More reality/upset son

Parents Forum
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<p>“NSMom…I think my son takes the academics for granted. That is, being in a school which has a strong reputation, he assumes that he will find it elsewhere. The idea that maybe some schools have better academics is only represented (I think) by his perceptions of where “the kids that aren’t like me” might go. I think he perceives that the courses he takes in colleges will be like his CTY courses. And then, beyond that, he wants a certain college experience. I had that college experience (big, “rah rah” schools) and I loved it. I think that is where he will ultimately thrive.”</p>

<p>He may want to rethink, then, whether he wants to go to a large state school because from what I’ve seen (Older S – the dropout – was in the honors program of a large 2nd tier state school, and I’ve taken classes for fun at a large public), those classes aren’t at all like CTY.</p>

<p>When taking French classes for fun at one of the top publics in my state, I was surprised that the students were indifferent and were even delighted when the instructor decided to have the class meet only 4 days a week instead of the 5 days that it was scheduled to meet. Even in a more advanced class, when the instructor provided challenging material, the students complained, and the instructor backed off. </p>

<p>S was in an IB program, and got the IB diploma, so he was used to being in a rigorous program. He complained that his honors English class at U Minn. was doing things he did in his IB program junior year. That was more reason why he decided that college was worthless. He loves to learn, and continues to read extensively and study extensively on his own, but sees no need to return to college – definitely not what I had wanted him to conclude after attending college!</p>

<p>Younger S, who attended CTY and TIP – is at a 2nd tier LAC, and is having experiences similar to what he had at CTY/TIP. That S had gone to a summer program at U Wisconsin, and decided not to apply there because he didn’t like how the U Wis. students whom he met tried to convince him to apply by talking only about the partying and sports. I’m not suggesting that all U Wis. students are like that. However, the students whom he met were selected by the college to make presentations to students in their summer program, so presumably these were students whom the college was proud of.</p>

<p>With a 3.2, despite having excellent scores, I think your son would be unlikely to get into top 50 schools, including the public universities like Wisconsin, Florida, Virginia, UCLA, and Michigan that are in the top 50, which raises the chances that his college experience might end up being like my older S’s. If he is stimulated by being around lots of peers who are smart and passionate about learning, he may not be motivated to do his academics if he’s surrounded by peers who are in college to get a credential to help them make money, and whose passion for college is based on enjoying sports and extracurriculars.</p>

<p>I think I remember your saying that you’ll require your son to maintain a 2.0 in college for you to pay for his education. I think it’s great that you’re setting a standard for him to maintain to get your support. Since he’s such a bright guy and is likely to be attending a school where he could get very high grades, I suggest that you raise what you expect of him to a 3.0. My guess is that if he loves college – even if it’s mainly the sports that he loves – he’ll work just hard enough to maintain your financial support, and his having a 3.0 would offer more post graduation options than he’ll have with just a 2.0.</p>

<p>As always, wishing you and your son the best. While I’m describing worst case scenarios, I truly hope that your S’s outlook is better than what I’ve presented.</p>

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<p>Oh gosh no…that wasn’t me talking about a 2.0. I would never expect my son to only have a 2.0 in college. After all, we’re Jewish…lol!! (This is a joke…sort of…)</p>

<p>I fully expect him to do what I did…had fun, socialized and partied in high school, got serious in college, and graduated with close to 4.0 average. (And I didn’t play a 25-30 hour per week sport in high school.) And P.S…I liked being around the kids in college who had lower averages…I liked being “the smart one” after spending years being the one who didn’t do so well! (Although, interestingly, my son has a reputation for being “the smart one” right now even though his GPA is a 3.2…probably based on the things he says in class and I guess in speeches he has to make. I’m not actually sure kids know what his GPA actually is… In fact, he may be a little embarrassed that they will find out once he gets into college that he didn’t do well enough to make it into certain ones.)</p>

<p>Maybe I’m deluding myself, and I guess we will only know when he gets there. But I remember very clearly when the light bulb went off for me, and I see a very similar pattern here. </p>

<p>I do have a neighbor who has a son who currently has a 2.1 average in high school, yet scored 2300 on the SATs. He doesn’t play sports, no ECs, sort of a loner and keeps to himself. It’s a different kind of kid for sure.</p>

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<p>NSM, I know what you are saying, but I don’t see this as the typical lackadaisical kid situation. This is a kid with plenty of focused energy: it’s just that he is directing it at student government, a job and sports, not at academics.</p>

<p>He is who he is: a bright, socially adept, hardworking, pragmatic kind of kid. As a person with an intellectual bent, it’s hard to see a kid with real academic potential not explore it to the fullest, but remember everything else he’s doing. He’s not a slacker.</p>

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<p>I’ve been called far worse…I’m glad you like my story.</p>

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<p>Interesting, kids at my oldest’s high school used to make comments to me like “he’s so smart” and I would just scratch my head because he didn’t get straight As. But kids are very perceptive and can differentiate between the kids with thinking skills and the kids who just study for the test. Even then those kids categorize themselves into the smart kids, the braniac kids, the band kids…ask your kids, it’s actually kind of a fascinating sociological conversation. It’s alittle different than when I was in high school taking the college prep curriculum and you were either brainy, freaky or a jock. Also kids don’t really know what each other’s actual GPAs are so once you segment out the kids taking the hard classes, they generally know each other and how they articulate in class, but they may not actually know how they do individually on tests. Generally if they discuss the SATs or ACTs at all they might know each other scores, but that doesn’t give them context to GPAs. Every year there are those little surprises in the senior scholars. I always get a kick out of the stealth kids! I’m a firm believer that once you segment out the kids that are tracking through the rigorous courses pretty much all those kids have the potential to be successful in college the Bs and As alike. The other stuff, social skills, leadership skills and athletic skills just add flavor to the soup and any one of those skills individually is enough to round out the package.</p>

