<p>Your daughter was buying only a joint?... You should rest assured that she isn't much of a smoker if she was buying only that...</p>
<p>JZL:
If you are applying for the school year 2005-2006 thatis the FAFSA you do. It should be done now using 2003 data or estimates of 2004. Once your 2004 tax returns are filed, you go back and correct it.</p>
<p>If your are a high school senior, you are doing the FAFSA for 2005/2006, I think. I'll check your link.</p>
<p>I'm not sure how this thread has shifted to a discussion of the FAFSA, but as it is relevant, I might as well point out that any conviction for a drug offense, no matter how small the legal consequence (for example, misdemeanor, fine only) - can result in disqualifying the student from receiving federal loans. </p>
<p>--
Otherwise, I pretty much agree with Bettina on the subject. My guess is that college policies vary widely -- just as tolerance for student drinking is quite variable. I think the wise course is for kids to consider those issues along with everything else in selecting a college -- the "top 20" lists in the Princeton Review guide book are very helpful in getting an advance sense of the prevailing cultural values at a given college. Half of the colleges my son applied to are on the "Reefer Madness" list...</p>
<p>All the more reason I stand by my original point, regardless of how the student was doing academically. For a forum where its generally understood that a person is more than just their grades, it should continue to hold true. Just as a high school student with a 4.0 in high school with a character issue will not get accepted to certain educational environments, it should be the same in college that a student's GPA and standing does not impact the fact that they made a decision that calls into question their ability to be rational and make good choices.</p>
<p>Its not enough to say everybody makes mistakes, because there are plenty of kids who got rejected at any institution who wouldn't make such mistakes because they would have valued the experience more.</p>
<p>If a school won't remove a student from their institution, it is clear that the federal policy regarding financial aid disqualification should set the tone and not the other way around.</p>
<p>I hated Alanon personally
My husband had to go to AA as part of his alcohol treatment, but what I found in the alanon group here was all about "taking responsibility" and "enabling".
I didn't enable my husband,in fact I kicked him out of the house until he took responsibility for his behavior, but the group wasn't going to be happy until we ( me and the girls) admitted that we contributed to the substance abuse. please @@</p>
<p>I do agree though that it is a problem when someone drunk enough that it is obvious to others in a public area. Unless she is attending BYU, my impression is that schools are not going to write you up unless an extreme case. Alanon is free and she may hook up with some helpful resources for her.</p>
<p>Unlike Bettina, I point out the pot-addicted adults in our lives so my boys will see the HUGELY negative effect of the habit. Maybe professionals in SF are made of different stuff...but I do not envy the life of a single over-40 pot smoker. Most have made a real mess of their lives and most are as dull as toast when they are stoned.</p>
<p>Every adult I know is on prozac, and they roast some poor kid for using marijuana, which is harmless according to every study.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity, it must depend on the Alanon group. My very close friend has been going for years. Her H drinks way too much and gets abusive. The biggest problem has been that the family was overly dependent on his income, and they really did not know how to cope with the problem. To kick him out meant turning the family upside down and, frankly, my friend was barely hanging in there as it was. Alanon helped her really learn to cope with the situation, get a handle on things and finally (it took years) helped her get to the point where she is not so dependent. It was not an instant fix, but it made a big difference in her life. She is able to accept her husband for his good traits (and he has many), yet disassociate herself from the problems he was bringing upon himself. She was an enabler, and was able to get out of that role. The counseling was so valuable when she had some issues with her son. She did not leave her husband, but has had a richer life, more control in her life, and if it came down to it, she is in better shape to make such a decision and move.</p>
<p>Because someone brought up long-term consequences of a conviction or suspension for this: it is also applicable to a security clearance (should your D need one of those). I think that, for the clearance, they go back through your life. I'm pretty sure that the law schools go back five years or during college. As such, it could be a good idea for anyone with one of those marks on her record to wait at least five years before applying. It should also be addressed proactively in some supplement to the application. The "I did a dumb thing when I was a kid, I won't blame anyone but myself, but I grew up" is probably a decent tactic for dealing with it.</p>
