With all due respect to tusconmom, the cultural aspect of this practice still comes down to dominance and submission.
Many cultural aspects of many cultures come down to dominance and submission.
It is now 2016 (April 26th I might add). We live in the US. There is no excuse for abuse. It shouldn’t be tolerated.
Does the OP want to allow the propagation of such an abusive relationship to continue for another generation or is it time for daughter and mother to stand up to this abuse. He’s not punching his daughter in the face while he tells her he loves her, but psychologically he is by telling her he’ll withhold his love if she doesn’t submit. That’s not love, it’s abuse.
You can’t on the one hand claim it’s all based on the love for his daughter and on the other hand claim he doesn’t want to lose face. This is totally about putting his face over her needs. I couldn’t care less about his face.
I'm assuming that he can because he always tells me to not worry about the finances, which is why he told me not to apply for FA for Berkeley and UVA.<<
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well apparently he is full of **** because you also wrote
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he makes enough money to support the family, but I think I'll need to take out loans for Berkeley because its so expensive<<
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that’s awful. “don’t worry about the finances honey because YOU can take out loans for the school I prefer.”
At this point I don’t think it’s a good idea to trust anything your dad says. You really need to take full ownership of the college process because he has completely jerked you around.
He lied to you about being happy about whatever school you chose, then yanked the rug out a couple days later by insisting you go to Berkeley.
He told you not to worry about finances and gave you horrible advice by telling you not to apply for FA (I assume he also told you not to fill out the FAFSA), but now is forcing you to go to a way more expensive school that YOU will have to take out loans to pay for. And you might not be able to take out any loans if you did not do the FAFSA.
Feel free to correct my numbers but UCB will cost you $55K-$60K per year, and UVa will be $25K or so? If you have to take out your own loans anyway, it might as well be for the school you want that is also more affordable.
Besides, how do you know if he has ANY money to pay for UCB? Or for UVa for that matter? At this point I would have to be suspicious of anything he says about his ability or willingness to pay for any school. He has shown himself to be dishonest, clueless, and unreliable regarding this whole situation.
If your dad is going to make you take out loans for Berkeley and you would have to take out loans for going to UVA as well, I say screw him. Go to UVA. If you'll have loans to pay off after college either way, why not have it so that you're paying off loans for the school YOU wanted to go to.<<
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@ClassicRockerDad you have been right about this situation and I have been WRONG. Forget the cultural considerations, Dad has been utterly atrocious toward his daughter and she needs to establish a unified front with Mom to combat his garbage ASAP and come up with a UVa solution. At this point I feel that Berkeley is NOT a valid option because i have absolutely no confidence Dad has any ability whatsoever to pay for it, and most of the financial burden will fall on OP. She needs to protect her interests here and not be concerned with saving his damn face.
I’ve been reading this thread with a heavy heart. My D had a middle school friend who is Asian (Chinese) with similar domineering parents. She wasn’t allowed to go to any school events that were not strictly education-related, always pushed to be the best, blah, blah, blah. Even in 7th grade, the goal was to be the #1 student and go to a top college, get into medical school. Meanwhile, the girl was cutting. The pressure was too much for her, but darn if she wasn’t going to try to meet her parents’ expectations. After 7th grade, they moved her to a higher pressure school that in turn fed to into the most rigorous HS. Last I heard, she was still cutting. But she’s a top student.
For all of you saying, “But the parents just want what’s best,” and “Just put up with it until you’re out of college,” You don’t seem to have any idea what it’s like being controlled by a domineering parent, all in the name of prestige. It IS abusive, and real, and there’s nothing “fishy” about it. I’m sorry, OP. I wish I could help. Try to get others involved to help get your father into the 21st century.
I would create a game plan with your mom to figure out how you can pay for college between the two of you. The only loans you can get are the federal student loans ($5500 as a freshman, $6500 as a soph, and $7500/year as a junior and senior). However, you have to fill out the FAFSA right away to be able to get those loans.
If you get a summer job you can probably earn $3k. Ask your mom how much she can pay and add that to whatever you can earn in the summer, the ~$5500 student loan, and the amount your mom can pay; that’s your budget. It may not be enough to pay for the VA college. You may have to commute, take a gap year and look for more affordable schools, or start at a community college. But you’ll have better control over your finances and your life. Money is power. Don’t give yours to your dad.
@richmond22 Your dad loves you. It does not matter which college you pick to go in the end. He will still love you. He just wants you to have the best he perceives to be. Communication needs to start in your family at whatever cost so you can all talk. The worst that can happen is that a college is chosen by one person (either you or your dad) in your situation. It is a family decision if you care about your family. If you insist on going to your college, I believe your dad will turn around in the end. Work it out with him, He raised you up. You owe him that much.
FAFSA requires parental cooperation. So the abusive father still has power over the OP with respect to college financial aid and such, unless the OP finds a full ride somewhere or becomes an independent student for financial aid purposes (e.g. age 24, married, military veteran).
If your stats are high enough to get into UCB and UVA, there may be an out, if any of the full ride merit scholarships are still available (ask the schools directly if they are still available). However, they may not have the exact major you want.
the UAH full-tuition and full-tuition + housing scholarships are available if you apply by Aug 1 for Fall admission. they are very generous and accommodating for top students.
i am not saying that your father does not love you, but he is being very erratic and not acting in your best interest.
I too have concerns that even if the OP chooses UCB as her father wishes, that won’t be the end of it. Once he has her locked in there, the next demand may be to pick a major where she will make more money or have more bragging rights or prestige.
If he’s willing to use the purse strings to direct her choice of college now, I can possibly see this happening again over the next 4 years (major, where she will live, internships/jobs, etc).
