More reality/upset son

Parents Forum
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<p>I’m with the dump the college counselor sentiment. The counselor could have given realistic situation without being so harsh. And, if this counselor is in the Northeast, should have known more about UMass.</p>

<p>I also am with the posters who suggest that, at his point, it’s not likely your son is going to make significant changes to his academic record and experience. A course here and there for senior year might help a little…but…he needs to work with what he’s got – and continue with the dedication that he’s given to football, student government and his job. </p>

<p>Your child wants to go to a large state school with big time sports. He’s got very good standardized test scores and slightly above average grades. If you really want to work with a college counselor, let them know these facts and see if they can make additional realistic suggestions — although — you’re likely to continue getting them here!</p>

<p>Here are the ACC schools: Boston College, Clemson, Duke, Florida State , Georgia Tech,
Maryland , Miami, North Carolina, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech , Wake Forest. Alll have good sports teams. Some are extremely hard to get into, but a couple are likely to be matches for your son.</p>

<p>Here are the Big East schools:Cincinnati, Connecticut, DePaul, Georgetown, Louisville,
Marquette, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Providence, Rutgers, St. John’s, Seton Hall, USF, Syracuse, Villanova, West Virginia. Just about all have good basketball teams, and some have good football teams. A couple of reaches, and quite a few matches and safeties.</p>

<p>Big 10: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Northwestern, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Wisconsin. For the most part, great sports and school spirit. Another list with a few reaches but also some matches.</p>

<p>You can go through all of the big athletic conferences, depending on how far away your son wants to go. Pac 10, SEC, etc. Most are large state schools where your S will get a very good education and will be able to have the type of college experience he is looking for. Let him reach for Michigan, Penn State and Maryland…and get him to also send in early applications to match/safety schools that he would like to go to and can afford to go to…that have rolling admissions. He’ll get a few of those acceptances early…and it will make the rest of senior year much more tolerable!</p>

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<p>If he really wants a big state school, and he gets into one, he might not fail–it might inspire him, too. Good luck to you and him! I wouldn’t hire the counselor, either. It’s good that she got you talking, but she sounds too harsh, and she also sounds as if she has her own agenda.</p>

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<p><q>Northstarmom…I hear what you are saying. But what can I do for a kid that loves to watch sports and wants to go to a school where there are games to go to and lots to do (including Intramural sports/fraternities/other activities)? My husband went to an Ivy…not tiny but much smaller than what we are looking at I guess. He says that there was plenty of partying, and if you stopped going to class, no one was going to call you to find out where you were. Maybe at really small colleges they might nurture more…but I don’t see my son being happy at all in a tiny environment. It is a worry…but at the same time, I don’t know what a good solution would be. After seeing Penn State, he thought UConn seemed too small!</q></p>

<p>RTR</p>

<p>We have given birth to the same child. Your son has lots of options especially if he is willing to be open minded about different parts of the country. Some of those options (South Carolina and Alabama come to mind) might even give him money.</p>

<p>My son has a higher GPA than yours but his first attempt at the SAT wasn’t as high as your son. He will retake it and we will see what happens there. Even with better stats, we have been discussing the need to identify lots of schools that are acceptable because next year is going to be a real crap shot as far as out of state (and even in state) schools.</p>

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<p>My d wanted a big state school (we are in Massachusetts) and she is headed off to University of South Carolina in the fall.</p>

<p>Your son should definitely check it out – it might be just the ticket. (It’s also much more sports oriented than UMass…)</p>

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<p>RTR, No way is a 3.2 GPA + good scores, strong recs, consistent ECs (including leadership) a disaster at admissions. There are plenty of good colleges and universities that would be possibles. </p>

<p>Put the counselor on hold for now. After your son (and you) have educated yourselves you can decide if you want/need to pay an outsider. (If you do you might look at the counselors who run College Confidential.)</p>

<p>Fasten your seatbelt: the whole college search/application/acceptance process is a roller coaster of emotions. The student and family have to be guardedly optimistic and reasonably pessimistic. That’s why the reach/match/safety technique has maintained so much credibility. </p>

