I don’t know where the numbers can be found, but I doubt that Berkeley grads are making a lot more than UVA grads
OP, you said you might need loans. You can’t get federal loans without filling out FAFSA. I assume you are a US citizen. This seems crazy – if borrowing is needed, then you really should be going to UVA. And to get loans with the best rates and the most consumer protections, FAFSA paperwork is needed. Since he was rational about UVA a couple weeks ago, maybe he will recover his senses?? You at least need to talk to him about the loan situation – you don’t just go to the local bank to get student loans.
@richmond22 trust me, chinese parents are really stubborn sometimes. (I know.) The deadline for your school choice is coming up soon, right? I’d suggest just going to Berkeley if your dad is willing to pay. Plus, it’s not a bad school. College is what you make of it - and i’m sure these words will bite me back later when I have to go through the application process - so just try to appreciate what Berkeley has to offer. Try to like the school and who knows? Maybe you’ll end up liking it more.
Still try to talk to your dad once more, or maybe get your mom to talk to him with you. Good luck!
UVA is not inexpensive even in state with room and board it will be close to $30K a year. It sounds like you may need some loans for UVA but another $80K in loans for Berkeley is totally not worth it at all. Hopefully you and your Mom will know the right things to say to try and convince him. The people who have gone to Berkeley from our VA HS have not really been happy and a number we know have transferred out. I think people underestimate the large class size for the intro classes and the impacts of the impacted major stuff but they were all CS majors that my son knows. You definitely deserve to go to the school you want after all your hard work in HS but that is my opinion and your Dad’s is different. If you do end up having to go to Berkeley even if things are going well I would still apply for transfer to UVA just in case Dad stops paying or he changes his mind at some point.
If your dad is even talking about loans, you are not truly wealthy and should be concerned about potentially starting at Berkeley and having the money run out. As dcplanner says, even UVa is not inexpensive these days. Berkeley would be twice as much. They are peer schools. You could do fine at either . If you are wealthy, go to either- but that does not seem to be the case here.
Happiness is everything and your argument is sound. Additionally, in my opinion, I would not say the brand is better- unless you break it down by a particular department…my studies were stronger at UC Berkeley and I took some coursework there, but we thought my daughter’s major/concentration was stronger at UVA.
Can you afford to pay yourself? did you get FA? Do you live in CA?
Does you mom support your decision? Your dad will get over it. He loves you after all. Sounds like he may be trying to live vicariously though you…
Now Dad has to borrow money to send his daughter to Berkeley. No way this is going down for 4 years, I don’t care who he’s told, or that he’s Chinese.
This is not so different from Jigfeet.
Tell Dad you’d be happy to be average and middle class as long as you get to go to UVA.
Tell Dad that UVA was founded by, among others, Thomas Jefferson whose wrote in the Declaration of Independence
“all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–”.
Tell him that PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS is an unalienable right for women too!
I’m 'a compel him to include women in the sequel - Work!
@usualhopeful HAMILTON! YES!!!
This whole situation is breaking my heart and making me furious so I’m sorry if I get a bit angry.
If your dad is going to make you take out loans for Berkeley and you would have to take out loans for going to UVA as well, I say screw him. Go to UVA. If you’ll have loans to pay off after college either way, why not have it so that you’re paying off loans for the school YOU wanted to go to. Also, be sure to tell your dad he should remove his head from his derriere. The sheer ignorance and audacity of his statements is mind blowing. If he can’t appreciate the fact that you are a bright girl who got into two top notch colleges and want to go to the one you, then screw him. He’s the ignorant one. You should tell him that, believe it or not, people in China aren’t indicators of the best schools, and that there is much more to a school then a name. A friend of my mother works in public health and I know for a fact she would hire any hard working graduate from UVA over a graduate from the semi-defunct Berkeley School of Public Health. Tell your dad that.
Sorry, I get really emotional when I witness unfairness due to ignorance.
I grew up in the SF Bay Area and many of my high school classmates were first generation Americans whose parents immigrated from China, Vietnam, and other Asian countries. What you are describing is a common challenge. Many of my Asian friends were given the same ultimatums. Look on the bright side - at least your dad is letting you pick your major. He is not dictating that.
It is easy for one to say that you should just defy your dad and go to UVa. However, understand that where your dad is coming from, some of where he is coming from stems from the need to maintain status and to save face. In many Asian cultures, your children are considered failures if they do not go to a “top school” like Berkeley. So you are battling against long standing cultural traditions that you all not be able to beat in the next few days.
At the same time, you are battling against a strong Chinese value to respect one’s parents and to make them proud. You need to think long and hard about how important your relationship with your dad is to you. Don’t throw it away too quickly. At the end of the day, your dad loves you very much.
From an outsiders perspective, both of them are doing a little bit of emotional decision making. If you really want to go to UVa, the show your dad that you are mature in your decision making. Put together a written list of pros and cons for both schools. Show him the stats of how many Public Health majors go onto grad school immediately after undergrad. How many are employed full time within 6 months of graduation.
Also I will offer up this as food for thought…you might end up changing your mind about your major once you enter college. It happens to a lot of students and that’s ok. Just consider how it might be a lot easier for your dad to stomach the change of major if you are at Berkeley.
Also give him stats that show how many public health majors graduate in 4 years. How many end up doing research projects.
