you beat me to it @sevmom !!!
@ucbalumnus Again we are only hearing the daughter talking here.
Why would this justify the father forcing her to choose his preference of what you consider two great schools, when his preference is the higher cost one that is likely to be problematic for both of them (debt that they may not be able to afford)?
This thread should win the daily award for “driving your blood pressure through the roof upon reading”.
What do you think the father would say differently to justify his trying to force her to his choice of school?
If there were no issue of the father trying to force her to choose his (more expensive) choice between “two great schools”, would there be any conflict on this matter?
OP got the best of both worlds: her parents are supposed to support her and she will not be supposed to support her parents when they are old. In China, she is supposed to. I bet her parents are still supporting their parents in China.
She’ll still get to pick his nursing home. He’d better understand that! She can leave his Beemer parked outside his window.
If there is indeed such an expectation, the extra cost and/or debt burden on both the parents and OP for the father’s school preference will make the parents more needy and make the OP less capable of giving such support.
@ClassicRockerDad: Yes, you do have one of the stronger opinions in the thread :-). And I can see what you’re saying – you may very well be right. But I can also see what others are saying. It’s hard to tell. That’s partly why I’ve emphasized trying to obtain the desired outcome while maintaining a good family relationship.
Part of the thing is, it may not matter. If the OP says she’s not going to Berkeley and her father then says he’s not paying, she may not be able to go anywhere. And if going to Berkeley requires a significant expense/significant amount of loans, that may not be doable either.
^^^
yes and unfortunately they cannot have a reasoned discussion about the finances because the dad is being such a twit.
but hey, apparently he can lie and manipulate and bully and act outrageously awful toward her and it’s all OK, because “cultural differences”
How about if the OP’s parents allow her to go to college where she wants AND save money for retirement (instead of spending it on a comparable college or a BMW now)? So maybe the parents will not be a burden to the OP when they are older. With the current plan, the OP can have the burden of supporting parents who could have saved more for retirement AND student loans. That is idiotic. I don’t care how they do it in China. This is a foolish financial decision.
^^^
this. nailed it @intparent
@tigerbeach : a family that doesn’t have a huge college fund can’t afford to send their kid to a UC. And I’m not sure if you’re trying to be racist by putting financial stupidity as a Chinese cultural value, or if you’re just ignorant, but I can assure you that while many Chinese parents will make sacrifices for their children’s education, they look at everything when they make their decision and they don’t jeopardize their house or family’s finances AND threaten to disown their child if s/he takes the more respectful way that is both prestigious and responsible.
We only have the child’s perspective, but some facts are intractable :
- undergraduate public health major is in jeopardy
- 150 million cut JUST THIS YEAR
- restructuring of the colleges
- decrease in positions including career center, advising, library hours, health clinic hours…
- complete elimination of financial aid for out of state students.
- online classes
It doesn’t make any sense to pay oos costs to ucb at the moment, even if you have rh money. We know the father believes it’s worth it … OK. But do they have 300k earmarked for college?
Why spend twice the money when you don’t have it? Again, this isn’t ‘the Chinese way’, and I’m sure @Cobrat’s going to jump in to tell us various stories from his mainland and nonmainland Chinese friend, relatives, and neighbors, none of whom would do such a foolish thing and justify it as being uniquely Chinese.
Weighing Berkeley 's prestige highly is Chinese; being foolish isn’t a cultural trait.
@richmond22 : you need to know how much of the cost will come from income, how much from savings (which type: college savings? Retirement?), and how much from loan.
You have one power: that not to sign Co signed loans. Pretty much if HELOC or co-signed loan a lot rests on your ability to refuse, because many families can’t withstand loans of such a magnitude (anything above 30k is dangerous.)
@MYOS1634 Why are you accusing me racist when I simply pointed out that the daughter should be thankful of what her parents have provided for her and the fact she does not have any obligations to pay it back. Why is the Chinese culture so stupid where young people are ethically obligated to support their elder parents? The facts you listed about UCB is not unique to OP but to all admitted into UCB, right? I still do not understand why we jump in so quick and pass on judgement on an adult who does not have a chance to present his side of story. I have only one thing to say to OP if you care to listen: your father and your family are the dearest thing you have. Do not do anything you will regret later to hurt your father and your family. Be thankful of what they have done for you. Make a decision together with them. If there is financial difficulty, you need to overcome it together. The fact you father mentioned he wishes to own a beemer but never does means he did not put his own interests ahead of yours. With that, I am out of this discussion.
I’m sure there’s a Father’s side, certainly. But yes, all these facts apply to all who are admitted. And for those who will pay 20k or less, those facts are absolutely worth dealing with. But they make paying 60k unreasonable. Californians receive a great education, even if it’s really not comfortable learning conditions, but still a great value. Virginians who would pay 60k? Not so. And we know it’ll be 60k because UC 's don’t offer financial aid.
Where it gets foolish is if the family doesn’t have the money.
It seems you didn’t mean today Chinese people’s culture makes them foolish, which is what I got from your 'cultural values’posts, so I apologize.
But it doesn’t change the facts ‘shunning’ is abusive.even if you consider this is just the child’s point of view, how do you justify taking loans for ucb oos?
OP, you have little time to lose. Try to find a Chinese professor at Berkeley (ideally someone who is ethnically Chinese not necessarily someone who teaches Chinese). Email as many Chinese professors as you can find and explain your situation. Give them your father’s contact information and ask if they would be willing to contact your father and explain that while Berkeley is of course a very fine institution, UVA is an equally fine institution and if it was their child facing instate tuition and a desire to live closer to home, they would recommend UVA.
It’s a long shot but cast your net wide. Look online for email addresses. Ask everyone to forward your email on to anyone who can help.
The key problem is that your dad does not see UVA as equal or even close to Berkeley. He will not be convinced by UVA people. He might be convinced by Berkeley people.
I don’t see a prof being willing to jump into that swamp.
Off-topic
@ClassicRockerDad - wow. Read through the Jigfeet thread you linked to. Any idea what happened to that young woman?
I agree - there are definitely some similarities.
Hoggirl, I wish I knew. She certainly had a profound impact on my thinking and I hope she’s a college graduate leading a fulfilling life. I’ve tried to PM her a few times with no response. Maybe she’ll come back when her youngest gets to HS.
Hey guys, so final update. My mom and I just talked about my dad, and he just has left me no option now. I either have to commit to Berkeley or go to UVA and figure out how to afford it. So, I’m committing to Berkeley tonight, andI just have to make the most of it and be thankful that I have parents who push me to go to a college with a great education. I hope that I will be happy there. If I commit to UVA, he just won’t pay, and it’s too much of a financial burden for my mom. Thank you all for your feedback on this thread.