<p>i just finished reading the book monkey business, and any dream i ever had of ibanking is gone, poof. i realized that we only want to be investment bankers because of the nice pin striped suits, fancy hotels, and big fat ass bonuses given; i highly recommend ppl who may want to do i-banking to read this book.</p>
<p>Yawn.</p>
<p>What did you expect from two disgruntled ex-bankers? Read Liar's Poker for a more balanced view of the job.</p>
<p>Liar's poker is more about S&T than about banking.</p>
<p>There are some people who actually like banking. Like any profession some love it, others hate it. The best example is that of doctors. There are quite a few who absolutely LOVE their job and then there are others who hate every second of it.</p>
<p>Guguru,</p>
<p>I am afraid you were never Wall Street material based on your post. Making a HUGE decision, like abandoning a dream of being an investment banker based on one single, light-hearted book (which I read, by the way and enjoyed!) tells me you would be a poor analyst. Image doing your due diligence on a company based on one single source and then making a recommendation to them with millions of dollars on the line. Ludicrous!</p>
<p>First of all, you should contact alums on the Street and talk to them about what the lifestyle truly entails. In terms of books, Liars Poker is also a good read- I enjoy Michael Lewis' antidotes. If you have time, read Barbarians at the Gate or Goldman Sachs: The Culture of Success. Balance your reading, my friend! Also, talk to your career center. My guess, from your post, is that you're probably some high school kid that doesn't belong posting here. Otherwise, you are truly a lost soul who needs SERIOUS counseling.</p>
<p>Granted, i-banking isn't for everyone. You have to have thick skin, an analytical mind and sharp wits, personality skills, and a tolerance for risk. For me, i-banking was a perfect match. I will be joining Citigroup's Corporate and Investment Bank as a Public Finance analyst in July 2006. This, for me, is a dream come true. By the way guguru, if i-banking is so bad why did 500 people interview for 8 spots here at Citigroup? It is just a thought. </p>
<p>Good luck everyone who is serious to this career. There are many rewards to being an i-banker, and equivalently many sacrifices that must be made. Take this balance seriously before diving head first. But also, DO NOT make the decision based on a single book, article, or comment from your drunken roommate. Adios!</p>
<p>What school did you go to citi_banker?</p>
<p>"'This, for me, is a dream come true"</p>
<p>CONGRATULATIONS!</p>
<p>we want our dreams to come true too. so, dear citi_banker, can you share some tips on how to land on such a fantastic job with the rest of us on CC? also, which school did you go to?</p>
<p>thanks in advance.</p>
<p>Hi there. Thanks for the post. I know there is a lot of interest out there about i-banking so let me tell you how I broke into the job market and landed a job as a Public Finance Analyst with Citigroup Corporate and Investment Bank (<a href="http://www.citigroupgcib.com)%5B/url%5D">www.citigroupgcib.com)</a>. In terms of which college I attended, because I am still in negotiations over specific aspects of my contract with the bank, I rather keep that information private so as to not reveal my identity. The only reason for this is there is a confidentiality agreement and I do not want to risk slipping up and saying something on this post that could jeopordize my job before I even start! Suffice it to say, I go to a top 40 liberal arts school that is not a target school for Citigroup.</p>
<p>Anyways, let me answer how I obtained my position...This is long and will be posted on the next thread.</p>
<p>to citi_banker</p>
<p>yes, lol, i am a high schooler who probly does not belong here, but like many other ppl on this forum i am addicted to this site.
As i look back at that statement i do c the immaturity in it, i wasnt trying to be so offensive to the job, it was just that i finished reading the book and it was funny but did not give the most positive outlook on the job; . i really dont think i abandoned the option to go into the field of banking in the future and if i do want to go into it i would probly ldo some more research, im not that much of an idiot as i sounded and u assume me to be.</p>
<p>Frankly, I obtained this position by working extraordinarily hard and jumping at the best opportunities that were made available. Specifically, I networked by calling alums in NYC working in various capacities on Wall Street. Secondly, I sought advice from everyone at my college's career center numerous times over the course of the term. In fact, I began revising my resume and preparing for my senior year job hunt very early on and attended every "Breaking Into Finance" seminar the college offered since my sophomore year. (It helped I knew as a freshman that Finance was for me.)</p>
<p>Once I obtained a first-round interview with Citigroup CIB, I prepared by purchasing three WetFeet guides on investment banking and interviews for approximately $75. Also, I had two mock interviews with close friends of mine who were not afraid to speak their mind about my shortcomings and quirky mistakes. This constructive criticism helped me hone in on my interviewing weaknesses and polish up before game day. Lastly, I spent a minimum of 15 hours researching the company using the companys website (CEO message, 10K, 30-minute video on Citigroups 200-year history, etc.) and by downloading the Vault guide. One thing that really helped to streamline this process was purchasing an Ebook, for about $40, from <a href="http://www.ibinterviews.com%5B/url%5D">www.ibinterviews.com</a>. This guide told me exactly how to prepare for the interviews and what questions to expect. They were right on, in fact.
