My parents think no non-Ivy school is worth going

Parents Forum
41

<p>I’m a little confused about why you applied to all these other schools that your parents apparently find unacceptable now. I know they are far away, and you are here in the US, but did you have any discussion with them prior to applying to the non-Ivies?</p>

<p>Also… just like you need a few days to think about this, your parents might calm down a bit with a break of a few days from the discussion. Start your next conversation as calmly as you can, and do your best to stay calm. If they bring up the Ivies (again), say, “Yes, I am disappointed about that, too. But we should focus on the acceptances that I do have.”</p>

<p>Another thought… you said they were pushing NYU before they changed their minds. Do you remember the arguments they were making for it? You can say, “I was thinking about NYU, and it seems like it has the advantages of … <blah, blah,=”" blah=“” --=“” whatever=“” they=“” were=“” saying=“” the=“” advantages=“” before=“” spun=“” out=“” of=“” control=“” on=“” whole=“” topic=“”>."</blah,></p>

42

<p>NYU has the worst financial aid system out of all USA colleges.</p>

43

<p>It sounds like the OP’s family isn’t going to qualify for need-based financial aid anywhere anyway, whether the system is good or bad.</p>

44

<p>Apparently you misunderstood the point of my post, DadWith2Sons. </p>

<p>Hmmm. I think the parents are Asian, since the OP is and doesn’t say he’s adopted & from another culture.</p>

<p>Therefore, I know what a gap year would mean in that culture. The point is that parents who are “disappointed,” in any culture, have to be confronted with the realism of What Are the Options Now? Not to dwell in the Unreality of what is no longer currently possible in real time. And they often have to be confronted with the clearly less palatable options so that they are forced to articulate what is more palatable.</p>

<p>If employment is unrealistic/not possible, or opposes long-term goals, then that narrows the choices.
If a gap year or some other alternative is tantamount to a family admission of failure, or cannot be optimized in certain environments, then rejection of that also narrows the choices.</p>

<p>etc.</p>

<p>It’s a process of eliminating the irrational (impossible, impractical, clearly undesirable) from the rational.</p>

<p>The subject of the original post is parental disappointment and the stalemate that is causing the student in moving forward with his life.</p>

45

<p>One suggestion you might try when you talk to your parents next time: “My advisor thinks I should go to NYU because Stern is so good, but my English teacher thinks I’d be crazy to turn down Echols. My Science teacher is urging me to choose Georgia Tech. What do you think?” If you don’t have teachers telling you these things, go talk to some of your teachers, and they almost certainly will.</p>

46

<p>If you want to do international business, you should seriously consider American. My d. (who is graduating this May, in three years), has worked with a senior official of the World, Bank, has an global internship with KPMG (one of three awarded - there were 200 applicants, including applicants from Wharton, Stern, Georgetown, etc.), and worked in both Jordan and India during her undergraduate days. The career center and advising is extraordinary (said to be among the top 3 in the nation), and the integration of the Business School with the School for International Service provides academic opportunities that many more highly “ranked” schools can only dream about.</p>

47

<p>This is a classic case why I hate those idiotic college rankings, because there are people stupid enough to believe them. Business Week’s rankings, for example, represent some attempt to talk about ‘bang for the buck’, rather then the overall education, so sometimes a cheaper school, like a state school, can outrank a school like MIT because it is cheaper. Likewise, USNWR rankings are based in criteria they decide, they use things like acceptance rates, sat scores, polls of people and such to determine their rankings, which may or may not have much to do with what the impact of an education at the school has. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, OP comes from a culture and country where where you go to school means pretty much everything, which is true in many Asian countries, literally what level of job you can get depends to an incredible amount of what school you went to (in fact, in many cases, getting into the school matters, what you do there doesn’t always matter much).
This kind of misconception in the music world, a lot of Asian music students, especially from Korea, think that for example getting into Juilliard, because it has ‘the name’ means that if their kid goes there, they will become the next big thing…and in music, where you went to school only matters in terms of how well they train you, when you audition or establish a career it is all about how you do on an audition, they don’t look at your college…in reality, many of the schools the OP got into will do them well if they want to head into finance or business careers, or in the case of tech, Georgia Tech is a fantastic school. </p>

<p>I think a lot IMO depends on what the OP plans on doing. If they plan on heading back to Korea, then it may be wise to figure out which school would have more credence back there, and I suspect that NYU, especially in business, is well known, it is one of the top business schools around, it has for a number of years. I would find articles about the various schools, especially if you can find things in Korean business magazines and such, that might sway them.</p>

<p>if the OP plans to stay in the US, then it may be wise to start showing your parents alumni of NYU and what they have done (NYU generally brags about them), heavy hitters all over the place, and same with the other schools. The problem is they probably are convinced that the US works the same way as Korea, but it doesn’t, with some exceptions, once you are out there where you went to college doesn’t matter much. </p>

