<p>^ The incentive is, without AP classes (when they are offered by the school) there is basically no chance of getting in to highly selective colleges.</p>
<p>“Several of the schools my senior applied to will not accept AP credit, and do not use weighted grades.”
This sounds like he applied to some ivies/top schools (correct me if I’m wrong). The reason they don’t care about your weighted grades, is because they don’t have to choose. Stanford just received 33500+ applications for 1750 spots. They aren’t picking between course rigor and grades. They can just take the kid that has the course rigor AND the grades AND is an Olympian. And there are more than 2300 of those types.</p>
<p>But yes I agree the 1 C rule is pretty ridiculous (especially with documented reasons…).</p>
<p>I think the incentive is that they will be better prepared for what lies ahead, in every respect… The college board has hard data to support this… That being said, you need to parent with your head and your heart, and I’m sure you will do what you feel is best for your kids… Sounds to me like they are in good hands, keep up the great work of being their biggest advocate :)</p>
<p>Wow - some of this seems a bit frustrating. I can understand setting a guideline, but it’s sounding like they’re not even looking at reasons or essays or anything and just going with the “1 C = rejection” policy. I agree that it does reduce incentive to try to become a NMSF if you know you have the C going into junior year or to drop an AP to make sure you don’t get that C in the first place for future students. My son shouldn’t be affected but I will make sure that parents I know with kids who might be are aware of this thread/trend!</p>
<p>I do understand the frustration and it will continue. Medical schools, for example, do not care what your major is, only GPA and some students will choose a major that is considered more “lenient” in the gradings to achieve this. It does distort the system and frustrating for all the parents that try to encourage curiosity, learning, etc…</p>
<p>Our senior (2013) D had one C as a final grade (her HS transcript only posts final grades). Thankfully, still no NMF rejection letter yet, and we’re glad there is no mail today! But in her NMF essay, she directly addressed her C grade as an “obstacle” she had to overcome in her junior year (dealing with a new, brilliant math teacher who had no HS teaching and very little people skills who was asked to leave midway through 3rd quarter; dealing with the administration, counselors, and other math teachers about the issue; essentially teaching the subject to herself, etc.) I don’t know if that will end up helping her NMF chances or not, but it was an avenue for her to address the issue head on. If the essay prompt next year stays the same, and if a C or 2 remains a hindrance for a NMSF to become a NMF, then perhaps the essay prompt may be a way of addressing the issue head on for current juniors who expect to be NMSFists next year and who have a C or 2 in HS. Just a thought.</p>
<p>My son did math 2 years ahead of grade level, had 3 HS credits before he left JH, 27 hours of AP/dual credit, and the only thing I see it did for him was give him early release in his schedule…and kill his chances for NMF and drop his rank.</p>
<p>"I think the incentive is that they will be better prepared for what lies ahead, in every respect… "</p>
<p>In theory, I agree. In practice, however, it completely depends on the high school and the instructor. My boys have had one or two great AP teachers, and I think as a result of having been in those classes, they might have been slightly better prepared for college classes. However, they have had some terrible AP teachers who did nothing to prepare them for the AP test or for college. Overall, my son who is at a small private college now said that he doesn’t really feel like his AP classes were that beneficial in terms of college preparation. He also feels like the crazy level of work he was assigned in his AP classes was largely busy work and not at all representative of the amount or difficulty of the work he has in his college courses. Again, that varies by high school/teacher, I’m sure. I’ve talked to some kids from more competitive, rigorous high schools who feel like their AP classes were fantastic.</p>
<p>@fredsfam
Yeah it would probably be better if everyone did the absolute bare minimum all the time. Because going above and beyond never has any benefits. Ever.</p>
<p>Would your son have done as well on the PSAT if he had never been challenged in school? Would he have gotten the same education?</p>
<p>Come on people. I understand that you’re frustrated the standards have become marginally tighter this year. But NMF is supposed to be an ACADEMIC honor, not just based on test scores. I think people are equating it too closely with only the PSAT, and feel entitled to the award based on just a PSAT score. There are ~15,000 kids who had the test scores and the grades, and an A/B average is not exactly an unattainable requirement (especially compared to the test score requirement).</p>
<p>NMSF is already a great achievement, and one that’s based basically 100% on test scores. NMF takes into account other factors. You(r kid) already has the award for his PSAT, if the grades/ECs/whatever weren’t up to NMF standards there’s nothing you can do about it. Stop complaining.</p>
<p>Sorry this if this is overly harsh, but the entitled attitude of every person with a rejection letter in this thread is really starting to **** me off.</p>
<p>My daughter is a junior in college and she will be graduating 1 semester early because of the AP credits she was able to start with. Her college accepted around 20 out of 29 credits. She is graduating with a double major. These AP’s allowed that and she also would have had a minor if she had taken more than 15 credits for a few semesters. But again her AP credits allowed her to relax and only take those 15 credits a semester.</p>
<p>By graduating early (because of her efforts in HS) she will be able to work full time to help pay her living expenses and tuition for grad school. She will be working from the beginning of January until August 1 when grad school starts. </p>
<p>Hopefully this will help you to feel better about what is lost by taking AP credit. I regret that so much time in HS was spent doing school work when I felt she should have been having more fun. She disagrees. She needed to challenge herself in HS because that is who she is. She is happy now knowing how HS prepared her for college and about graduating early.</p>