<p>So yes, there are long-term consequences (I think that someone mentioned a person who couldn't sit for the bar because someone used his license as a fake ID), but they can probably be mitigated with proper handling and time.</p>
<p>Yes, Al-Anon groups vary widely just as individuals vary widely. Al-Anon is not designed to be an organization that takes responsibility for the substance abusers' drinking or drugging. Any Al-Anon group that acts like that is going directly against the principles of Al-Anon.</p>
<p>In general, it can be a great support for people whose lives are affected by a loved one's drinking. If one is not a good fit with one Al-Anon group, it's a good idea to see if there are other groups in one's community that one would find more compatible.</p>
<p>I went to a lot of Al-Anon groups when I worked in the treatment field, and I know from experience that some are very welcoming and supportive and do follow the Al-Anon principles, others are not.</p>
<p>actually kicking my husband out was I guess the catalyst for him to accept that if he wanted to move forward he needed to change. He voluntarily went through a substance abuse program at the hospital but having us participate in the al-anon program held there was part of the treatment. We only attended as long as he actually was in house in the program, once he finished and switched to AA groups outside the hospital, we quit attending. I didn't find a lot of help in the other groups I tried, although I understand that groups vary quite a bit.
He found an AA group that was made up of many folks one level up from living on the street, for some reason that helped him to see what path that was ahead.
But when I have attended similar groups ( when my oldest was 2, I spanked her on her diaper padded butt for something I don't even remember and it horrified me so much I went to a Parents Anonymous group for abusive parents), I just see that I am not as severe as the others and it actually makes it feel not a big deal, even though it is something I am concerned about. ( so I went to therapy instead$$$)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Every adult I know is on prozac, and they roast some poor kid for using marijuana, which is harmless according to every study
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Mensa--really? I am such an innocent when it comes to these things. It never occurs to me to look at someone and think they might be taking antidepressants or anything else. The only "drug" I take is my daily dose of endorphins from running or yoga. I'm not trying to be holier than thou about it, but it just never occurs to me that it is that common.</p>
<p>About marijuana and alcohol and such, I am sure that there are people who can use them responsibly and not be affected. My general impression, though, is that the people who use them more than very occasionally end up being much less outstanding than they could have become in whatever vocation or avocation they have chosen. I had a criminal law professor who argued vigorously for decriminalizing marijuana on the ground that it was a victimless crime, and I don't really disagree with that--I think it is kind of silly to waste resources on something that is rarely, rarely cited as having caused harm to someone else. But I don't think it is a good or healthy thing and I don't think condoning it to kids is a good thing for them. So I am somewhat sympathetic to the college that is keeping an eye on such things. I am not advocating for a harsh penalty by any means, but a good, sober talking to.</p>
<p>I read someone where that Donalds Trumps dad offered him something (cant remember what) if he did not smoke or drink by age 21. I decided to do the same with my kid. $1,000 if they did not smoke or drink by age 21.
Fortunately for me neither of mine has any desire at all to smoke or drink. The youngest is a singer and knows her voice is her gift and doesnt plan to blow it by smoking and drinking (has no desire)
The oldest is a bit of a health nut in her way. She drinks milk and juice occasionally, and water. She never touches anything else..says soda burns (she drank 1/2 glass of it when she was small) She has mentioned the partying..ie drinking etc at her school and says she is thrilled she got a roomate like herself that does NOT like to drink. And she hates smoke.
Now I am very lucky..my sister decided to raise her kids the French way offering them small sips of wine etc. as they grew up and her boy smokes and drinks! and yet my sister rarely drinks and I personally will drink wine on the weekends..but my kids have no interest at all..