<p>One idea I will float out for the OP as an option is to stress to the parents that these days more and more it depends on where you go to grad school…and if you go to NYU, UVA, American, wherever, that if you do well in school, that you can probably get into a top business MBA program at Harvard, Yale, Kellog, etc, all the ‘top schools’, and that will open doors around the world including investment banking, it is easier to get into an investment bank with an MBA from Harvard, Wharton, etc, then with a UG from an Ivy. </p>

<p>And here is a thought from left field: If you want to go into finance, think about majoring, not in finance, but in the mathematical side of things. Investment bankers are a dime a dozen in comparison to quantitative analysts aka “quants”, these are the people who build the sophisticated mathematical models that are used for trading strategies in all the trading and financial areas, and they are relatively rare and pretty high paid…you could even conceivably go to a place like Georgia Tech, get a degree in math (or better, a hybrid math/finance degree with work in quantitative analysis), and come out and do really well:).</p>

<p>I wish you luck, hopefully this helped.</p>

48

<p>I was in nearly the same situation, but my dad has seen first hand what UVA can do. Thus, my colleges were limited to the Ivys and UVA :D</p>

<p>You will be seeing me at UVA next year!</p>

49

<p>As much as I would like to meet UVAorBust in person (believe me, shame I couldn’t spot you last weekend), I would feel pretty confined in a traditional college environment. My first choices, Columbia and UChicago, were both in big cities.</p>

50

<p>Is cost a factor for the OP?</p>

51

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</p>

<p>Really? Is this an actual fact? Have you compared the financial aid systems of “all” USA colleges?
(and is it relevant here?)</p>

<p>OP- you have some great options, is there anyone (adult) that you know who can talk to your parents? I hope it works out for you.</p>

52

<p>^^Yes, but the problem is that my parents wouldn’t tell me what they are willing to spend. I know they have enough money in my college fund, but I don’t know whether they are stretching their retirement/etc. budget too much to send me to college.</p>

<p>^I am talking to different teachers and my college counselor.</p>

53

<p>lullinatalk, are you sure you want a big city enviroment? Living in NY, and going to school in the city, has completely shut me off from the city. I do like to go down to NYC to try out restaurants, that is about it. Make sure it is what you really want, because after 4 years of it, I’d rather not go to college than go to college in NYC.</p>

54

<p>I grew up in a busy city (approximately the size of Philadelphia, although not as big as NYC), and now I live in a rural area that you can call a college town. Charlottesville was rather disappointing when I visited. I’m not big on frats and partying, I’m that person who likes to hang out with a small group of friends in a bar, coffee shop, whatever. Also, concerts. I can go to a concert literally every weekend and not get tired of doing that.</p>

55

<p>It seems to me like you would fit in very well at NYU.</p>

56

<p>lullinatalk,</p>

<p>I think you were on the NYU forum before? NYU Stern is really up there with the Ivys when it comes to placement in the top investment banks, accounting/ financial companies.</p>

<p>Stern students may even have an edge because they can continue with some internships P/T during the school year. The starting salaries, along with bonuses for some of these companies mean that the top performing Stern students can reach a relatively high salary early on after graduation from Stern UG (without the MBA). This is the one school where the massive debt or cost of acquiring a NYU education can be paid off relatively earlier than other schools in NYU, for the diligent student at Stern.</p>

<p>The NYC setting does sound ideal for you. So many cafes, nice eateries to enjoy and socialize at.
Concerts, wow! No better except for maybe jazz and blues music in New Orleans. Though NYC has the wonderful Lincoln Center Jazz Festival series (cheaper or free events for students here and at the Brooklyn Academy of Music). </p>

<p>When I was growing up in NYC, NYU was not even considered as a safety school by the students at my specialized high school. However, in the decades since, NYU has really risen in reputation in terms of quality education (Stern finance is certainly on a par with the very top undergrad business programs in the USA; Business Week ratings seem really off). An international ranking system has NYU higher and NYU is definitely expanding globally with the new Shanghai NYU coming in 2013 after the recent start of Abu Dhabi NYU.</p>

<p>You should present a stronger case for this really top notch program. ONLY if you are OK with entering business and finance, specifically for the top jobs and opportunities in NYC (which is of course the financial center of the USA and the world, along with London, etc.)</p>

<p>Regarding your parents, they seem to have a hard time hearing you because their own needs are so much stronger. 1) Your father needing to live through you his dreams of super success as a college student at a top ranked “Ivy” school (without realizing that the field of study can be just as competitive or even better than in some non-Ivy schools, reference Post #46 upthread). 2) Culturally, a lot of Asians from Asian countries equate top success only with the “name” of the Ivys. They are not aware of or fail to acknowledge the nuanced aspects of success, for instance college drop outs can be more successful than a graduate from a top school. And look at your parents, they certainly are doing well monetarily to afford such good education for you, despite their lack of a college education (at least with your father who found college unaffordable).</p>