<p>I know that if attending an Ivy this all goes out the window…but hopefully this will help you in some way. I hope you plan to challenge the NMF rejection based on your sons academic record.<br>
Good Luck</p>
<p>Fredsfam, I can see where you are coming from. My son is similar–3 years ahead of grade leve in math and 24 hours of AP/dual credit (21 of AP; 3 of dual credit from a college). I don’t think that Amherst will give him credit for any of these classes. He might be able to start at a higher level in some subjects, but not in ones in his major. Also, our school does NOT weight, so my son could have taken easier , non-AP classes to try to avoid the “risk” of a lower grade, because there is no weighting–no GPA advantage to taking the harder classes. He KNEW all of this going in, but did take the AP classes. Why? Two main reasons: 1) They taught him a lot more and made him a better reader and writer, better ready for college; 2) They helped him to GET IN to a very selective college. As someone noted above, a student has a VERY LOW chance of getting into the top selective colleges without those AP classes. This makes sense. It’s not for presitge. It’s because the selective schools want bright kids who have become better readers and writers by taking the tough classes in HS. In our HS Kid A may take 5 or more Honors and NO AP’s and be valedictorian if he/she has a 4.0; Kid B may take 5-7 AP’s and 5 Honors, get a 3.85, and NOT be valedictorian but have a FAR better chance of getting into a top college. I really do sympathize with you for your son’s missing NM Finalist, and I think it is terrible that one little C can take that away, but in the long run your son is better off for having taken the tough classes, in my opinion.</p>
<p>Nicollec, it all depends on the schools that your current freshman wants. Though it appears that a number of schools are dumping on AP, the one criteria that is ever so importnat when a admissions committee looks at the applicaton is the difficulty of the curriculum. In that very long 5-10 minutes that it takes to assess your student, that is only one of about 10 things that get a "grade’ and it is usually a biggie, especially at highly selective schools. That AP classes are taken, particularly certain ones, is a very clear indication even to the dimmest adimissions officer (and yeah, there are some dimwits there) that the student is taking a challenging course load. By definition it is usually the most challenging course load at most high schools. Maybe Mr Bean’s Special Events class is even more difficult, but the colleges are not likely to know that. They all know what a 5 in AP English means, and in AP BC Calc. Having 9, 10 APs is not a big deal to most of these schools because some of the APs just don’t carry the weight that others do. But 3-5 good solid APs including English and Calc and language can upgrade a transcript. </p>
<p>The incentive in some situations is that by taking difficult courses in highschool, a kid is better prepared for college. Top independent schools no longer brag about getting kids into highly selective schools but willl unequivocally state that their graduates tend to do very well with the transition into college work and also tend to finish college. A big deal, given the graduation rates these days.</p>
<p>I’m sorry your senior did not get a NMS designation, and hopefully no scholarship hinged on it. These days, most of the time you get the designation and that’s it. Maybe if you are one of the top of the top,you get the $2500 scholarship, which for one kid reduced his financial aid, and then it was a problem the next year. Yeah, it happens. Lots of niches and crevices where there are issues that are not widely known.</p>
<p>What is a forum for? Bragging and complaining…I have no brag at this point. Sorry you are tired of hearing it. Will sign off now. Thanks to everyone who put up with me, and I wish everyone the best.</p>
<p>unicameral2013…If you don’t have anything nice to say…</p>
<p>I don’t see it as an entitlement attitude, but more frustration with the way the process works. I understand a parent being upset that an otherwise high achieving student is eliminated from being a finalist because of two grades that are way outside the norm for that student…especially when one of those grades is the result of an especially strict teacher who didn’t give any leeway for a very small mistake. If the student had a different teacher, it could have made a huge difference, financially speaking. </p>
<p>I know that for many kids, whether or not they are a finalist won’t impact their college choice, but for the kids from families like mine, where scholarships are a huge consideration in our kids’ college options, it is a very big deal. Not making finalist eliminates some colleges for those kids. </p>
<p>I realize that there has to be a cutoff somewhere, but the process does seem a little too arbitrary. And I say that as the parent of a child who will likely be a NMF.</p>
<p>l think you are losing sight of the fact that NMF standards are not Stanford’s standards for admission. Also, it is normal for people to be upset when there is an unexpected change in standards. It is the basis for the principle of precedence in the law. Last year apparently upto 4 Cs made it. So, if the rule has changed this year, some people will get upset. Similarly, as m2ck has pointed out home schoolers do not face this challenge, so there also seems to be a double standard. These are normal concerns and criticisms.</p>
<p>I think you are losing sight of the fact that NMF standards are whatever the hell the NM Corp wants them to be, and necessarily can only be exactly what they are.</p>
<p>Perrizaman, in the first quote I was discussing Stanford’s admissions policies (which yes sorry was off topic). In the second I was discussing the NMF process.</p>
<p>I understand that people were surprised with the tighter standards this year. What is really rustling my jimmies is the sudden jump of several people to “AP classes are useless” “homeschoolers are gaming the system” etc etc etc. And furthermore, I for one don’t think that requiring all As/Bs is unwarranted for a prestigious academic award.</p>
To me, I don’t see how this is at all incongruous with rejecting students who have Cs Ds and Fs on their transcripts. My point is, I understand that people feel like the rug got pulled out from under them with the standards getting tougher this year. But I do think the standards align well with NMC’s mission and goals, and thus are not unwarranted. And it is ridiculous to lash out at AP classes and homeschoolers. That is all.</p>