<p>You know your boy. You say he is “incredibly bright” but he’s getting more B’s than A’s. He needs to take the reason for this discrepancy into account in choosing his colleges. For example, is it boredom? immaturity? too much time spent on ECs and job? just not academically inclined? None of these issues is a death-knell for a good college experience, but he may want tailor his list based on the learning style of the individual college. He may even want to consider a gap year to add some gravitas to his personality.</p>

<p>There are several small liberal arts colleges at which he could be recruited for football. You say this is not his gameplan, but maybe he should research a little deeper before dismissing. This approach could serve a dual purpose of landing him in an intellectually stimulating environment with more academic oversight than he would get at a big U.
Bentley, Gettysburg, Bucknell, Furman come to mind. There are others.</p>

<p>You don’t mention finances, which could have a big impact on his list – positive or negative. If you don’t need financial aid your son will may an advantage. </p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how he does.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom, </p>

<p>You have two data points. It’s great that you share your experience with your two data points, but no one else has the same data points – either one of them – that you have. You seem to assume that unless someone does what you did with your second son that a kid will have an experience like your first son’s. </p>

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</p>

<p>“Not that many CC parents take this path.”</p>

<p>Doesn’t appear that way to me, at all, and I’ve had to bite my fingers to not comment further on your statement.</p>

<p>RTR, </p>

<p>Great news on the AP Stats!</p>

<p>Your kid’s life appears well-balanced to me; kudos to him for figuring out how to live a well-balanced life so early!</p>

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<p>The problem isn’t that RTR’s son isn’t smart or motivated, it’s that the results he’s posted are in conflict with the places he wanted to attend. His expectations were incongruous with his performance. </p>

<p>RTR said, “I hear what you are saying. But what can I do for a kid that loves to watch sports and wants to go to a school where there are games to go to and lots to do (including Intramural sports/fraternities/other activities)?”</p>

<p>Nowhere in that statement is there any discussion of academics. If you’re choosing colleges based on watching big time athletics that’s a very different question that choosing one based on academics. </p>

<p>RTR’s son wants to go to school for the full collegiate experience. GREAT!!! But the schools on his original list want and expect a certain academic commitment. There are plenty of big time schools out there, many mentioned here, that will give him the sports experience he wants, provide him a challenging in-class environment AND would love to have him as a student.</p>

<p>Look at any of the Big 10 schools, (except Michigan, Northwestern or Wisconsin), any of the PAC 10, (except UCLA or Cal-Berkeley), or any of the big time sports conferences, except for one or two of the top academic schools.</p>

<p>I’ll say it again, that blunt counselor did you a favor, it’s better to adjust your list now than watch the rejections pile up later.</p>

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<p>“There are several small liberal arts colleges at which he could be recruited for football. You say this is not his gameplan, but maybe he should research a little deeper before dismissing. This approach could serve a dual purpose of landing him in an intellectually stimulating environment with more academic oversight than he would get at a big U.
Bentley, Gettysburg, Bucknell, Furman come to mind. There are others.”</p>

<p>Spoken like a parent who has never been through the recruiting process and does not have a child who plays college sports. Even assuming that the boy wanted to play football in college (a huge commitment at any level), which he doesn’t, there is no indication that he is good enough to be a recruitable athlete even at Division III (Gettysburg), let alone Division II (Bentley) or Division I-AA (Bucknell or Furman).</p>

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<p>“I hear what you are saying. But what can I do for a kid that loves to watch sports and wants to go to a school where there are games to go to and lots to do (including Intramural sports/fraternities/other activities)?”</p>

<p>Nowhere in that statement is there any discussion of academics. If you’re choosing colleges based on watching big time athletics that’s a very different question that choosing one based on academics. "</p>

<p>The fact that your S doesn’t seem to be including academics in what he’s considering is a big red flag. I’m saying this as a mom who has BTDT when it comes to this situation. Older S said he wanted to go to college. However, he was a high scoring, mediocre grade student, and what he was looking for in a college was: big city, sports he enjoyed watching, and big classes so professors wouldn’t “bother” him.</p>

<p>I ended up doing all of the work of finding colleges that met S’s desires. S didn’t even bother to open the mail from colleges that were trying to attract him. With his approval, I opened the mail, screened out the ones that didn’t meet his criteria, and then showed him the rest, and he selected where to apply.</p>

<p>S got his apps in with me literally standing over him making sure he got things in on time. He got his first acceptance in Oct., his safety, which was his second choice college. He then basically checked out of studying, even told teachers he didn’t need to do homework because “I’ve been accepted to college”</p>

