, I do as MTheaded's list suggested, and just drop a tidbit now and again.) They can only take in so much info at a time, and it is the nature of their age not to truly believe that they will <em>ever</em> have to earn a living, be on their own, etc. etc.
Thanks again for a great thread. Nice to know we are all in this together.
L</g></p>

<p>scogor: I absolutely agree with your observations. Part of what I find frustrating is that I think I expect D to have an adult take on all this (regarding passion, drive, motivation), but have to keep reminding myself that no matter how old SHE thinks she is (or appears to be), in reality she's still a kid; and while she has those 3 attributes listed above in some form or fashion, she does not yet have the life experience to make the choices that an adult would make. I hope that's what college and living on her own will do for her. She is already so much more mature and responsible than her "regular" friends that I think it's sometimes difficult to not have overly high expectations....I'll bet many, if not most of you are in the same boat. Does that make sense?</p>

<p>MTHeaded: Love the list! I'm gonna print it and keep it in several handy spots (where D won't find it) to read at those tension-filled times!</p>

<p>TheaterMom: Ouch!!! LOL for the "trickle of blood". Well said!</p>

<p>Trickle of blood.... ha ha ha...... Been there, done that! Well said! And I, too, feel like I've made a lot of friends - many of whom I will never meet; many of whom I'm sure paths will cross. As we've said, the theater world is actually very small.
As far as Mom's help, my daughter occasionally asks what songs she should sing for auditions, and I sometimes suggest some that I think are good for her voice even when she DOESN'T ask. She doesn't seem to mind (at least, she doesn't say, "Mom, you dork, that song s@#$s!!!") I think she appreciates my honesty, because I will tell her truthfully if a song doesn't show range, is too high of a belt for her, etc. None of her friends will be truthful like that! (She wouldn't sing in front of them, anyway!) But the end choice is hers, and many times, even if I think she picked a bad song, she's going to use it for her audition anyway.</p>

<p>Well said, theatermom, and everyone, for that matter! I've had those blood trickles, too, and my husband knows by the way the phone is laid back onto it's post how the conversation went. We've all been there and we're still going through it, at least I am. With my D, I think we've come full cirlce, at least one small circle, in this journey. Sometimes now she'll call and ask me what I think! Sometimes I give her my two cents without being asked and she lovingly says "okay, mom". I know she has no intentions of listening to me, but it still feels good. We're all growing and learning together. This is a great thread. Thank you to everyone.</p>

<p>Wow, are we all good or what? And what a phenomenal summary of the "Seventeen Commandments of MT Parents"!!</p>

<p>All in favor of forcing "MTHeaded" to change her clearly inaccurate screen name, click your mouses (mice?)!!</p>

<p>The "MtHeaded" name is just a "wink wink" and a nod to the fact that I am blonde and at the stage in my life where I have several "blonde" moments (i.e. lapses in memory etc.) My D is the one who is truly MT headed. In my other life, I am a teacher, and I couldn't help summarizing and putting it into a list that we could all refer to from time to time when we have days like I had this week with my D. At my school we have learned to share our experiences in order to survive!!! So I thought I would share the benefits I gained from this thread!</p>

<p>MTheaded,</p>

<p>Great advice from everyone; I just have one idea to add. Nagging and all the bad feelings it causes between my son and I, is something I try to avoid. I started using his favorite mode of communication; e-mail. I almost never talked to him in person about “the college thing” but you can bet I would paste parts of CC postings in emails to him with tantalizing subject heads. "KID FINDS GOING NAKED DOESN”T WORK AT AUDITION" I would remind him about auditions/ applications coming up and their requirements in short bulletins. But the few minutes he had available to spend with me I tried to keep light unless HE brought the subject up. During the audition trips I provided him with a check list of thing he needed via e-mail and I tried to not speak unless spoken to for the most part. I really look fondly back on his auditions and although it nearly killed me I am glad I kept my mouth shut for the most part. He is happily attending OCU and I talk to him more in a week now than I did his entire senior year!</p>

<p>clueless, that is great. I love the email subject lines.</p>

<p>Clueless...what a fun approach to nagging...I am adding onto one of our "commandments"....see #11!</p>

