<p>curiousmother,</p>
<p>And who's to say that that's what the student actually does? He may just be riling people up on the intarwebs. </p>
<p>Again, let's say that that guy actually exists and does what he says. So what? Just avoid him like you'd avoid him in real life. You're going to meet idiots everywhere. Best solution? Avoid them.</p>
<p>MKM, I think that people normally shower in the bathroom and return to their room to get dressed, comb hair, put on makeup, etc. It sounds like at your son's school people use the bathrooms more as locker rooms, which may be the set up there. I haven't seen that. </p>
<p>Curiousmother, your daughter can't avoid a school just because immoral people may go there. This was one account by one young man who is likely trying to sound manly and tough. It does not define the school. There are surely immoral people at her current high school and in her activities, and there will be immoral people throughout in her future appartment building, office, etc. It is not the school.</p>
<p>Thank you for all the wonderful insights...I agree with the last few postings saying that there's all kinds of people everywhere.</p>
<p>A few of you seem to think that the word "morality" is a bad word and people will shun you if you have an opinion about certain behaviors. I don't think anyone has the right to judge others, but one can have opinions about certain actions. If not, we cannot change the world for the better.</p>
<p>I guess I just want everyone to treat their neighbor (and my daughter) with respect. And since when is that a conservative point of view?</p>
<p>curiousmother,</p>
<p>I agree with you. But then I don't understand what you're trying to get at? It seems to me that the overwhelming opinion is that if you want to avoid trouble, you can. If that's the case, then what's the issue? I'm curious if what's said mollifies you, then are you still worried?</p>
<p>I agree that there are folks who enjoy bragging about real or imagined "masculinity" or otherwise on whatever forum they can muster. There always will be & hopefully we have raised our kids to know how to deal with these types of folks when they are encountered (as there surely will be encounters). As has been said, most of us have a pretty decent (at least in our minds) moral compas & hope we have instilled same in our kiddos so they will be able to handle the situations they find themselves in just fine.</p>
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<p>Oh, it would affect ME. But, well, I've known some people with pretty wild social lives in college. Some of them were miserable inside and trying to cover it up; but others, I think, really were happiest living that way, at least at that age. It didn't make me think that they were unkind to people in general and that they would not be good friends to me.</p>
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<p>I guess I just want everyone to treat their neighbor (and my daughter) with respect. And since when is that a conservative point of view?</p>
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<p>Wanting a culture of respect is not conservative, but the types of activities that constitute disrespect in your book might be. If you view casual sex between consenting adults as mutually disrespectful, I'd call that a conservative viewpoint.</p>
<p>
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A few of you seem to think that the word "morality" is a bad word and people will shun you if you have an opinion about certain behaviors.
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</p>
<p>I don't think any of us expressed the opinion that "morality" was a bad word. Or that people will shun someone for having an opinion. But when I look back at your original post, I see that you decry "the lack of moral values on college campuses (kids getting wasted, doing drugs, using eachother for sexual pleasure)." That statement sets the tone of your post, and that tone is what I'm responding to. Intended or not, your choice of wording reflects views of the Christian right, which are not necessarily shared by everyone on CC.</p>
<p>If you believe that sex, drugs, and alcohol bespeak a "lack of moral values," you are doing more than expressing an opinion. You are trying to define morality -- not your own personal moral values, but MORALITY. That touches a nerve. It does indeed sound judgmental.</p>
<p>As parents I'm sure we'd agree that we'd like our kids to use common sense and moderation in their lives, at least to the extent of being safe and not harming others. Getting wasted isn't a real smart activity, nor is unprotected sex; it's kinda' like climbing up the slide when the playground supervisor isn't watching and then getting boots in the teeth. But what has that to do with moral values?</p>
<p>Please forgive me if this post sounds a little cold. My heart and my mind are with the world's victims of war, deceit, indifference, ignorance, ... immorality.</p>
<p>There is personal morality and social morality. One does not obviate the other.</p>
<p>Behavior in college is not necessarily indicative of how your later life will be assuming you live through it. A good friend was well known as very promiscuous and an out of control partier in her college years. She's now a pillar of the community, happily married with well adjusted teens.</p>
<p>barrons, can you extend that a bit? I googled "personal morality" and found 230,000 hits, but nothing that looked like consensus. Is there a "personal morality" that applies here? What does it look like?</p>
<p>celloguy,
I see where you are coming from...In the grand scheme of things, is sexual promiscuity so bad? NO, and I'm sure there are sexually promiscuous people who are a lot better people than those who claim to take the high road and look their noses down at them.
However, I still argue that sexual promiscuity without any emotional ties (and without thinking about how it will affect the other person involved) is selfish, and many of the major world problems (wars, famine, ignorance, etc.) stem from selfishness. So why can't we start with the little things?