<p>When his quarterly grades were horrendous – Ds, Fs – H and I set up a meeting with all of S’s teachers. S skipped the meeting, said he didn’t realize he needed to be there!</p>

<p>He brought his grades up with H and me breathing down his back, and he managed to graduate from h.s. and happily go to college where he thoroughly enjoyed the big city, watching sports, doing fun ECs, but didn’t go to class. His fall semester gpa was below 1.0. </p>

<p>With S’s approval, H flew to meet with S and his advisor, who went out of her way to provide S – one of their top freshmen (based on his scores) with a schedule that included courses and professors she thought he’d love. His second semester grades were even worse.</p>

<p>If I could do things over, I would have let S be responsible for choosing colleges to apply to and getting his apps in on time. I would have left his senior year grades totally in his hands. If he hadn’t gotten around to applying or if he had gotten horrible grades, that would have kept him home for a gap year, providing him with the time he needed to mature and to work a job so that he figured out if he was willing to do the hard work that college required.</p>

<p>I hope my experience helps you, and I wish you and your family the best.</p>

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<p>My oldest D and her friends have just recently finished all the applying and accepting and rejections process. All of them officially have thier hats and sweatshirts. And, here is the one thing I really took away from the whole process: The process works. The schools really do know what they are doing and who they are accepting. I mean, I’ve seen on CC that there are kids who are wildly disappointed, but I haven’t seen this around here.</p>

<p>Some of these kids, last year, started the visit process. Then, by the start of this year, they began to apply. All of them are very different with different personalities and different interests–future schools range from Harvard to Juliard to UMiami to OOS to Instate to Smith to Bennington. Wildly different schools, wildly different kids. Not one of them is a shock. They all really “fit.” Really well. I’m excited for all these kids for all sorts of different reasons, ranging from finding a cure to cancer to being the exact person you want to have help you choose the right dress for a party. Really the process works.</p>

<p>Your son sounds like an all-around great kid. I think it’s insane to consider a 3.2 gpa some sort of “issue” or a sign that he will “fail.” It is, most likely, a sign that he will have a 3.2 gpa at whatever college is excited to have him. And one or more will be thrilled. I really wouldn’t worry, is what I’m saying, as long as you can afford the cost of the schools–which seems to be the REAL area of disappointment around here, more than anything else.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and your son. By this time next year he’ll be watching a new team on ESPN U, and he won’t even remember what that ridiculous Educational Consultant looked like.</p>

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<p>Just to add my two cents here: my daughter has a 3.1 GPA and a 27 ACT and was accepted out of state to Penn State and to Syracuse and to George Washington University and to Auburn and University of Alabama.</p>

<p>She, like your son, is a 4 year Varsity athlete (but was not recruited) and played the clarinet in the school band for 2 years. I think your son just needs to get those applications in early and by applying to a wide range of school, he will have some choices. Our friends have had good experiences at U of South Carolina, by the way.</p>

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<p>Thanks again all.</p>

<p>NSMom…I think my son takes the academics for granted. That is, being in a school which has a strong reputation, he assumes that he will find it elsewhere. The idea that maybe some schools have better academics is only represented (I think) by his perceptions of where “the kids that aren’t like me” might go. I think he perceives that the courses he takes in colleges will be like his CTY courses. And then, beyond that, he wants a certain college experience. I had that college experience (big, “rah rah” schools) and I loved it. I think that is where he will ultimately thrive.</p>

<p>Mom4college…when was your daughter admitted? And where do you live? I wonder if geography plays a role too. (Lol…my son plays drums in the school band…had forgotten about that for awhile! Obviously he can’t play during football games.)</p>

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<p>mom4college, your post is really a good one. A couple months ago there was a young woman with very similar scores…maybe even a higher ACT. Her GC loved her and was very encouraging, her teachers loved her, she was clearly articulate and a nice writer, held down a part-time job, president of student organizations and she didn’t need any financial aid…she was getting lambasted and told not to bother applying to the big state schools, to get her rear in gear and get real, to go to CC and all sorts of nonsense. It made my stomach turn. She was just so clearly a well-rounded, engaging, solid B student taking plenty of AP tests and with really good standardized test scores. I felt really bad for her and still wonder what course she took.</p>

