my extremely bright daughter did an extremely stupid thing

Parents Forum
41

<p>As a lawyer in a college town, I can tell you that my observation is that there is a point--imminent expulsion--where having a local attorney versed in the particular school's honor/responsibility code would make sense and would be helpful. Of course, if the school refers her to local law enforcement, you absolutely should get one. It does not sound to me as if you are anywhere close to either of those two scenarios, so have a lawyer butt his/her head in probably wouldn't help and might be counterproductive (e.g., chill administrators' willingness to discuss things with you).</p>

<p>I'll also observe that if there is anything good to come out of this situation, you know that your daughter is going to a school that cares enough about her welfare to enforce substance abuse rules. Many would look the other way. If they are doing that, they'll also care enough not to allow one mistake to ruin an otherwise good kid's college experience. At orientation at my daughters' LAC, the counselor at student health invited parents to call and discuss their concerns. They were mindful of privacy and HIPAA and all that crap, but were willing to discuss "hypotheticals" and the counseling services available at the school. If it were me, I'd try to get her into some counseling sessions--it can't hurt, they might be able to help her address peer pressure issues (if that is all it is) and if it is something worse, they might be able to intervene and get her some help. And though it is only an incidental benefit, it may be helpful for her to recount that she is seeking counseling when she appears before whatever tribunal will hear this.</p>

<p>Man, I thought parenting adolescents was hard. Parenting grown kids is almost impossible. Good luck.</p>

42

<p>The advice I have received is amazing in its sincerity and truly invaluable.
Today I consulted my minister, a level-headed person, if ever there was one. She told me to a) take a deep breath; b) presume that she is, at worst, a college freshman who is experimenting and fooling around, and probably not more than that. She knows her pretty well.</p>

<p>With my permission, the minister called one of the chaplains at the college, who said he has had experience with similar situations. He wants to meet with her tomorrow, and he implied (I guess he wants to check things out for himself before committing) that he would go to the hearing as her advocate. He said it wouldn't be appropriate for me to be at the hearing, or for our minister (although she volunteered to go there, a seven-hour drive!), but that she needs, instead, an advocate who has standing with the school. I am trying to reach my daughter now to make sure this message gets through loud and clear. So I am working on making sure they get together.</p>

<p>And I will insist on the counseling, in one form or another -- through the mental health service, with this chaplain, or otherwise.</p>

<p>About the charming lad who was the dealer: It seems that the campus security had him under watch because the very night before, he had been nailed in the act of selling something; why he was still in the dorm, I don't know. But because he was undeterred by that first bust and went back into business, the school has given him the boot.</p>

<p>But back to strategies/options: The lawyer issue nags at me, probably because my late husband was a lawyer and he framed every single act in life in terms of how it would look in court -- but maybe mostly because I've seen too many episodes of Law and Order. I find myself convinced that I ought to at least contact the administrator and ask if having a lawyer present would be customary/necessary/appropriate. I've researched the drug laws in the state where this school is, and I find that possession of less than 100 grams of marijuana (that is, of course, if you're busted by the regular police, and not the campus security) results in mere a citation and a fine of $100. But here I am, hundreds of miles away, slowly going mad over the prospect of this child being booted out of school for that offense. Cruel and unusual? You tell me. Nobody ever mentioned this stuff in la maze classes.<br>
I joke now -- frankly, supported a bit by all the messages here -- but I am a wreck over this.</p>

43

<p>I think the school would have dismissed her by now if they were going to...esp. since the issue is drug-related. I suspect she'll be placed on formal warning (probation). </p>

<p>Spanks, to your point, this dealer guy is probably the only source known to the kids on campus. Thus, I'm willing to bet that the reason for the rolled joint sales is his business decision - probably charging much more for the single joint than typical for such things (supply and demand). He's not a street dealer supplying adults with fat pockets, he's a student. So, rolling the joints might just be much more profitable for him. He probably couldn't make as much profit by selling larger quantities because the kids wouldn't be able to afford the larger quantity at such inflated prices - and I also imagine that most students would rather not be bothered with keeping the rolling papers around, etc. Anyway, sounds like he's out of business.....thank goodness.</p>