I highly recommend this guide-it is well worth the investment.</p>
<p>Upon being invited to Manhattan for the Superday (i-banking lingo for the final round interviews), I contacted my first-round interviewer, an alumnus, and sought his advice. He, in turn, placed me in touch with four current analysts both in NYC and a regional office down South. Furthermore, I spent another $300 by hiring a renown professional image consultant to work with me for two hours one-on-one fine-tune my interview skills and dining etiquette, as part of the Superday consisted of a banquet. Lastly, I stayed current on the economy and market by reading industry magazines such as the Bond Buyer using a free two-week trial. Altogether, this preparation took at least another 20 hours.</p>
<p>In the end, I spent nearly 40 hours and approximately $400 directly preparing for my Citigroup CIB interviews. Some may think this is excessive. My response is it may have been too littleI was lucky to get this highly competitive job! There were over 500 resumes submitted at the beginning of this recruiting season from candidates across the United States and some oversees (e.g. top candidates from Paris, London, Brussels, Prague, etc.) all vying for only 8 positions. I am not bragging to say that I am one of the 8 who got an offer; it was certainly not handed to me. All I am saying is that investment banking has always been and will continue to be among the most competitive industries in the world to break into directly out of college. </p>
<p>If you want a position with an investment bank, particularly any of the bulge bracket firms, I have several suggestions for you. First, most of your serious competition will be from Ivy League schools or other target schools who have previous investment banking internships. If you are from these institutions as well then it is a non-issue. If you are not, though, you have the level of work ahead of you that I went through.</p>
<p>A relevant internship in the financial industry is essentially a prerequisite to land a job (I had two and got securities licenses with my previous employer!). Secondly, make sure you due your due diligence on the firm and network! network! network! Furthermore, take a leadership role in a student-run club (ideally as the president, as I was for the Economics Club at my college during my sophomore year). Along those same lines, stay active in several clubs and activities that really interest you rather than trying to be a jack-of-all trades. Lastly, ideally choose a major that emphasizes your quantitative ability such as Economics, Engineering, Mathematics, Physics, etc. (I am finishing up as a senior in Managerial Economics), be in the top 5-10% of your class (yup!), and participate in a term abroad if you can (I went to London School of Economics as a General Course student- <a href="http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/generalCourse/)%5B/url%5D">www.lse.ac.uk/collections/generalCourse/)</a>. It probably helped that this is hands-down the best university in the world for economics and among the best for accounting and finance (the department I studied from last year).</p>
<p>In the end, it is all about fit The company wants to know that you can conform to their culture, can run the numbers at 2 AM without making any mistakes, and are hungry for the opportunity to do nothing else but run financial models and spew out Excel spreadsheets galore for at least the next two years of your life after graduation. (WARNING: This job is not for the faint at heart! You WILL be working at least 12-15 hour days, 6 days per week and sometimes 7). In the end, there are substantial rewards for making this sacrifice including exit opportunities with essentially the company of your choice, entrance into the best graduate schools in the world, a rolodex of influential business people, and a bank account that your parents will likely envy. Do not go into it for the money, though. Im not. The lifestyle is way too demanding for money alone to satisfy you and I guarantee you will either quit or get fired. Good luck!</p>
<p>On a final note, though, all the time and effort paid off when you consider the total compensation package being offered to me is so good it is mind-boggling. Specific details cannot be revealed due to a confidentiality clause in my contract. However, let me give you an idea. I am actually away from the action, as I will be working down South in a regional office. My pay, though, is the same as any NYC analyst although living expenses are 1/3 the amount...shh! Don't tell them. So, I have put a down payment from my sign-on bonus to purchase a 2006 Ford Mustang GT premium convertible with all the extra amenities, will have a 1,200 foot apartment with a guest room and 2 1/2 baths, and intend on socking probably as much into a savings account my first year as a typical finance major will gross their first year. There is a lot of money out there if you are willing to earn it. Again, good luck and remember- money is a pet pieve to i-bankers...Do not bring it up at interview time!!! (Just know you will be rich by entering this field. It will be comfort when your interviewers are grilling you for 5 hours at the Superday).</p>
<p>damn, u def deserved the position, congrats on that, and on the car man</p>
<p>thanks very much for the post. you earned it yourself, congratulations again.</p>
