@Plotinus, are CAS calculators allowed? (True confession, I have 6 graphing calculators, but no CAS…is there an app for that?) And I feel like at some point we should continue this in a private message, LOL!
I still think, even with the calculator being allowed for that section, that in general, a student needs to have a better handle on what the algebra is being used for on the new SAT than the old.
The College Board site has been down all day. As mentioned in my post here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19200999/#Comment_19200999 - its a sad state of affairs for a huge site like CB to be down ALL DAY.
@PAMom21
CAS calculators have been allowed for many years on all CB tests (including Math Level 2 and AP Calc.) They are not allowed on the ACT or IB. Don’t leave home without it.
Good morning – as some of us prepare for snowmagedden, i wanted to share some data that was released by CobbCounty GA:http://www.cobbk12.org/news/2016/PSAT2015.pdf
Excerpt:
Approximately 47% of Cobb 11th graders took the PSAT.
Statewide, only 28% of 11th graders took the test, and nationally 51% of 11th graders took
the test. Cobb students received an average total score of 1113 exceeding the state and
national averages of 1018 and 1009, respectively. The average Evidence-Based Reading and
Writing (ERW) score was 562, and the average math score was 551.
There are several tables in the results published - here is a bit of info:
Table 2. Eleventh grade PSAT scores for Cobb County School District high schools including
district, state, and national averages.
Number Participation Mean Scores
Test Takers Rate Total ERW Math
Cobb 3,223 47% 1113 562 551
Georgia 30,970 28% 1018 512 505
National Tested: 1,724,416 51% 1009 507 502
To compare the performance of potential National Merit Scholars, Table 3 lists the
average of the top 100 scores for 11th graders at each school. In this comparison, Walton
had the highest total average score of 1453 followed by Wheeler with an average total of
1378.
Here is the 2014 report:
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/09/11/NatMeritGA.pdf
Walton had about 25 & Wheeler had 14 National Merit semi-finalists in 2014.Pope had 4 and Lassiter had 8.
http://www.fairtest.org/sites/default/files/NationalMeritSemifinalist2016-scores.pdf
The cut off was 218 for GA. Testmaster are estimating GA will go to 216 as a cut off - does that imply a total score range of around 1440-1480 or so?? Does anyone this this strong performance means it is less likely that the cut off will go down from 218 to 216 or does 216 sound about right - or no way to estimate?
Thanks @CA1543 This actually REALLY surprises me:
More than 6,800 Cobb 10th graders or 80% of the 10th grade took the PSAT.
Approximately 47% of Cobb 11th graders took the PSAT. Statewide, only 28% of 11th graders took the test, and nationally 51% of 11th graders took the test.
So there were more 10th graders taking the test than 11th graders at your school??? Why would that be? Make no sense to me.
It makes pretty good sense to me. I can’t speak for other schools but in ours, the school pays for 9th and 10th graders to take the test for data collection. However, some rule or policy (not sure which) prevents them from paying for 11th graders to because of the NMSC. Very few announcements were made regarding how to or when to sign up and pay for the test. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if we had a pretty low percentage of 11th graders take the test overall. The IB students mostly did, but many were highly motivated by the possibility of scholarships.
I am not in GA but in NY so I am just researching vis the web - seems total 11th graders was about 1.7mill. - up about 200,000 from the past amount of $1.5mill. I am surprised if national amount is really 51% - seems high to me but that’s what is being reported.
@CA1543 Seems like cutoff for GA will be around 218. Doesn’t bode well that an average top 100 scores of a school with around 30 NMSFs (assuming number went up from 2014) is 1453. That means around 50th highest score was 1453, meaning top 30 scores cutoff was around 1470. Doesn’t bode well for people wishing for not so high cut offs. Knowing average score of top 50 would have been more useful but . . .
Apologies if this has been addressed before in terms of the concordance/percentile discussion on this thread I found this on the CB website:
“To prepare for the redesigned SAT score scale, the College Board conducted a scaling study between December 2014 and February 2015.The purpose of the scaling study was to collect data in order to establish preliminary raw-to-scale score conversions for the redesigned SAT, PSAT 10, and PSAT 8/9. These raw-to-scale conversions are tables that relate raw number correct scores to scores on the score scale (e.g., 200–800) and that relate the scale scores across the SAT, PSAT/NMSQT, PSAT 10, and PSAT 8/9 in order to show measures of growth via a vertical scale.The resulting vertical scale provides a score system that allows for direct comparison of student test scores across grade levels within a content area.
Concordance tables were developed using the Equipercentile Concordance method, which relates the scores on each test that have the same percentile rank. For example, the score at the 80th percentile on the current SAT score distribution would correspond to the score at the 80th percentile of the redesigned SAT score distribution. Concordance tables will be finalized after the first administration of the redesigned SAT.
