My father wants Princeton, Ivys

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Hello. I'm a junior this year and I've been looking at some colleges. For some reason I've been feeling drawn toward the South (I live in NJ), and I've been looking at schools such as Vanderbilt, Washington & Lee, Wake Forest, and some in or near Boston like BC and Holy Cross. My father, a lawyer, is somewhat of a know-it-all and says that it's ridiculous that I would even look at schools in TN because "people in Tennessee are weird" (what?!) and that I have to go to a well-known, prestigious school. I love Princeton just as much as the next person, but there is about a 1% chance that I would be accepted there. My father does not understand this. He also says that I could "definitely get into Georgetown" (um... no.) and that "Vanderbilt is not a good school. You are undershooting if you go there" (again... just.. no.) His grandfather and father went to Wesleyan, but he was rejected there. Based on reading different books & what not, Wesleyan is completely different from what I'm looking for in a college. Basically my father's theory is that if I don't go to UPenn, Princeton, or Wesleyan I should just go to either Rutgers or TCNJ. I think this is because he's always lived in either NJ, PA, or NY and is pretty much ignorant about people in other areas of the country. My SAT score the 1st time w/o studying was 2100 (71CR/68M/71W), and you can see my other stats here if you want: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=147952%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=147952&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So, what I'm wondering is... what do I do? I try to tell him that it's not as easy as he thinks to get into elite schools but he just ignores me. Should I just let him live in dreamland until he's shocked next year when I don't get into an amazingly prestigious school?</p>

2

<p>It might be best if you kind of agree with him. No point in arguing at this time. It's an uncertain, tense process and he (and perhaps you) is undoubtedly nervous for you. Apply to a bunch of schools, and he will see who is right and who is wrong, admissions-wise. See if you can get him to go on some college visits with you. Explain to him specifically what you like about the southern schools. This will actually help you clarify things for yourself, thus helping when you go to write answers to questions on your applications. Good luck!</p>

3

<p>Could you talk to your GC about it?</p>

<p>Since you go to a "very competitive private school", your GC undoubtedly has experience working with parents like your Dad. Can you confidentially discuss this issue with your GC?</p>

4

<p>Not really. The remaining GC at my school is not very helpful, and my old GC recently quit because of family issues and they haven't found a replacement yet.</p>

5

<p>I see.</p>

<p>Well, let's wait and see what other people here say. </p>

<p>If you aren't fully satisfied with the answers you get here, I can ask my son's GC. I have confidence in her. My son is now a freshman in college. He went to a suburban, highly competitive public high school in New Jersey and I know that his GC is quite familiar with this issue.</p>

6

<p>maybe this article will help:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-02-13-college-applications_x.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-02-13-college-applications_x.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

7

<p>Have your dad visit this site and read the stats of those he got into Princeton and other ivies the last few years. The stats don't lie and a lawyer should get it. The biggest issue is to discuss whether he's willing to pay for private colleges you can get into so you don't put in effort just to have him shut you down.</p>

8

<p>Sapphire, I was sort of like your father, until my D was deferred from Harvard EA, and that woke me up FAST. (She's now a senior at a top ranked college that she absolutely loves.) I like the poster who said just sort of agree with him for now. It's an excellent short-term strategy. No advice regarding college I gave my D during her junior year was of any value, or had any roots in reality, and I sort of cringe now as I remember it.</p>

<p>When you get further into the process, you can start introducing facts and figures to him (acceptance rates, etc.). You might also want to introduce him to this board. </p>

<p>At the same time, continue doing your research on the schools in other areas of the country, and begin the applications process. Your father will come around and in the end this will all work out, although it may take a few iterations to get there. The key is to introduce facts to him slowly, and, use the rule of three: if you haven't said it to him three times, you haven't said it (he may need some time).</p>

9

<p>Have you been on any college visits? Would you be able to get him to at least visit some of the schools you like? I'm guessing it would be <em>really</em> hard to get him south; but maybe he'd visit BC and Holy Cross? At the time you do the visits, carry USN&WR, Princeton Review,insert your favorite college guidebook here - read him the summaries/descriptions/rankings as you go along. Let him drink in the info sessions and tours. Visit Princeton and Penn with him as well.</p>

<p>There are no guarantees, but I think this will give him a concrete view of the landscape out there. It may open his mind. And if he begins to accept that there is a valid world of schools out there - between his "extremes" of Princeton-TCNJ (nothing against the latter) - then maybe he can start to open up to other geographic locations.</p>

<p>If you have no breakthroughs with your dad prior to application time, I think I'd suggest you go ahead and apply to <em>his</em> list and to <em>yours.</em></p>

<p>We always say here on cc that seniors change a lot between August and April of their senior years. Who's to say their parents can't do the same?</p>