So I lucked out with my kids..</p>
<p>I just had an old friend pass through town he is in law enforcement and she has worked for 20 plus years at a non-profit womens health clinic. I was telling them about this thread and the sexual practice threads. They both said that if everyone who swore their kids weren't drinking, smoking pot and having sex weren't there would be little need for some of their services. Most parents are totally unaware of what their children are doing. True some teens don't drink but most that do drink the parents don't know about it. The man said that in his work he has broken up too many parties to count where there is underage drinking. Or the kids they come across in the schoolyard late at night getting high. For the most part they let them go as long as no one is driving. They hope it scares them enough to not do it again. What he did say was that in his community they have seem that the kids are getting the message not to drink and drive. That they are using drivers who abstain or spending the night where the party is. With cell phones you really don't know where your kids are.
The woman said that she has just taken a leave from her job as it had become awkward as girls she knows or friends kids have started to come in. She did say that I am happier to see them before they have sex then after they are already pregnant. With her own D she let her know that she could come to her but if she was not comfortable with that she gave her names and numbers of other places she could go with the reassurance that it would not get back to her Mom.</p>
<p>Angstridden, I've heard all of the strategies, watched all of the strategies, and have yet to make any correlation between them and whether their kids turned out being substance abusers. I've known many, many parents who believed firmly in that offering wine at family occaisions would give kids a natural introduction to drinking responsibly, and if anything I think the talley shows that those kids had abuse problems with alcohol once they were out of the house, some even before. My close friend was devastated when her son was booked for underage drinking and a list of related charges; her daughter went through the same. She had always preached moderation and alcohol was not the forbidden fruit. We got rid of all alcohol from our house. We just stopped drinking when our nephew joined us and don't even use cooking wine. Extreme, yes. Does it work. No. But it just made it easier for us. I know families who have done this and their kids still abuse alcohol. A lot of it is just a combination of factors, and a predisposition to extremes.</p>
<p>(to elaborate on Jamimom's great post): It can also be a sign of some other problems. Bipolar disorder, depression, or the like will certainly result in substance abuse, as will non-organic, but long-standing psychological problems. Even hypoglycemics have a higher rate of alcoholism. </p>
<p>Could be a good thing for parents to watch out for - the alcohol use could be a kid problem, rebellion, or an indication of something that needs some form of professional attention.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with you jamimom..I dont think the offer I made my kids made a bit of difference really..I think I just lucked out and got 2 kids who are not interested in smoking or drinking.
My youngest went to a party and was very upset to find that some of the kids were smoking and drinking and she called us to get her. My oldest has just never been a partyier...She cant stand drinking and smoking.
I just find it ironic that I DO drink wine and my sister DOES NOT..and yet her boy smokes and drinks and mine dont.</p>
<p>My sister was trying to do it the French way. We lived overseas as kids. In France they often offer the children little sips of watered down wine. BUT there is a cultural difference there. They learn moderation..This is not taught in the states.
I cant tell you though how much it bugged me to be at a restaurant with her and her kids and her offering her children..(and they were probably 10 and 14 or so) a chance to taste the wine repeatedly. Not only could the restaurant owner lose his liquor license but her daughter was embarrased.</p>
<p>What your sister does in her home is her own business, but to it in a public place is inconsiderate. If my philosophy were like your sister's (and believe me, there were times when I was tempted, what harm a sip of champagne, particularly for my girls who were not trouble?), I would be considerate of others. I would not do it in front of other kids whose families may have a different way of looking at things or in a public place. There are legal issues as well.</p>
<p>It is a difficult situation. A neighbor here found a bunch of kids came to his house, drunk. They joined his S and friends who were in the basement rec room, though uninvited (or so the story goes). To just kick them out would be a problem as they were intoxicated and if they had an accident or any other issue, the moral and liability issues would involve the neighbor. He did not know the parents of the kids to call them, and he did not want to scare them away in their condition. I told him to call the police, which he did with great, great reluctance. Don't think they'll stop by his house again. But the son is furious with his father and the meddling neighbor (me) as he was humiliated by the scene and felt that everyone overreacted and were sneaky. But these kids have no idea about the possible horrible problems that come with being drunk, and especially when you throw driving into the mix. Yes, a lot of angry people, but everyone is alive.</p>