<p>that post is pushing me to study harder............</p>
<p>You emphasize your hard work preparing for the interview, and I'm glad you did. Would you say that the GPA/resume's purpose is just to GET the interview? Like once you earn your interview, are those not important anymore? I thought that at that point, your interview is all that matters. But considering how some people aren't even given interviews, I guess we should keep up with our schoolwork. Also, can you elaborate more on the best way to network?</p>
<p>Hey all,</p>
<p>This will have to be my last post for a while, so I'll try and be as complete as I can. Also, make sure to talk to people already in the industry...remember, I just got the job but have to still finish with college. To me, knowing what it takes to succeed as an i-banker is half the battle in convincing the recruiters that you are a good candidate. Furthermore, just as a caution...the steps I took worked for Citigroup. They did not work for Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley, for instance, although I did perform what Monkey Business refers to as "the ritual mating dance" with other "less white shoe banks." Okay, now proceed with caution.</p>
<p>Here is the minimum requirements Citigroup looked for as part of their resume screening process. A minimum 3.5 GPA was required, or equivalent to put you in the top 10% of your class. Although they emphasized any major would be looked at the Superday in NYCconsisted nearly EXCLUSIVELY of accounting, economics, and finance majors. Again, I have to emphasize getting involved on your campus in extracurriculars and taking leadership positions. At the same time I am mindful that this may be harder at big universities (and recruiters know that) than a small liberal arts college of 2,500 students like mine. Honestly, to ENSURE I got the interview, I actually called the recruiter who would be interviewing us a couple weeks in advance to introduce myself and explain my interest in the firm and in meeting him. It is smart to be aggressive, but there is a fine line between aggressiveness and pushiness...Do not cross it. Out of 25 resumes from my college, I got on the short interview list with five other candidates. Also, I had already talked to the recruiter and established a rapport while all the others were fretting about if their interviewer was male, female, HR, a banker, etc. (I already knew!)</p>
<p>Once you are in the interview, GPA is still on the table. I was asked if I had ever received a grade below B. (I had). Be honest about it. Citigroup is honing in on ethics, especially after their missteps with Enron, Worldcom, and problems in China (less media coverage on the latter). Anyways, if there is a valid reason for the low grade (I had medical issues that term and told him) then be upfront. If it was just not your best effort, let them know ONLY if this was during freshman/sophomore year...you better have a better excuse for courses taken junior/senior year. Lastly, if it was truly an advanced course that's fine, too. Otherwise, just get ALL A/A-'s and sidestep this whole issue.</p>
<p>In terms of networking, first of all, do not be a stranger at your career center. Especially those of you who are going to Ivy League and Ivy League equivalent colleges. When I was at London School of Economics last year, I utilized their career network to the fullest and was put in touch with literally industry titans (although they only gave me about 5 seconds each of their time!). In my college, one career counselor is a former Georgetown guru, so he understood banking. Be wary, if you are at a non-target school with very few grads going directly onto Wall Street, because the advice "most" students receive may not apply to you because landing a Wall Street job is beyond what "most" students do. For instance, there is a whole different strategy to acing an interview with Goldman vs. GE. For an excellent guide, purchase for about $40 an Ebook from <a href="http://www.ibankinginterviews.com%5B/url%5D">www.ibankinginterviews.com</a>. It is an excellent resource that helped me with all aspects of the research, interview questions preparation, etc.</p>
<p>What I did was searched the alumni database for all alums currently working at bulge bracket firms. Early this semester (early September - late October) I probably called between 25-40 alums currently on Wall Street, as well as with investment banks in equivalent capacities throughout the country. For me, relocating beyond NYC was something I was willing to do so I did not limit myself to those working in Manhattan, for instance. DO NOT ask them for a job or even for an interview! Another pet pieve! This puts them in an uncomfortable situation and places them on the spot. Instead approach your conversation as....how can I convey how I can add value to this firm? Here is a sample of my conversation with an investment banker alum:</p>
<p>"Hello, Mr./Ms. X: My name is Y and I am calling from Z college. Did I catch you at an okay time." (Always ask that...it shows respect for their time, which is always hard to come by!)</p>
<p>"Great. I just wanted to let you know that I will be graduating in May/June next year and have a sincere interest in investment banking and especially with your firm. Can you answer some questions for me that I had a hard time finding through my independent research, or is there somebody within your department/division you could refer me to?" (Make sure you truly have questions...good questions!)</p>