10

<p>Ah yes, Princeton Review. He did read about some of the colleges in there, and mostly the only thing he thought was relevant was the Quality of Life Rating, which is fine but... for example, Holy Cross has a QofL rating of 65 or so. He took this to mean that Holy Cross is a "horrible" school which I don't think is the case at all. On the other hand, I showed him one of the colleges on my list (Rhodes College in TN) which has a QofL rating of 99, but like I mentioned above, he is completely ignorant about any other area of the country so he doesn't care.</p>

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<p>My husband went to Princeton - loved it but sometimes thinks a LAC would have been better for him. Our son got in to a highly selective U. in the south - Emory. He is thrilled and it is Div. III. Important to him because he is a 3 sport athlete. He knows this will be a better fit than an Ivy. And believe me, not easy to get in. You should consider more ecs., community service, etc. Schools like that. And definitely show lots of interest. We are from PA; he visited, ordered the DVD, wrote great essays very relevant to the school. And applied early. Ivies, in this day and age, are a crapshoot. No harm in applying but try to narrow your choices and visit! Our daughter just graduated in May from Lafayette - great fit for her - honors thesis award, etc. Worked closely with profs. Now applying to Columbia and GW grad. school. Lafayette gave her the confidence and focus.</p>

12

<p>Do you want to swim in college? Are you being recruited at all?</p>

13

<p>Humor him, don't alienate him. You have more than one battle to fight here. Yes, it's silly for your dad to reject colleges based on things he's heard, or on vague impressions formed 30 years ago, but that's his status at this point. He'll learn, maybe.</p>

<p>The bigger battle may be that he expects to tell you what to do and have you comply, like a good catholic girl. You'll need to deal with this. A confrontational approach may make him stubborn, and prone to ultimatums. I suggest the subtle sideways approach - show respect for his opinions, but make no commitments. </p>

<p>At this point, all you are doing is compiling a list of possibilities. Keep an open mind, and compile his suggestions, plus your own and those of your friends, counselor and coaches, into a list of 20-30 schools. Try to sort out your priorities - athletics, academic atmosphere, a particular major, college culture, location, size, religious affiliation, extra curriculars, etc. Talk to your dad about what you are looking for in a school, and listen to his input. He may know quite a bit about alumni business connections, for example. Also, be sure you have serious talks about finances; your expectations and his could be far apart. You may as well know what to expect. </p>

<p>Over the next six months, you should wind up with a much shorter list, but have solid reasons for each school being on it. (When up against a lawyer, it's always wise to prepare a good argument.) Keep one or two of his favorites, but also keep an eye on your proportion of reach, match and safety schools.</p>

<p>At some time, you should peruse the common data sets for your prospective colleges. They publish very convincing numeric data that will convey just how selective the admissions process has become.</p>

14

<p>Same as most of the above. Keep doing your thing, gathering information, but it doesn't make sense to get into a big argument right now. Listen to him (you don't have to agree, but you also don't have to disagree) and try to have discussions on non-specific topics like cost, activities you're looking for, possible majors, etc. Maybe make a deal or two ("I'll visit Weleyan and Princeton with an open mind if you'll visit Rhodes and Vandy with an open mind"). As the list gets narrowed down, you should have a much better focus as to what you're looking for. </p>

<p>Regarding Rhodes, any chance your Dad is of the right age to have fond memories of watching Dave Wottle (their admissions dean) in the Olympics? It may mean nothing to you, but it may be worth a shot mentioning it to your dad :)</p>

15

<p>Thanks for the replies so far everyone! :)</p>

<p>NJres- at this point, I would prefer not to swim in college. this might change, but either way I would be fine going to a college that's a good fit for me overall, but where swimming wouldn't be an option.</p>

<p>Iderochi- that's very interesting! I will definitely mention it to him.</p>

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<p>Id!!! So that's where he is!! "fond memory" would be an understatement. More like, "firmly etched".... oh look at him kick!!! he might even take the bronze..... woh! maybe even silver.... OHMYGODICANTBELIEVITHEWONTHEGOLDMEDAL!!!!!!!</p>

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<p>Yeah, we haven't visited (and probably won't for a variety of reasons unless I drag the kid there) -- but several of the parents here have commented on it. Apparently the students/young employees in the Rhodes admisssion department are quite amused that oldies like us STILL whisper "um, is that THE Dave Wottle?".</p>

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<p>Places like Emory, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Rice, and Northwestern are great choices. I think he needs to grab a copy of USNEWS to see the stats of people getting into these places. Admissions has changed a lot in the last 30 years.</p>

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<p>My Mom is kind of the same way. She thinks my straight As are enough to get me into Princeton or Yale, FOR SURE.</p>

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<p>If you don't already have viewbooks for the schools you are interested in, go on their websites and request info. I don't know about Rhodes in particular, but my kids were interested mostly in smaller schools (LACs) and their viewbooks really did a good job of highlighting the positives. They include information clearly aimed at convincing parents that they are worth the price. Leave them out for Dad to see.</p>