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<p>mom4college #131 - Thank you for posting. I was wondering about whether or not to quit this forum - that my S wasn’t good enough and I was actually starting to feel like he didn’t stand a chance…</p>

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<p>I am joining this thread late, and did not read all the previous messages, but something touched me about this situation, and triggered some memories about my son’s experience in high school and college that I thought I might share. At best, my son was an indifferent student in high school, and carefully calibrated his time and effort to do the minimum amount of work to get good, but not great, grades. To him, going to school was like going to work: he did it because he had to, not because he wanted to. Nevertheless, he is a very responsible and diligent student, and had almost perfect attendance in high school. His passion was and still is baseball and other sports. At the same time, he recognized that going to college would be a great opportunity to get out on his own, explore a new environment, and maybe, find some interesting people and experiences. He was confident that he could earn a degree, and that it would help him qualify for a good job. Educationally, I would describe him as a pragmatist.</p>

<p>He applied to a two selective schools in our area (Md. suburbs of DC), was ultimately rejected by both of them, but was accepted to Temple three weeks after applying, which was his first choice. </p>

<p>He is finishing his junior year, and is majoring in criminal justice. He is an officer in his fraternity. He has enthusiatically attended both Temple football games and basketball games. He plays intramural sports regularly. He lives off-campus, has gotten to know Philadelphia very well, and will be staying up there for the summer to take a couple of courses and work part-time. His grades and academic performance have been better in college than in high school. I don’t know exactly why, but perhaps he has found the coursework easier, more interesting, or more relevant or all three. He also talks very positively about some of his teachers, which never happened in high school. He has no patience for students who do not make the effort to attend classes or do the work necessary to get good grades. His fraternity puts a lot of peer pressure on their members to be responsible students.</p>

<p>Three years ago I never would have predicted this. Frankly, when he started at Temple, I was worried that he would be just another average student in a big city university with thousands of other average students. But I give him credit: he made his choice, he found his way around, took what was offered, and is making his own way. I always thought that college was all about the academics, but for some students like my son, that’s just not going to be the case. But he seems to be getting a quality education, and is developing some leadership skills as well. What more could a parent want?</p>

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<p>I loved your son’s story brainsprain…thank you so much for sharing it.</p>

<p>And I also got a chuckle when I was about to reply to you and abbreviate your name, calling you bs…</p>

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<p>RTR and lilmom –
These are really good threads you may want to check out:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/553940-b-student-parents-thread.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/553940-b-student-parents-thread.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/370873-brag-about-your-lesser-known-school.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/370873-brag-about-your-lesser-known-school.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>RTR – We did the StatsEval with CC’s Dave Berry two summers ago for S1 to make sure his list was appropriate for his stats. It costs $150, but may be a good reality check and the sort of feedback that may be useful for you and S. You can also get their services by the hour or the whole package – but we found the one-time with a follow-up was all we needed. We’ll do it again this summer for S2 (who also has a gap between scores and grades).</p>

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<p>One thing that I didn’t notice is any talk of financial aid. The one thing you should realize is that, at the level of school where he will be admitted, financial need is often considered-- particularly for privates-- and need may not be met, particularly for oos publics. </p>

<p>One of my kids had a slightly higher gpa, a slightly lower SAT, top school, lots of leadership and community service and is a urm. While she was accepted at some oos publics that didn’t meet need, she was not accepted at privates that were matches-- where need was considered. (We had substantial need.) That was before the economic crisis. She ended up choosing an oos flagship (she turned down merit at another oos flagship) and has now transferred to a top-25 univ but we had to <em>scramble</em> for the $ because no one came anywhere near meeting need.</p>

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<p>rtr…if your son did take the psat test this fall…and if he scored well…he could possibly receive recognition in national merit…and nmsf and nmf recognition possibly opens lots of doors (admissions). cutoff scores are usually in threads here on cc and you can see where his score falls.</p>

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<p>In that he is likely to be wrong unless he chooses a very intellectually-oriented school–which clearly he is not going to do.</p>

<p>That doesn’t mean that the classes might not be more to his taste than HS–but the classes will in general be pitched to the general caliber of student at the school. At least until he gets into upper-level seminars. On the other hand, if he goes to a large public, he may have access to graduate courses at some point.</p>