<p>At the end:</p>
<p>"Thank you again for your time. (Some other salutation and close). I just want to reinforce to you that this is a career move I am completely committed to and the information you provided me is invaluable." (Send a thank-you note by e-mail. A card by mail will likely not reach them. Also, make sure it is error-proof! Any good analyst will not have mistakes. Do not mess this crucial step up.)</p>
<p>Leave room for you to follow-up. For example, if the conversation went well I would say:</p>
<p>"By the way, I applied for X and Y at your bank through the career portion of the corporate website. Would it be possible to send you a copy of my resume to critique and possibly pass on to the necessary party?" (Back-door entry is almost necessary. One candidate at my final round actually walked into Citigroup's office, immediately saw someone he/she knew, and hugged that person as if they were best friends forever! I would say 90%+ of the people getting i-banking jobs have inside contacts they have utilized. Maybe they all did! I did!)</p>
<p>Again good luck. If you have any further questions please send it to me by private message. I will be too busy in the coming weeks to respond on this site, but I certainly enjoyed responding to those of you who posted earlier. Let me just say that you guys are on the right track for seeking more information. The major issue is sifting through credible/uncredible information and applying it directly to your situation. </p>
<p>By the way, I did not work at an investment bank prior to joining Citigroup full-time. It helps if you did in order to get the interview (or maybe a full-time offer that same summer, which is even better!). But I did work in the financial industry with both regional and global companies. Make sure you have relevant work experience. It is just as important, if not slightly more, than your grades. Unfortunately, investment banks are like top Ivy League colleges. They have enough candidates apply that they can essentially chose those to pursue those people who have very few or no flaw (on paper). Do yourself a favor, if you can, and have strong grades, relevant work experience, demonstrated leadership activities, possibly sports involvement or some other team-driven involvement, and MAJOR IN ECONOMICS/FINANCE!!!</p>
<p>Peace.</p>
<p>Sorry. The link is <a href="http://www.ibinterviews.com%5B/url%5D">www.ibinterviews.com</a>.</p>
<p>Have a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannuka, Happy Kwanzaa, and whatever else you all are celebrating (if anything). </p>
<p>P.S. Hopefully those of you who are college seniors got an offer by now. Here is a quick overview of the timeline for both full-time hires and interns at investment banks.</p>
<p>Full time: Resume's are sent in September. Interviews begin in October. Recruiting is over by late November. It is quick! quick! quick! Start early to be better prepared for the courseload/job search balance. Professors do not care if you have a Superday coming up. They still will give you mind-nummingly boring homework despite the fact. Take it like a man (or woman- I don't want to be gender bias!) If you get the job just smile at them like the joker because, unless they are a Nobel lauret, you will be making more money than they are at the bottom of your industry than most professors at the top of theirs. (Borrowed from Liars Poker). Just make sure money isn't your only reason for getting into this!!!</p>
<p>Interns: Resumes by January. Interviews in February. Offers by March. You could make $10K before taxes over the summer between your junior and senior year. Furthermore, the experience often leads to a full-time offer from your employer as well as competitors! It is great to be sought after by such competitive firms. Obviously, then, landing an intership is just about as hard as a full-time offer so work just as hard!</p>
<p>Adios.</p>
<p>Dear citi_banker:</p>
<p>Thank you so much for your invaluable responses and good luck.</p>
<p>Sincerely</p>
<p>Y"H"X</p>
<p>"Barbarians at the Gates" also shows the seedy side of I-banking. While there is a need for financing large corporate deals the vast majority of them are basically unsound and done to generate fees. This has ruined many a company and hurt US growth.
I have worked on several deals with IBs and their analysis was way overly optimistic in every case. The buyers of the security got screwed.</p>
<p>good post, some really good and relevant info</p>
<p>This thread was a really good read, very thoughtful and informative posts by citi_banker.</p>
<p>Could you now disclose the details you couldnt before-hand due to the confidentiality reasons? ie what school you go to, your GPA, etc</p>
<p>Wow, very nice post.</p>
<p>I'm probably going to go into Accounting, which I have taken for 2 years in HS already, but I have no idea what type of accounting I would go into. Should be interesting finding a job.</p>
<p>BTW...Do you have any idea how the recruiting is at University of Illinois-Urbana/Champaign or University of Wisconsin-Madison? I will be going to one of those 2 schools.</p>
<p>Hey, thanks for taking time out to post such an informative post.</p>