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<p>There were parents who were relieved when they heard S1’s GPA. They said it gave them hope for their own dreamer sons! S1 is definitely the thinker-type. Had fabulous scores, making sure he got the job done in easy/uninteresting (to him) classes. Still is that way…</p>

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Guilty as charged, and you’re right we don’t know if he’s recruitable. I think you’ve misunderstood my point. I have great respect for athletes and appreciate the time and energy that they put into their sports. The OP’s son has made a huge commitment to his sport in high school, maybe even to the detriment of his GPA. It seems a shame not to use this accomplishment to help him gain admittance to a college that would satisfy his intellectual needs as well. </p>

<p>Big universities can be overwhelming for non-assertive kids. I know, I graduated from this kid’s number one choice and although I (modestly) know I was a smart as any of them, at age 17 I lacked the drive and initiative required to take advantage of one tenth of the academic opportunities offered.</p>

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<p>" This is a kid with plenty of focused energy: it’s just that he is directing it at student government, a job and sports, not at academics."</p>

<p>Not to belabor the point, and with sincere hopes that your S isn’t like mine, my older S had lot of focused energy, too, that he directed toward journalism – being a paid weekly freelancer for 3 of the state’s largest newspapers while also volunteering as a section editor, photographer, and writer for a community weekly that he also had put on the web. When it came to his passion for journalism, he could hold his own with people a decade older than he was, including in terms of making deadlines and handling various other responsibilities. </p>

<p>In college, he continued to excel in journalism – as a job or EC. He just didn’t bother to apply himself at all to his courses – including his journalism course! He thought his coursework was a waste of time. </p>

<p>Despite being smart, intellectual, an avid reader, a responsible job holder, and an excellent writer, he had never liked school, something that my H and I had never grasped, though S had often expressed his dislike of school. H and I just couldn’t imagine that someone who read avidly and wrote avidly for fun didn’t like school at all and would be so indifferent to his college education that he would flunk out and not mind flunking out.</p>

<p>In college, S was highly responsible at his extracurricular activity of journalism and was very involved in attending sports games with friends and with partying, but didn’t bother at all with the main focus of college: his academics.</p>

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<p>FWIW, my S also had a miserable time with the HS college counselor who opined that S had to set his expectations very low. He had excellent test scores (nearly perfect) but was about the middle of his class grade-wise. He had been the counselor for 3 decades and was VERY depressing. Fortunately, he was retiring and the new CC encouraged S to “cast a wide net” and thought he had an excellent chance at some schools, especially if he had a great 2nd semester junior & senior year. He worked hard with the new CC & got into many of the schools he wanted to attend WITH significant merit aid.</p>

<p>D was given gloomy predictions, even from the new college counselor (CC) about her options when she was forced to leave HS after junior year. Her GPA was quite bad (lots of Cs & worse because of chronic health issues and extended absences). She took the GED & started ComC instead of senior year in HS. She was amazed that all her friends & faculty who came to know her in HS & ComC thought she was brilliant even tho her grades in HS didn’t reflect it. Against the advice of the HS CC, during her 1st year at ComC, she applied to transfer to a selective private U (her one & only college app) & to the shock of the HS CC, she was accepted as a transfer, where she is currently a happy sophomore.</p>

<p>My kids’ stories is just to show that there are many ways for kids to achieve their dreams. While realism is good & having the kids understand that grades DO matter, Us do understand that sometimes kids (especially males) sometimes take a while to “get it” that grades matter. It would be good to encourage your S to show a significant improvement in grades & “cast a wide net,” especially for schools known to work with kids showing significant improvement. You can also explain to him that if he doesn’t get in initially, there are paths he can pursue to get there as a transfer, including starting & having a stellar ComC experience.</p>

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<p>I was going to put in a plug for UDel as well, but northeastmom beat me to it. OOS is getting harder, but the SAT scores are well above average and the GPA, while on the low end, is still in range. When I see that the paid counselor mentioned Emory and Tulane (reaches, in my opinion) while the the guidance counselor mentioned IU and UMAss (very good suggestions) – I don’t think you’re getting value for your dollar. Even if the GC can be hard to reach, I might think about making an extra effort to keep talking to her and ditching the paid counselor.</p>

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<p>I have known several very bright kids who goofed their way through high school, and then, when they were 19-20, their brains woke up and became really amazing students. One boy I know was a C student id high school and now has a science doctorate and a law degree!</p>

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<p>Endicott, I met a young man with a similar story. HS was a bit of a bore for him and his grades were less than great. College (a small private) was more of a joy for him and he went on to get his PhD–now he’s a college professor and researcher.</p>

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<p>I agree that many kids are just not “in the groove” for higher education when they are 18ish. This can change as they get older and become more focused on things that require more education. It’s not a good thing to try to force feed someone who is full.</p>

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<p>Endicott your post made my day. I have a grossly underperforming 16 year old kid who, according to every kind of test he’s ever taken, should be doing much much better in school. I live for the day his brain wakes up and only hope it does before it’s too late - or before my demise ;)</p>