The data were collected between Dec. 8, 2014, and Feb. 20, 2015. Seven forms were included in the study and the target sample was a nationally representative sample of 90,000 students across grades 8 to 12. College Board psychometrics staff completed all scoring and scaling analyses during the summer of 2015.”
So it seems a research sample of 90,000 testers was used to develop the prelim tables and the methodology was the “Equipercentile Concordance” method. I am not a stats guy, so I do not know what this method means or involves but plain sense tells me they were matching up percentiles between the two tests. Something seems to have gone very wrong at the 97-99+% range though. But maybe not and perhaps someone with more knowledge could shed light on this. Sorry again, if this horse has been overly beaten…
The data from Cobb county is interesting. In Georgia, the state cutoff for the last few years has always been the 3 or 4th from the bottom of the 99 percentile ranks on the SI table . On this year’s SI table, that corresponds to a 207 or a 208. Let’s compare that with the results from Wheeler and Walton high schools.
The top 100 Walton students averaged 713 in ERW, and 740 math. (713*2+740)/10 yields an average SI of 216.6 for the top 100 students. Wheeler’s averages of 678 ERW and 700 math yield an average SI of 205.6 for the top 100 students.
Walton had 25 NMSF last year, Wheeler had 10. If the state’s cutoff is 207 or 208, they are going to far exceed last years totals.
I continue to think that the new SI table is completely bogus. Testmasters cutoffs might even be too low. A Georgia cutoff of 218 (or maybe higher) might yield NMSF numbers that match previous years. A cutoff of 207 or 208 is not credible. 218 is well into the 99+ part of the new SI table, which means that SI table is also not credible.
33,430 juniors took the PSAT in Georgia the previous year. http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2015/GA_15_05_02_01.pdf
It looks like about 2500 less juniors took the exam in GA this year.
With 1.7 million juniors that means top 50,000 commended and up will be top 3% - that suggests a cut-off of 200-201 if the SI tables are accurate. National data is provided on the state summaries so we can at least figure out how much the SI tables are off from actual at that point and then adjust the SI tables up or down accordingly to arrive at a better estimate for the commended cut-off.
Addendum: I should add that that while the majority of juniors are going to be “eligible” for NM competition, not all will be. Not sure there needs to be an adjustment there, however. The vast majority of them will be college bound in their third year, etc.
@websensation if 1470 is the cut-off total score for the top 30 that may result in an SI cut-off as high as 220 for GA.
Thanks @CA1543 for posting that link.
Looking at the GA data, I wonder if the actual #s are going to remain fairly stable. Around a 218 would not be an abnormal cut off for GA.
Probably old news, but it looks like PrepScholar revised their cutoff predictions.
http://blog.prepscholar.com/national-merit-semifinalist#comment-389888163
I might be wrong, but wouldn’t just about ALL of the Walton test takers replace the Wheeler test takers, except for maybe the tippity top? In other word 35 Walton NMSF and 4 Wheelers. Instead of 25 and 14.
220 IL?
@Mamelot Yes but you get the idea. It’s undeniable that “the top 100 Walton students averaged 713 in ERW, and 740 math. (713*2+740)/10 yields an average SI of 216.6 for the top 100 students. Wheeler’s averages of 678 ERW and 700 math yield an average SI of 205.6 for the top 100 students.” That means the AVERAGE score of top 100 scores yields 216.6. Based on this, I would think the AVERAGE score of top 60 scores (which I am guessing is close to 30th score) would AT LEAST be 218 SI. Therefore, I am very sure that the cutoff for GA would be AT LEAST 218 SI. I don’t know what this means for top scoring states such as CA, MA, DC and NJ. This is the best indication so far for me that people who guessed relatively high score cutoff are correct.
It’s better to use Walton’s stats because they had 600 students, and I am guessing their number of NMSFs would go up to around 30 this year.
Some of the mid-to-mid/high range scores might shift up a point or two. Question is whether they would have done that anyway, even under the old test. Helpful analysis, @websensation so thank you - and to @CA1543 for providing the data.
@Mamelot Based on this, I have a hard time believing that GA’s cutoff score will be 216 or below. I am 99% convinced that GA’s cutoff SI score will be AT LEAST 217 or higher. My bet is 218 or higher for GA. This is NOT based on a guess but on the stats that CA1543 provided. Again, I have no idea what this means for higher scoring states such as CA, MA, DC and NJ, but it does indicate to me that cutoffs for mid high scoring states will be 1 or 2 points higher than even revised estimates given out by Prepmaster or such companies.
My guess for CA was 220 or higher, but based on this stat, I am revising the cutoff for CA to 221 or higher. For DC and NJ, 222 or higher.