<p>MT Parent Commandments
1. Just support and understand this is what they love!
2. Encourage them to work, but don't push.
3. Be a guide...sit down with them, plan out a time line together, discuss what needs to happen next.
4. The motivation to do the work has to be internal. You can guide and facilitate but they still gotta drive this process.
5. Try not to nag too much but have meetings about what is next, when they think they might do it, and then check in at some point
6. They really DO want your advice but they don't want to ADMIT it! It works when they bring it up.
7. Don’t overwhelm them with information and it puts you in the driver's seat of their lives.
8. Be the calendar coordinator and travel agent and chaperone for the trips.
9. You can nag, encourage, schedule, plan, research, etc...in the end, they decide how much he or she really wants to invest in the process--not just in the quantity but the quality of the time spent…
10. Be the keeper of hope and the fanner of the flames.
11. Casually drop a tidbit of info, leave it alone, and wait for them to ask for more. Try "virtual nagging" via email with clever subject headings!
12. Remember, even when they are whining about our nagging, seem to be procrastinating or appear really irritated with us, they are probably grateful.
13. We parents are meant to be the "guides", to gently nudge them back onto the path and remind them every now and then of where they wanted this journey to take them.
14. We are "a soft place to land" - great role for ANY supportive parent.
15. Beyond that - this pursuit has to be your child's PASSION, and not yours!
16. Ask "who is this for?"
17. We all have as much to learn as we have to teach as a result of traveling this road with our kids. The best advice is to LISTEN to the advice we give our kids.</p>

<p>Just be sure that whatever you end up doing .... it will be wrong!</p>

<p>This really is a great thread. I have been out of town today at one of my daughter's events and am now reading all these posts that are great. I have some thoughts to add but they are not all related but just responding to different things that came up on this thread today.</p>

<p>One...I really admire those DADS who are doing this whole deal with their kids. My husband is really into our daughters, interested and attends all their events, etc. But I was the one who was the support person through the college admissions process and audition process. He was aware of it all but I was in the trenches. All the visits and auditions were with me too. He took care of the financial aid applications :D. So, I do think it is cool to meet some of you dads who are doing the whole deal with your kids, rather than the mom. I'm wondering if you guys have the disagreements about outfits to wear and everything??? J/k. </p>

<p>Two...I couldn't agree more with MusThCC and had touched on that a bit in my earlier post. I don't think this thought pertains to anyone on this thread but my general feeling is that if you have to really push a kid in this college admissions process a lot, then it is time to sit back and examine the whole deal and have a heart to heart about what it is that they want and what they need to do to get there because if that passion and drive is NOT there, then I have to question if this is the right direction to go into. A BFA program requires a very strong work ethic. They need to know what these programs are like and if they are truly cut out for them (and I am NOT talking about talent). Often, in some programs, you hear of kids who dropped out of the programs voluntarily or else were kids who others were not surprised were cut (I'm not talking of all those who are cut but more the ones you hear others say, "it did not come as a surprise"). For some kids, until they have been immersed in the intensity required, they find out that it is not for them. There is a certain work ethic, motivation, drive, and passion that is needed. If someone has to MAKE you do it, and if this is happening just in the admissions process, then you gotta decide if this is the right path. I worked with a student where the parents, as well as myself, had to push and practically force the kid to do the application stuff, etc. and my feeling is if this is going to be a struggle to get a kid to do this, then this kid just is not cut out to pursue a BFA. There must be an internal motivation. If you want it badly, you'll WANT to do what it takes to get there. If you don't want to do the work, then reexamine the goals and maybe they are not the right path. I'm not talking about a little nudge here or there....like "did you get that application done? It needs be done by the end of the week." but am talking more about making the student do it who is not motivated to do so. If the little nudge here or there turns into pushing, then I have to seriously question if the student is cut out to do a BFA program. If someone has to make them do it, then they don't want it badly enough and will have trouble when no parent will be present. </p>

<p>Three....about the audition prep stuff....I think there are moments that a teen can drive ya crazy and there were some here too (though it did not have to do with her wanting to do the work or anything like that). For instance, I think my D spent WAY too much time DECIDING which songs to do for her auditions. After a few months of going back and forth, finding more or different songs (which is of course a good thing in itself), I kept saying that this is not about trying to find such a unique song that you spend months picking and barely any time working on whatever the chosen material will be! Later she admitted she did spend too much time concerned with WHAT songs to sing and that she concentrated too much on trying to find something different (again, that idea had to come to her herself, not from me, cause I know nothing!). There have been times when my D has had some kind of audition (NOT talking college ones now) where she picks a song to do at the last minute and I might think that is nuts. I've seen her do this for some important things or last minute things that have arisen. She just knows a lot of songs, will go in and sing something she has not worked on and be successful. She has won some competition sorts of things or gotten into some things where she just went in and sang something she decided that day or the day before sort of thing, and been quite successful with it. My husband will say that though you might think it is nutty, she knows herself and what she can do and seems to find success with it, so who are we to say? It works for her. She seems to know what she is doing. Each person has their own style, their own process, their own method of prep. They know their own selves.</p>

<p>Susan</p>