<p>While I have no doubt you can be successful (if you want to measure it by ultimate economic success), I am more concerned about your well being and self-concept. Parents who are so caught up in their own (or culturally influenced) rigid and narrow definition of what success is at this point in your life means that your real strengths and many years of hard work are not acknowledged and even belittled (in the messages sent). It is very important you take to heart the positive feedback by posters here who have affirmed over and over again how well you have done to have the college choices you do have.</p>

<p>This does not solve the problem of your parents’ inability to hear you for now, but it is my reminder to you. You are a very accomplished and successful person at this juncture compared to your peers. :)</p>

<p>The worst thing would be to follow in your father’s footsteps and feel constantly like you have not been a success because you did not attend college (or did not attend the right college).</p>

57

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<p>Yes, it is relevant here since the OP doesn’t yet know if he will end up needing financial aid. NYU is ranked #1 for highest student debt combined up to date. </p>

<p>[Gawker</a> — Today’s gossip is tomorrow’s news](<a href=“http://gawker.com/#!5615933/the-top-ten-universities-for-student-debt]Gawker”>http://gawker.com/#!5615933/the-top-ten-universities-for-student-debt)</p>

<p>[NYU</a> Has Highest Total Student Debt in the Nation · NYU Local](<a href=“http://nyulocal.com/on-campus/2010/08/18/nyu-has-highest-student-debt-in-the-nation/]NYU”>http://nyulocal.com/on-campus/2010/08/18/nyu-has-highest-student-debt-in-the-nation/)</p>

<p>[Perdido</a> Street School: NYU Students Carry Most Debt Of Any Private College In Country](<a href=“http://perdidostreetschool.blogspot.com/2011/02/nyu-students-carry-most-debt-of-any.html]Perdido”>Perdido Street School: NYU Students Carry Most Debt Of Any Private College In Country)</p>

58

<p>^ That does not mean that NYU has the worst financial aid system of any college.</p>

<p>Yes, it is expensive. But NYU does NOT promise to meet full need. They were very upfront about this, especially to ED applicants. I think a worse system is one in which full need is promised and then not delivered (I know people who have been burned by this at other schools). </p>

<p>Sorry, I did not mean to hijack this thread.</p>

<p>Anyway the OP has been accepted into Stern which is a great investment. Evolving’s post above is excellent.</p>

59

<p>I teach at a community college and I have a lot of Korean students, so I am somewhat familiar with your predicament. Several of the males are a bit older because they did their military service first before starting college. I would see this as a chance for you to take control of your own life and not let your parents’ unrealistic expectations cloud your decisions and your life. Just read all the threads on student loan debt before you blame your parents for not wanting to go into debt. Read the stories of NYU graduates (easily found on this website and the Internet) who face crippling student loan debts of over $100,000 that will haunt them for decades. It seems like you just don’t “like” UVa, but that is an emotional response, and college choice should be more pragmatic. It’s four short years of your life, but you could hijack your future by racking up huge debt. This Korean (Asian) obsession with the Ivy League is based on a fantasy of instant status, wealth, and success. Many of the most successful entrepreneurs in Asia did not even go to or finish college. In Asia it’s about the brand, like Louis Vuitton, Rolex, or BMW. But you live here- you don’t have to buy into it.</p>

60

<p>hi lullinatalk,
~1st CONGRATS on all your wonderful colleges acceptances!
~ I am an Asian parent & I have met many many Asian parents who think their kids have to get into an Ivy (for crying out loud!), rest assure that many other Asian parents ( here & oversea) will understand that there are many other “top” school in this country. </p>

<p>~ I have a kid who will be going to UVA this fall & we’re soooooo excited beyond words.
Believe me, UVA >>IS<< one of the very best in the country & it has lots of things you can do ( concerts,groups activities etc)
~ Maybe because I am an Asian parent, I may understand ( just a bit) about how your parents feel…this is how I may talk to them:
~ If “name brand” school is how they feel about college, show them “newspaper media” printout about how “well known/famous” your choice of college is. For ex; tell them UVA is a “Public Ivy” & explain to them what a “public ivy” is…once they know it is an “ivy” , their view may change.</p>

<p>~ same as GaTech ( my kid got accepted there too! ), tell them it is rank #7 in the country & that CEO from many USA companies graduated from there, including Cola & many others.</p>

<p>~you’ll find similar things to “show off” to your folks regarding NYU as well.
~ tell them / show them in prints or email, the salary of graduates from UVA ( used only as an example) so they will know their “return on tuition investment” later in 4 years.
~ tell them your career plan or whether you plan to go to grad school .</p>

<p>~ many times, when Asain parents hear about their own kid telling them about going to grad school & plan to get a master degree / Ph.d /specific degree, they will get sooooo excited & think “oh-this-is-so-good!”
~ this MAY steer them to side with you.</p>

<p>~ do put a deposit in your choice of college.</p>

<p>~ who “is” the decision maker in your household? sometimes its the mom even in Korea ( & dad listen to mom when it comes to $ matter ), if so, talk to her & let her talk to dad.
~ good luck & CONGRATS again! ( choose UVA — I am biased )</p>