<p>Glad everything worked out. Think you took exactly the right tactic, at 17 kids are still kids, they need guidance, not drill instructors. You nudged him and he also came around on his own.</p>
<p>Maybe start the college visits with the local CC. “Son, it’s fine if you’re not ready to study for the SAT, write essays, do your summer reading… You can go to the community college and not face any of that stress. It’s OK, really. Maybe we, your parents, are expecting too much of you.”</p>
<p>francie,
you have a good son there! and he has a great mom! trust your instincts, they are solid. and he knows he can trust you to be there for him. best of luck in the year ahead–it was all very stressful for me and my son, but now i look back on it as a very special time that we shared. wishing you the same and great acceptances and scholarships to his first choice :-)</p>
<p>Thanks everybody!</p>
<p>2bizee: Heh, I actually use that technique on my kids all the time. “Hey, you know, you could just go to Santa Cruz and chillax for four years,” and “There’s always Academy of Art University, they don’t even require a portfolio…” Hehehe.</p>
<p>Your post mirrors mine written over a month ago. The advice here was to back off and let her enjoy her summer. We just got back from driving down down to southern CA to tour USC and UCLA and I think she’s starting to feel a LITTLE more enthused. It’s helpful to hear all the deadlines from someone other than her mom. 
Anyway, for now my biggest concern is that she studies for her repeated SAT, two subject tests and the ACT in October. Frankly, I’m looking forward to school starting. She’s very organized and stays on task during school. Again, she would rather listen to her teachers than her nagging mom. ;)</p>
<p>Good luck! I’m sure he’ll get what needs to be done eventually.</p>
<p>I know for the most part everything’s worked out, but I do have to ask… why on earth is an 1870 a not-acceptable score on the SAT? From everything I’ve heard (from my friends and from others; just to clarify, I’m about to be a college freshman), an 1870 is a high score.</p>
<p>You just described my husband and me. In our family, I’m the firmer parent and tend to give more of those “orders”. I’m really hoping that in the long run it will pay off. My daughter will be a senior when h.s. school starts again in 2½ weeks. She’s got a very full plate and I know the next few months are going to be overwhelming for her. But, I feel it’s still my job as her parent to help her stay on track, if only to be her “personal manager” and offer to help organize or research something online. My husband on the other hand, is the laid back parent. I’m actually kind of surprised. He’s been an intensive h.s. math teacher for 25 years, so he knows the workloads and deadlines students have. He’s a Stanford grad and has a UCLA MBA. If anyone, you would think that HE would be the parent who is taking the lead here. In fact, I’m a bit disappointed in the laid back role he’s taking. I was hoping he would be more supportive of my intentions and concerns. But, his reply is always the same, “She’ll get into a college, so there’s no need to worry about it now”. Sure! She’ll get into “a” college. But, with all her hard work and good grades for the past 11 years, I feel she can do better than just “a” college. Besides that, time is of the essence. In a matter of a few months many of her applications will be DUE. Arrrgghhh!</p>
<p>I’m sending your post to him. ;-)</p>
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<p>"No, but seriously, I think that if you don’t assert yourself as a parent, your son will start to slowly lose that respect for you. It’s subtle - and I know because I am a rising college freshmen and one parent is always firm, always the leader giving orders that I sometimes agree with, sometimes hate. The other is like, yeah go do whatever, you’ll get into a good college or a decent one, either way you’ll be fine. I love them both, but it’s the first that made me who I am. </p>
<p>So the point is always put your foot down. Don’t be scared of conflict. In wolf tribes, if the pup didn’t act right, the mother would bite it or not feed it or something, and ultimately that would be best for the pup."</p>
<p>This reminds me of when I was 18 and my room was in huge need of a “makeover”. It was to the point where it was becoming so overwhelming I had no idea where to begin. So, in turn, my whole life felt cluttered. I began to feel depressed just walking in there. And yet I couldn’t seem to motivate myself to do it what it took to get the job done.</p>
<p>So, one day my mom came into my bedroom and literally started ripping old movie magazine posters off of my wall. Then she started throwing stuff out of my closet. I was aghast at her seemingly cold-hearted method of “de-cluttering” my room. In fact, I began crying and carrying on. But, ya know, it’s exactly what I needed—a kick in the rear to get things moving. Soon after, I got into “cleaning mode” and before long I was painting my room, hanging new curtains, new bedspread, rugs, etc. etc. I felt like a new person! All it took was a “jump start” from my mom.</p>
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<p>From Francie (OP):</p>
<p>This thread has taken off in several directions from the original question–which is great–it has been an interesting ride. Just to update for anyone keeping up with the OP…</p>
<p>Before I do, I’d like to observe that each kid and each family is different–what works for one family and student may not click with another. The strong opinions have been helpful as well as the more balanced ones. Like everyone who reads this, I’ve been able to apply some points of view to our situation, but not others.</p>
<p>I’m relieved and happy, and here’s how it transpired… I decided that even though DS is now 17 yrs, and is a dynamite student during the school year, I’m still the parent, and the “Guild Wars” had to go. My formerly witty and articulate son was/is vague, distracted and spaced out–and no, it’s not drugs, it’s over two months of GUILD WARS! I talked to him, using some choice phrases I got from some some of the young posters on this thread (thanks!), gave it some refractory time and came to his room to tell him that he was through with Guild Wars for the summer. Before I could get the words out, he said, “I’m through with Guild Wars for the summer.” In the same day, he started to check out colleges on the web, AND got his Learner’s Permit. He has been volunteering 3 hrs once a week at the senior center. Still needs to get back to SAT studying…</p>
<p>In our case the logic wasn’t enough until he could feel that I was about to back up talk with action. In our case, not saying everyone’s, this 17 yr old still needs parenting.</p>
<p>Probably not much use for this year, but have job application options ready by January and make them think what kind of job they want to do in summer. Both my kids worked for 8 weeks as counselors in summer camps and they loved every minute of it. It was a kind of vacation for them (from school), they made new friends, got a lot of self esteem, independence and money. Not mentioning it looks good on their resume. Nothing to lose…</p>
<p>Yes, it’s very difficult to be parents of an undermotivated high schooler. And we all know that if the senior doesn’t develop that motivation fairly quickly, the top schools will be extremely difficult to get into. We were fortunate enough to convey the urgency of “do or die” time for the SATs and college apps. </p>
<p>We made up some rules which may seem rather harsh to some people, but they were effective in getting the job done:</p>
<p>No TV on school nights.