44

<p>You are getting wonderful advice, a little prayer, and a good night's sleep might make things clearer as well. The school is sounding like a caring institution - perhaps contacting someone in the Dean's Office about the possibilities and need or lack thereof for the attorney is a good idea - I agree with many of the other posters that if they have kept the law out of it, I probably would, too. If you do need an attorney, one who is knowledgeable about the school might be a good choice. Perhaps for your own peace of mind, do you know an attorney in your town, that perhaps makes you feel comfortable as the minister did, just to run the situation by?</p>

45

<p>"I find myself convinced that I ought to at least contact the administrator and ask if having a lawyer present would be customary/necessary/appropriate."</p>

<p>Be careful. The old "do I need to involve my lawyer?" could be viewed as a threat...no matter how sweetly you ask. I really wouldn't mention lawyers to the school at all....even innocently. What would your lawyer do? Sue them? They've already demonstrated that they're handling this privately. Don't stir the pot. (no pun intended)</p>

46

<p>Mumbe;</p>

<p>when I mentioned outside counsel, I did not mean that you should have a lawyer there to represent your D. As pointed out earlier, that might just cause the Admin to cross his arms defensively and dig in his heels. On the other hand, with the minister as an advocate, that could be win-win.</p>

<p>My point on legal counsel was so that you could obtain quality, disinterested advice from someone who knows the school and what they've actions they've taken in similar situations. As long as they follow their policies fairly and don't act capriciously..... However, if the school is arbitrary in handling your D's case, then you have someone locally who could is ready take appropriate legal action if required. (In any negotiation, it's always important to know what the other side knows and what they need to claim victory, so you know what D's bargaining power is.)</p>

<p>Best of luck to you and your family.</p>

47

<p>Mumbe, I was reflecting on your late husband's wisdom. "How it will look in Court", you know, is just another way of saying "do the right thing." If an action won't withstand the scrutiny of a group of random strangers, then it is at least a red flag that maybe you ought to think twice about it. In this case, you've clearly done the right thing. I'm slamming my forehead now over not immediately thinking of a chaplain when I first read about your problem. Sounds like the perfect person to be your daughter's ombudsman in this situation. Well done. Very well done.</p>

48

<p>I'd stay away from the lawyer, too. It sounds very clear to me (but I could be wrong) that the college is handling this. If your daughter had been arrested, you'd know. I think the best she can do is to take responsibility for her actions and think about how she'll deal with her situation and communicate that to the school at the hearing. As at least one other poster pointed out, it might not be the best thing for her to remain at that school. Wait to see what the school says. They will most likely allow her to appeal their decision if she's unhappy with it. If they decide to let her continue as a student this semester but require she attend substance abuse counselling or other, I'd consider that a just outcome. Maybe not all schools are right in the way they deal with things, but you have to assume they have a lot of experience. If they come down hard on her (suspension, for ex.) I might think it's because they know that this is serious and that she won't be successful until she deals with the underlying cause. Other posters said it better - love her, support her, don't 'fix' the problem for her but help her to fix it herself. That way she is able to salvage something from an otherwise unpleasant experience.</p>

49

<p>Contacting the chaplain was a wonderful idea! This is a person who knows the school and will be able to put some of her actions in context, as well as being of some help to her with some counseling. Your minister is probably correct about this being a little experimentation. The part of it that would worry me is not that a college kid is getting drunk once or trying weed (reminds me of the police captain in Casa Blanca: "I'm shocked! shocked! to discover gambling is going on.) My concern would be that, from her prior infraction, she knew the college does not turn a blind eye to this stuff, and so presumably chose to put her scholarship and education at risk with an even more serious offense. That is what one would hope the college chaplain would encourage her to look at. It may just be that she did not believe this would happen until it did, that this wasn't the same thing, or she wouldn't get caught. The issue may be one of judgment rather than substance abuse. Whatever happens, she will learn from this mistake, especially if she's as smart as you say she is.</p>

<p>Along the lines of taking a deep breath...dare I suggest, for you, a glass of red wine with dinner?:)</p>

50

<p>mumbe - such wonderful advice. Boy, when this board gets into the REAL life issues (away from the craziness of ED/EA/what are my chances/how can I improve my essay) it REALLY shines. Such wisdom and support.</p>