My parents did this all the time to people who disagreed with them. Including me. It goes on for years until they decide to “forgive” you. It’s a really ugly, nasty tool to control people and keep them in line for fear of being cut off from the love and attention of your parent(s).
I’m not sure this is the hill the OP wants to die on-at least in my family defiance got me pulled from my college. Eventually the relationship disintegrated anyway as I finally grew a spine, but my advice to the OP would be to take UCB, and become as independent as soon as possible and get the hell out as soon as possible so you can be in charge of your own life.
Either your father will learn to respect you as an adult someday, or the relationship will end-there’s no way to tell if he will decide his relationship with his daughter is more important than him being right and getting what he wants. I hope in your case that he decides the former.
As for a cultural thing-my parents are working class caucasian multi-generation new englanders. Maybe it’s the puritan control freak heritage, maybe it’s mental illness, who knows.
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Once he has her locked in there, the next demand may be to pick a major where she will make more money or have more bragging rights or prestige.
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True. He has already indicated that personal happiness doesn’t matter. If he’s in communication with people whose knowledge is limited to thinking that only UCB, UCLA and Ivies are acceptable, then the next step will be that only certain majors/career goals are acceptable. I expect the next limitation will be: Engineer, Doctor, Pharmacist or similar.
I was working under the assumption that the mom could file the FAFSA. She can do that with copies of their tax returns, can’t she?
I wouldn’t take UCB and the debt it entails. What’s the estimate – ~$80-100k for UCB? If she takes that, every decision OP makes will require her dad’s approval. She has a chance to work toward independence now with her mom’s help. She should take advantage of that. She’ll be helping her siblings in the process.
The abusive father probably also controls the mother with similar abuse. If the mother goes behind his back to apply for financial aid, the family situation will probably get a lot worse really quickly.
Basically, the OP’s choices are either to put up with the abuse until college graduation, or cut the cord completely now. Filing FAFSA will increase the OP’s dependency on the abusive father, which is probably not the desired result.
Well, if they need loans to cover UCB, the OP (and her parents) are not yet signed up to get those loans. I think this needs to be discussed with her dad before depositing at UCB, for sure. Where does he think he is going to borrow any money needed?
There is a part of me that thinks he is just blustering. He commented to her mom that the OP would be “average” if she goes to UVA just yesterday (?), right? So he still thinks it is a possibility, maybe. The door may still be open to convince him to let her go to UVA. Maybe the OP should agree with him – say that to people her dad respects, they do see UCB as higher quality. But point out that:
You will need a masters degree from either school to be successful in your field of study, and that will cost money. So in the long run, it may not make financial sense
Can you pull off saying you want to stay close to your mom, or any siblings? That you don't feel comfortable going so far from home? Not sure if you can, it depends on how close you have been to your family and also what you have said in the past about going away to school.
That you are worried about taking out loans, since your profession won't be very high paying, and that YOU are the one whose names will be on federal loans (the ones that have the most protections and make the most sense if you do need loans).
That you are worried about your mom (and do you have younger siblings?) and their well being if you use up so many of the family resources for college.
Again… get a third party involved if possible. Another relative,or parent of a friend from your same culture? I’d say your GC, but their opinion may not carry much weight with your dad. Time is short…
Let’s play devil’s advocate. Maybe his experience taught him that what we consider “personal happiness” quickly turns into “personal agony” when you have kids and struggle to pick between paying mortgage or car payment. May be he thinks that falling in love with certain schools without attending one for a while is overrated. May be he thinks that kid may change major and UCB would be a better fit and location in general to explore options. May be we are judging to conclusions without hearing his side.
Many of the majors that a tiger parent would approve of are restricted admission ones at UCB, due to capacity limitations (so is public health). Some examples (assuming that the OP is admitted to undeclared in the College of Letters and Science):
If he is struggling financially, then this is a doubly dumb decision, as she is in state for UVA. And seriously… UVA is comparable to UCB. When they list the “public Ivies” (meaning public colleges that provide an education comparable to Ivies), often the list includes UCB, UVA, Michigan, and a couple others. I know your kid is jonesing for prestige, so maybe you think somehow that UCB is better. It honestly is not. The OP is really lucky she lives in a state with a very strong public flagship.
Hey guys so first off I just wanted to say a big thank you to everybody who has commented and offered their support. This is my first time posting on College Confidential, so I was overwhelmed by all the responses I received! Thank you all so much.
A little backstory about my dad. He grew up in China in a very strict family. His mother was a Tiger mom and was verbally abusive. He earned his bachelors degree at the best university in Shanghai, China. He went to Hopkins for his masters and PhD. He’s always been this verbally abusive to me and my mom ever since I was a child.
Last night, my mom, my dad, and I talked and he asked me what I wanted to be in the future and I said successful. He then went on a speech about how Berkeley’s brand is better than UVA’s and how I’ll be successful if I go to Berkeley and if I go to UVA I’ll be middle class and a housewife. He said that if I chose UVA, I don’t need the money and that he’s going to spend it on a new BMW. He ended his speech with if you choose UVA then I wish you the best but I’m dissapointed in you and then walked away.
As for my mom, she’s trying to mediate between me and my father but it’s hard for her because he is so domineering. I’m meeting with my school counselor either tomorrow or the day after, so we’ll see how that goes.
My stats
SAT: 2200
SAT subject tests: 800 Math II, 750 US History
AP: 5 on AP US History and AB Calc, 3 on AP World History and Chemistry, and I’m taking seven this spring
EC: founder of a leadership club at my school, 400+ community service hours, intern for Congresswoman, Senior coach for community swim team, teacher’s assistant for AP Chemistry teacher, published a research paper about drowning and current state policies, and International Finalist for DECA
Thank you so so so much again to everybody who has commented and offered their advice!!! It means so much to me. You guys are truly amazing