Berkeley is so near SF that its proximity to the Ucsf med school means that you could do some really great public health research projects out there with very diverse populations.
“it might be a lot easier for your dad to stomach the change of major if you are at Berkeley.” Taking more time to graduate because of a change of major, and paying twice as much money to do so. No thanks.
@tusconmom It’s your first post but IMO you knocked it out of the park. I could not choose between the Like and Helpful button on your post.
he told you not to fill out the FAFSA? this is nuts. i don’t know if it’s too late but if it isn’t, fill it out ASAP. get the info from your mom if he won’t give it to you. and make sure you fill it out every year.
if you have not filled out a FAFSA or applied for fin aid this situation i just getting worse.
I see your father has been taking parenting lessons from Amy Chua.
He’s not speaking to you OR your mom OR your sister? Is he mentally ill?
That you think you will be happier at UVa is an excellent reason for you to prefer it. So is the fact that UVa is cheaper, especially given that you’re not currently planning a super high income career.
If you and your mom can figure out a way to send you to UVa, go there and let him get over himself. If not, at least his preference is for a good school, go and make the best of Berkeley.
Maybe your mom can remind him that being a dictatorial horse’s rear and cutting you off for wanting to make a perfectly reasonable and financially responsible choice is awfully short sighted, give that eventually you will control access to his grandchildren. Also, quick pick up one of those bumper stickers that say “Be kind to your children. They’ll pick your nursing home.”
It is the father who is doing his best to ruin the relationship between him and the OP.
Forcing the OP to go to the much more expensive school and take on debt for his [the father’s] choice is pretty extreme even from a tiger parent perspective.
ooooh! This sounds like a good idea. I think you and your mom need to conspire 
Seriously, though, I think you should write dad a letter. In it, include the following:
- UVA STATUS -the ranking of UVA -number of Rhodes scholars, Fulbright Scholars, and similar -overall selectivity of the school -history/founders/importance in the history of the U.S.
- CAREER SUCCESS of UVA GRADS -high-profile, recognizable names of very successful people who went to UVA. You can use LinkedIn and Wikipedia to find this. -links to highly successful people in his own field who went to UVA -any career information you can find on the UVA website, such as percent who have jobs after graduation, starting salaries, salaries 10 years after graduation, etc.
- SOCIAL/DEMOGRAPHICS -names of people of Chinese descent who graduated UVA and are very successful -percent of Chinese students enrolled -names of Chinese professors
- FINANCES -create a clear presentation comparing the cost of UVA with UCB. -include cost of travel in your calculations (figure at least four round trip airfares per year plus transportation costs to/from the airport on each end) -provide the total amount in loans that you will have to take out at UVA vs. UCB -calculate the amount by which your take-home income will be decreased by paying back those loans
Here’s a list of notable alumni of UVA, including five U.S. Supreme Court Justices:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Virginia_people
According to US News & World Report, the UC Berkeley public health program is #8 in the country. UVa didn’t make the top 20. I’m not necessarily trying to sway you to go one way or another here. Just pointing out a piece of data that I just discovered.
I doubt that the OP’s father is mentally ill. Just consider looking at this from the point of view of someone who grew up in a culture that is very different than American culture. It MIGHT be possible that her dad refused to fill out a FAFSA because doing so might result in him and his family losing face…because only someone who was “poor” and a failure in life would need financial aid.
I’m not defending the OP’s dad. Just pointing out that he is looking at the situation from a very different point of view. The OP might fear extended family or friends finding out that they took financial aid.
Consider for example something I learned in an MBA class taught by a Caucasian professor who was raised in a small rural Japanese fishing village. At that time in Japan (1980s), if you wanted to get married in Japan, your family and the groom or bride’s family would go look up the other family’s history in a national database. If any member of the extended family had any blemish on their record…an unpaid debt, accused of a crime even if you were found not guilty, a divorce, etc…the wedding would be called off because of fear that it would bring shame to your family.
That is a very foreign concept in American culture.
Now of course Japan is an entirely different country than China and Taiwan, but the concept of saving face is found in all 3.
What also could be driving the dad is if he got any lip from family members who wanted him to stay in China and not immigrate to the US. This might be his way of proving to family “back home” that “See? I told you I could do it. My daughter is going to UCB.”
Is this fair to the OP? Of course not.
He’ll refuse to speak to you and acknowledge you as his daughter? Wow…
Maybe you should get the school counselor involved in this.
Sounds fishy… how can you tell you will be happier at UVA than UCB by just visiting? Unless there are some other factors (wanting to be close to home, in-state boyfriend, easier classes at UVA than UCB, blah blah blah…) that we don’t know about, no one can give you any relevant advice either way.
Those rankings are going to be for grad schools, and don’t necessarily indicate the strength of the undergrad program.
If you do cost calculations for your dad, you may have to purchase the college health insurance to go to Berkeley, and you very likely won’t have to for UVA (assuming your family insurance has good coverage at UVA, and I bet it does because it is close). I just Googled, and the Berkeley insurance is $2,580 per year. So add that to out of state tuition, room & board, fees, and travel.
@WesternDigital , if the OP lives in Richmond, they live about 75 miles from UVA. It is likely that the OP has been to the UVA campus more than once over the years.