<p>And, what I really wanted to say, mumbe, from your recent posts is that your own wisdom and sense of humor are also evident. Hope they help you through the nights and days.</p>

51

<p>I also meant the attorney as advisor to parent and, perhaps, to put "the fear" into the D - not to go to the hearing or whatever - "lawyering up" can put folks on the defensive unnecessarily.</p>

<p>Agree about the chaplain - great solution! Best of luck - please let us know how this turns out - in case you didn't notice, we care!!</p>

52

<p>You know, you could contact the school without having to identify yourself or her and simply determine the rules. But, then, don't pass that info on, instead ask her to determine the potential consequences herself. You would then have the facts so you could be the most effective sounding board for her as she tries to make better choices. This would enable you to give the best quality advice whilst still making her be responsible for herself.</p>

<p>I have found my daughter, now 3rd year, most often calls me to be her sounding baord and help her think through the pros & cons of her optiosn and possibly see things she has not seen, but she makes the final choices. I would like to think I have been a help to her.</p>

53

<p>Mumbe - I can't really add much to the sound advice you've received here (not to mention the wisdom of your own actions). I just want to join in wishing you and your daughter good luck. I hope she realizes what a wonderful, caring, and supportive parent she has. No doubt there are many parents out there whose response would have been far different.</p>

54

<p>This is a situation that never even occured to me I am shocked to say.
But then my daughter attends "weed" college :eek:</p>

55

<p>You know what bothers me? It's not getting caught trying to buy something, it's not the drinking episode--although I agree that those may indicate a more serious problem ("public intoxication" is not just having a beer and being a bit too loud)and do require all the wise steps that have been mentioned about Al-anon, etc. </p>

<p>What bothers me is your statement that she went to the head of the disciplinary body and to security, apparently in an attempt to get them to drop the charges. To me, that smacks of a sense of privilege and of failing to accept responsibility for her actions, and basically of trying to talk herself out of a situation that she got herself into. Maybe I'm being way too harsh and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am, but that attitude I find more troubling than the relatively minor offenses. Also, blaming her behavior at the beginning on the dorm she was in. Lord knows, that's the kind of dorm lots of our kids are in, too. Are we going to blame the dorm for our children drinking?</p>

56

<p>patient, I really disagree with what you said. How could you expect her NOT to want them to drop the charges? I don't think it smacks of privilege at all. Privileged or not, nobody wants to get kicked out of school for a drug charge. The OP was simply pointing out that the new freedom of college and the Animal House environment were not something that her D handled well. I didn't hear any excuses in that.</p>

57

<p>On what basis did she want them to drop the charges? That she is above the rules of the school? That there must have been some mistake? It sure doesn't sound like she was innocent or it was a case of mistaken identity. Why should she be treated any differently than any other student caught?</p>

58

<p>momsdream; sounds like mumbe went for bit of counselling and found it very helpful. I suggested it because her view of her daughter was somewhat inaccurate and I thought it could be--and has already been improved with a bit of talking. </p>

<p>Momsdream, you seem to have a clear idea of what your kids are up to. I do too. My boys don't call me to tell me what they get up to every weekend, but they, and some of their friends, tell some real doozies. Plus, I have a great memory.</p>

<p>I grew up with a 12 year old who was binge drinking with a vengence. One of my friend's boys dropped acid and E every day for a month before they figured out what was wrong. He was fourteen. </p>

<p>I've seen real deviance, often a child's attempt to cope with mental illness. I wouldn't wish it on any parent. Mumbe's daughter, however, appears to be a garden variety experimenter. I hope she weathers the hearings and learns the lesson.</p>

<p>Mumbe; sounds like cookies are in order for your minister. Aren't you lucky to have someone who knows your family well? </p>

<p>Fingers crossed....</p>

59

<p>I honestly don't feel much sympathy for the actions the college/university might take. Considering the number of students they rejected who would have taken full advantage of the opportunity this student squandered, its really a situation where its probably best that this case result in an expulsion.</p>

60

<p>................ sorry.... can't post now... in danger of bursting a blood vessel... I will try to calm down and post later........</p>