I'm all for peace, love and understanding, not, let me have my pleasure now (sex, drugs and excessive drinking), forget the rest. </p>
<p>I don't like the "it's all about me" attitude that seems to be prevelent in our society (young and old).</p>
<p>curious mother, amen.</p>
<p>(kids getting wasted, doing drugs, using eachother for sexual pleasure) --
is there a question whether those things are objectively wrong or not? I'm not a Christian, so my values aren't based on the Bible, but I think that objectively getting wasted (i.e., losing control of one's faculties) and doing drugs (which not only affects your behavior, your health, and your mind, but is against he law) are poor choices. It does concern me that kids on campus may be wasting valuable time getting out of their heads instead of expanding them. Numbing feelings instead of experiencing them. As for "using each other for sexual pleasure", again I think that without Christian Bible-thumping we could still agree that we don't want our kids having indiscriminate sex when they may not be prepared for the emotional toll and the potential for physical risk. Of course, if you really want to discuss the lack of morality on campus we should bring in cheating, plagiarism and theft of intellectual property. What can we do about all this? Nothing once they get to college. The time to teach them values is when they're in your home. If you've done a good job they should be able to make it through those four years relatively unscathed.</p>
<p>^Agreed completely.</p>
<p>I'm honestly quite shocked by this thread. I think when it comes to their own sons and daughters, a lot of these parents would have different opinions, curiousmother. People are getting hung up on the word "morality". It's not Bible-thumping to know that there's healthier, more respectful alternatives to casual sex, doing drugs, and underage drinking.</p>
<p>It's no wonder people can't fathom secular morality. I'm not Christian, but for chrissakes, I still want to hold myself to some standards, including seeking out meaningful relationships with people who care about and love me, staying healthy, and obeying the law.</p>
<p>And this is a 17 year old, liberal, rock-club enthusiast homosexual speaking. Hah. I like to think when/if I have kids, they'll know I don't condone the kind of activity curiousmother is decrying.</p>
<p>Thank you BurnThis...You stated my thoughts very eloquently! Now it't time for me to do my job at home before it's too late.</p>
<p>CelloGuy, thank you for humoring me for a while!</p>
<p>Everyone else, I appreciate all your insights!</p>
<p>Congratulations Groovinhard for sticking to your high moral standards...I know it cannot be easy!</p>
<p>Curiousmother, again you are entitled to your opinions, but whether you like it or not there are some good reasons/benefits to individuals who engage in sex without emotional commitment -- it can be better than wallowing in self-pity and solititude (which is why casual sex often takes place when one of the partners is on the rebound from a painful breakup of a serious relationship -- and that can be a better choice than rushing headlong into another bad relationship). </p>
<p>I'm not advocating it -- just pointing out that sometimes the casual sex is a better choice than making a commitment, such as early marriage, that the individual is not emotionally or financially ready to undertake. I'd rather see my daughter having casual sex than being stuck in a relationship with an abusive and controlling male. Fortunately I don't have to see either -- her boyfriend is a really sweet and gentle kid who absolutely adores her -- but the point is that there can be plenty of "disrespect" among partners in a long-term relationship who mistake jealousy and controlling behavior for love. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that a lot of sex among college-age men & women is NOT entirely casual, but rather is a pattern of serial short-term relationships. In other words, it is not necessarily an unfeeling or uncaring partner -- it can be just a budding relationship that doesn't work out between two people who are still growing and exploring. </p>
<p>And as others have mentioned, most of what you see posted on internet blogs and web pages has very little bearing on reality. The kids who are boasting of their sexual conquests usually aren't the ones who are actually having much sex.</p>
<p>S1 attended a LAC that is arguably one of the most "liberal" both politically and socially. Were there naked parties? Sure, plenty, and some made the national newspapers. Was there drugs? Yes, but no more than when I was in college. Was there sexual promiscuity? Yes, but again, I came of age during the Sexual Revolution. </p>
<p>S1 did not do drugs, drink, run around naked. I did not ask about his sex life, but I doubt very much he was promiscuous. He shared a coed bathroom and reported that he never saw a woman either in the bathroom or going from or to the bathroom. Part of it must have to do with the different hours college kids keep. He shrugged off the obscene chalkings and other objectionable expressions. </p>
<p>Anyway, S1 came out more or less as he went in: with his personal and social values intact. He'd attended a school that prized diversity and tolerance (it was the subject of his essay) and the values he learned there and at home did not change. He got a great education.</p>
<p>Calmom and Marite:
Points well taken. Thank you.</p>
<p>Brown got a lot of press last year because of a naked party that made it onto Fox news. I was pretty shocked by reports of what was happening there -- but also realized that not every Brown student was at that party.</p>
<p>I don't think Brown is that much different from a lot of other colleges. There is drinking, binge drinking, pregaming, hooking up, casual sex, etc., on just about every campus. There may be some gradations, but excepting very religious schools, this activity does seem prevalent. </p>
<p>When I was in college, I saw things that could be considered immoral. I came to college with my own values, and watching my fellow students' behavior helped me test these values, and shape my own moral beliefs. I also learned not to judge people based on their sexual activities in college (like Primetimemom, one of my close friends was also promiscuous, and is now a minister). </p>
<p>I've tried to pass my values along to my daughter. Her job, as a teenager and young adult, is to question them, to test them, to try on other ones to see how they fit, so she can develop her own value set. I hope she makes the right judgments; so far she has. She's already been in situations where she's seen friends and schoolmates do questionable things, and learned from those situations. No matter where she goes to college, she will have to deal with drinking and hooking up, and she will watch and hear from other people who have different values than she does. Sometimes, kids who brag about their promiscuity and drinking are testing their own boundaries, figuring out themselves just who they are and what they want to be. Those lessons are just as important as physics and history, in my mind.</p>