Fair enough, but I think most people would find this punishment to be excessive, especially if the school didn’t dish out similar punishment to the other kids who got caught.
That said, as other posters have mentioned, I think that it’s entirely possible that OP’s kid hasn’t told them the full story. If I were OP, I would sit my kid down and make sure he was telling me the full truth before I hired a lawyer.
Unless it’s the university of North Korea, I do think it’s excessive, and if they are going to have excessive rules, the students should be made aware. Apparently there is nothing in writing.
None of us know what went down- so maybe we should all hold off on the North Korea stuff until there are some facts.
I grew up in a college town. You cannot believe the property damage the neighborhood sustained at certain times of the year- random football game- groups of guys urinating on the swingsets in private backyards. Their football team lost- trash cans getting hurled from backyards into the streets. Their football team won- same deal. None of the “graceful” ways of dealing with it worked- blocking off streets to parking, yellow police tape on certain blocks to “suggest” not walking there towards the stadium, heavy policy presence (not campus police but town cops) on the blocks where the frats were situated. And lots and lots of community meetings and talking and being rational with the presidents of each of the frats, and talking and being rational with the head of campus security.
Broken windows of a private home on Halloween? “just a prank” except when it’s YOUR kids bedroom. Garden hoses stolen- what’s the big deal, car windshield smashed-- please understand private citizen- we lost the football championship. Car windshield smashed- please understand- we won the football championship.
What worked? citations for holding open cans of beer, citations to liquor stores selling to underage students, loss of liquor licenses to both the package stores and the bars after various “dragnets”. A few students suspended as a message to the students and the frats- breaking the law will not be tolerated. As in zero tolerance. That’s what worked.
None of us know the history of this campus and the town/gown relationship. For sure, if all this kid was doing was innocently standing on a public sidewalk, this seems excessive. But let’s wait for facts before calling it North Korea. Perhaps the kid had attended three different orientation meetings where the RA’s pleaded “do not violate the state/town liquor laws. We have a good relationship with the community now, based on a zero tolerance policy. You will be suspended. Do not drink in public if you are underage”. Perhaps the OP’s kid sassed the cop. Perhaps the OP’s kid was urinating on a fire hydrant.
We don’t know. Hugs to the OP and hopes they are getting some facts.
So we know you didn’t grow up in NYC near Columbia because in the 1980s they never won.
OP hang in there! Sounds like you are taking the correct measured steps and communicating with your kid. Talking to an attorney doesn’t mean you are obligated to going down a litigious path or even obligated to follow up.
While I agree in principal that if someone does something wrong they should accept their punishment it is important that the punishment fit the offense. It is ironic (I understand privacy laws) that the college won’t “deal” with you as parents when you are the one most directly impacted by the loss of tuition.
However, it is not clear what the lesson is or should be. The college is not helping matters by refusing to disclose what it considers the actual offense and the reason why the suspension was given for the actual offense. It makes it look like the college is levying selectively unfair punishment even if the actual facts were that the student committed a worse offense than initially described.
Big win against Princeton at homecoming in 1988!
Right, which is why, when the school denied the request of giving information in writing, a lawyer should be involved, instead of blindly accepting the punishment, since it’s a huge one.
I went to Vassar from 1984-1987. We had the same number of football wins as Columbia with no team😀
The underage student admitted to being in public holding an alcoholic beverage. We know the actual offense.
Everyone here wants to split hairs about the severity of the punishment. If you get a lawyer involved, think about this from the point of view of a young college student. He will see this as he did nothing seriously wrong, maybe nothing really wrong at all, and that his parents will always rescue him when he screws up.
I suggested that a lawyer help the family obtain the documentation…not to intervene and get the consequence changed. The student really should have this documentation, don’t you think @fladadK4Q ? The school isn’t providing it when asked.
Lawyers don’t only represent the innocent nor do the guilty forfeit all of their rights.
If he had injured himself while drinking under age would you also deny him access to health care so that he could learn his lesson having done something wrong?
I really don’t think the student committed a serious offense. A minor one, yes.
Not NYC. This sounds like a small town/small city type of reaction, not a major metro…but OP can correct me if I’m wrong. I was just pointing out that in a small city, maintaining good relationships between the college and the town is not just a matter of letting HS kids use the college library, or letting the town’s recreation league use the tennis courts over the summer (most colleges in small cities/towns do that as a matter of “nice neighbors”.) It’s also a big risk management issue, limiting the college’s liability to damage that its students might do in the surrounding areas. It’s a health and safety issue- little kids who grow up near a college campus have the right to walk to school on a Friday morning without stepping around piles of vomit from the Thursday night “pre-gaming”. Etc.
I’d be flabbergasted if the NYPD got involved in underage drinking at Columbia (or NYU, or Fordham, or Hunter, etc.) but if anyone here has first hand experience- I’d love to hear about it.
Given the widespread tolerance of underage alcohol possession around colleges, it is likely that there is more to the story, perhaps that the college saw an offense much worse than simple possession by an underage person. But the college refusing the disclose the details to the suspended student makes itself look like it is hiding something.
Worthy of a citation maybe - suspension is an over-reach.
Of course not.
I am aware of the function of lawyers. I am aware that it would be nice to have the paperwork that the university isn’t handing over. I too feel the punishment is harsh, and I don’t feel the university has done what they have should done in regards to communication. I’m with you guys on all of that.
Still, I wouldn’t hire an attorney, for the reasons I’ve previously stated. This child already felt entitled, or else he would not have been casually and publicly breaking the law. This child needs to feel this punishment. We all hear about the kids who get drunk and drive their car into a tree. I would want to do everything to keep that from being my child.
So make him financially responsible for the legal fees. That’d sure be punishment, regardless of the outcome.
What evidence?
I don’t think we have the entirety of the circumstances beyond he was one of several kids. We do have a letter of contrition (which although not advisable) certainly does suggest a degree of self awareness most adults lack.
My daughter’s friend at college, for whatever reason, got drunk and shot other students with a paintball gun, was arrested and wasn’t bailed out by his parents. They found home unconscious due to hanging the next day, was in a coma, and died. It makes me wonder if his parents were teaching him a lesson. Outdoor underage drinking is so common on college campuses, it’s the norm, besides being illegal. It’s like a step below littering.
I 100% wouldn’t bail out either of my sons if they did this.
I’m sure the student that is the focus of this thread felt the same way.