Limited time on internet, especially facebook, for personal stuff. No limit for school assignments.
Mandatory study on weekends for SAT, minimum 3-5 hours per day.
Limited TV on weekends.
We reviewed all final essays for grammar and spelling. (this may seem overly intrusive to some students, but we figure this would help avoid minor errors and help with the final polish) </p>
<p>With many AP courses in senior year it was crucial that time management be top priority. My daughter finally realized that she really had to push herself if she wanted to get into a top college. There were a lot of heated discussions on essays but at the end of the day, the job got done. I tried to reinforce the fact that we were a team with my D being the main player and we parents being the coaches. Our goal was the same but some tactics varied. The good news is that all the hard work paid off and she’s going to a great college this fall. </p>
<p>My D did get her driver’s license which made life much easier for her and for us. We no longer had to drive her everywhere, but I paid the price by having to drive a scooter to work to free up a car for her. However, it was worth it!</p>
<p>In the final analysis, the student must have self-motivation to reach for the stars! Our job is convey the importance of that.</p>
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<p>Actually, wolf pups get a LOT of leeway in a wolf pack. Adult wolves are very tolerant of their antics. The mother would certainly not refrain from feeding a wayward pup!</p>
<p>“Mandatory study on weekends for SAT, minimum 3-5 hours per day.”</p>
<p>Wow! This seems rather extreme to me. My thoughts are that anyone who needs that much study to get a decent score probably would be better off going to a college that matches their current scores.</p>
<p>“Wow! This seems rather extreme to me. My thoughts are that anyone who needs that much study to get a decent score probably would be better off going to a college that matches their current scores.”</p>
<p>Actually I need to qualify the studying situation. Due to a summer camp, my D only had a few weekends left before the final October SAT, so it was necessary to do some serious studying in order to improve her score. She was able to improve it 130 points which I think really made all the difference in her quest to gain entry into a top college. It paid off.</p>
<p>It depends on what you’re aiming for. Generally, for the top 20 schools, I think 2100 minimum, 700+ for each subject area would be a worthy goal. With so much competition, this score is only a starting point. Check out collegedata.com and you’ll be amazed at the college scores achieved by applicants. And sadly even with high scores, 80%+ will be denied.</p>
<p>Honestly, I dont think your son is any different than the average high school kid that is college bound. Yea sure he may not be doing to much in the summer but summer is the time of year that high school and college kids get to relax and hangout with friends before they go back to school. As far as the SAT, i really dont think that you can study for it, believe me i have seen people that have tried and still do much worse than people who havent. The SAT is not a test where you can study random math and vocab and think you are going to ace it. If you really want your son to do better on the SAT you should have him take the Kaplan review or Princeton review which go over vocab that has been on past SATs, shows how to do odd math problems, tells you the test format, and breaks down what your kid needs to know and what is useless. I took a review and boosted my SAT score from a 1120 to a 1290.</p>
<p>The PSAT/SAT 217/1870 disparity is a problem. There just shouldn’t be that big of a difference. 300 points will keep him out of some schools and make a big difference on possible merit scholarships. Plan to retake this fall.</p>
<p>I am certain I will get a lot of flak about this, but we were able to make peace in our house and stop the nagging by hiring a college counselor.
Yes it costs money, but in the grander scheme of things when we are going to spend tens of thousands on a college education we thought this would be money well spent.
My senior daughter LOVES her private college counselor. The counselor is a young woman who used to work in admissions at a major university.
Now, instead of me nagging my daughter, her counselor emails her to ask if her essays are done, sets deadlines for her applications and follows up on it all. They also discuss testing, scores, extra-curriculars etc.
I am able to talk to the counselor anytime to tell her my concerns and tell her what I think my daughter should be doing. And with the informaiton coming from another person, my daughter listens!!
I could be admitting defeat, and I could be a wimpy mom, but I really know I am not. I am confident about all the other things I have done for and with my children over the years. This just made sense for us and has been worth every penny.</p>
<p>We are in Southern California if anyone wants a referral of the counselor…</p>
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<p>This is a perfectly good reason for hiring a counselor. I tutor math to some kids (some who even have engineers for a father) for that same reason. I can ask about whether homework is done, check on test preparations, ask about test scores and class grades, say things like, “Do you really see yourself as a C student?”–all without being told that I am nagging, being negative or invading someone’s privacy.</p>
<p>I thought kids got their learner’s permit when they were 15?</p>