Fortunately, graduate and professional students seem to manage without these clubs just fine.
I recently attended a funeral for someone who passed. Several of her sorority sisters, her best friends, attended and spoke. One sorority sister even came all the way from Australia (to CA). And they always stayed in touch throughout the years. Two of her friends worked in the same profession.
So sometimes, thereâs a nice benefit to Greek culture, though itâs not for everyone.
@sushiritto but thatâs because they became good friends, not just because of the sorority, else presumably the entire sorority would have been there. My best college friends and I keep in touch and travel internationally to see each other every so often, despite there having been no Greek life in my country at all. Itâs not like you need a sorority or frat to make good friends.
@SJ2727 They met at/in the sorority. They became best friends for life. They spoke of their wonderful college sorority memories. They spoke about their once a year vacation trips around the globe together. They also spoke about how they helped each other, three in the same profession, in their careers over the years.
Greek culture is ONE way to meet people at college, but heck, you can meet your best friends standing in line at the local McDonalds as well.
Yeah, but we have friends groups. And they can be exclusive and down right mean to one another.
Exactly
I find this thread slightly contradictory, people go on about how fantastic Greek life is and all the benefits from being in it, with the implication that if youâre not you have a lesser experience, yet get defensive when people comment that itâs set up as an exclusionary system.
Like others, not growing up with this system to me it seems a way to instill exclusivity into what should be (I know arenât always) meritocratic environments. It reminds me a bit of the country clubs blackballing certain ethnic/religious groups back in the day. Whatever, a close relative loved her sorority, but Iâm glad D19 has no interest in Greek life.
Iâm very sorry for OP and the hurt OP and son are feeling and hope that son ends up with good friends and a great college environment, whether that is in or outside of a frat.
I think this would be extremely rare. In the few cases of women not getting any bids, it is because the PMN chose not to continue with the houses that invited her back. The formula is designed to get a bid for everyone. Number of PNM divided by the number of houses = quota, so there is a place for everyone. The houses that are the most popular are required to make cuts early while the less popular houses (by numbers from the prior years) have almost unlimited invitations to extend to the pool. It would be almost impossible for someone to get no invitations to a second or third party because several houses have unlimited invitations to extend. It is more often the case that the PNM is rejecting the house than that all the houses rejected the PNM.
But I guess we should get rid of all organizations that canât extend membership to everyone. No more Phi Beta Kappa, no more a Capella groups, no more club sports or intramural teams, no LLC dorms. If everyone canât join, then no one can join.
Mulling it over a bit more I think the main issue for me is it seems very personal. Donât get into Harvard - others had better grades etc. donât get on to a sports team or club - canât play as well, or sing, etc. donât get into a frat - itâs simply because we donât like you - youâre the kid we would have excluded on the playground at elementary school and at the lunch table at high school. Not cool enough for us.
On some campuses, the fraternities and (especially) sororities tend to be heavily (self-)segregated by race/ethnicity. Students interested in unsegregated interaction may want to avoid such campuses if the social scene is dominated by fraternities or sororities or if they themselves are interested in joining them.
I donât think fraternities and sororities can be compared to groups whose membership is based on academics (professional organizations or honors groups) or skill (sports, music). Youâre either in the major or have the stats to be eligible or you donât. Youâre either athletically or musically inclined or youâre not. The qualifications to get into any of these groups is fairly clear.
What are the requirements to be in a particular fraternity or sorority? âDonât be (what they think is) a jerkâ and âdonât scare away the (opposite sex) at partiesâ (as described up thread)? It sounds like students are accepted or rejected based on a couple of parties attended by a host of other hopeful pledges. I donât understand how the groups can choose whoâs a âfitâ based on such minimal interactions.
I think thatâs pretty much how I feel.
Greek orgs seem focused on pretty shallow stuff - looks/popularity/grooming/family money/dress and less on skills or talents of any kind - athletic, vocal, dance, academic, whatever. Which makes sense since they are social organizations so quite unlike jobs or musical groups or plays or sports teams. They value social qualities and love it or hate it many people value attractive people who have money and dress well and know how to engagingly chit chat through rush.
It also seems to me that most greek orgs favor and encourage pretty traditional gender roles for both men and women, and often in ways that I see as negative.
And it is a fact that participation in greek life is more dangerous for college women, in particular, in terms of higher risk of sexual abuse, alcohol abuse and other Bad Things That Can Happen in College. (https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/campus/pages/increased-risk.aspx or https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24442315_Sorority_Participation_and_Sexual_Assault_Risk among others)
That appears to be true despite the many anecdotes about dry parties and brother bystander training and strict rules and codes and such that are brought up here often.
But no one in my family has gone to a college with greek life so the the discussion is purely academic to me.
my very blonde friend was telling me about rush when she was in college, and was telling me about her very blonde daughter going through rush too. The house she was in was told to look for very pretty blonde girls; and to get a few super smart decent girls. Once they got a few high ACT girls, they went after the prettiest ones.
to me, this is hurtful, and i agree with what ohmomof2 and others have said above. Itâs such a personal rejection, not based on something that quantifiable likes sports, grades, skills, etc. Itâs based on YOU, your personality and looks, charm, parents money. To be rejected and excluded because of who you are is much more hurtful than because of job, music, sports skills, grades.
There are some sororities and frats that are outliers, and arenât as exclusionary. But according to my kiddo, none of the other greek houses want to get together with those houses who are known for over-weight girls, nerdy boys.
I just donât get it all. And when my 13 yo old, who thinks sheâs all that right now, gets to be college aged we will have LOTS of talks about this.
This is not a thread to debate the relative merits of Greek Life - it is about one kid who wanted to join a particular fraternity and, for whatever reason, was not invited. He wants to try again.
Itâs OK that not everyone is willing to live like this. It does not help OP nor her son to mention that here. You still around @IAMaconcerned ?
When the kid was going thru it the houses posted videos. We could tell by the videos which houses he would fit with and those he wouldnât. Anyone who wore a jacket and tie in the video was a no go. 
Itâs not really that hard.
If African-American women of otherwise impeccable credentials donât get selected for any sorority on campus, I would hardly call that âself-segregation.â
The Greeks are limited to the students the university accepts, which often lack diversity.
For OPâs son, there have been a of suggests on what he should do if he still wants to join. Fraternities have a much less structured recruitment, but it is still tough to break into a group. My nephew joined as a freshmen but quite a few of his friends didnât receive bids. Some joined other houses as freshman or as sophomores. My nephew lived in a house with 5 roommates soph-senior year, and they were in all different houses, some who had been dropped by nephewâs house. They dated girls from different houses, and the couples all got along too. A few had been friends since third or fourth grades, went to a boyâs high school together, did all the same activities, but for some reason some houses wanted one or two of the guys but not the third. Another house may have wanted only the third guy. Hard to know why.
It really had little to do with outward appearance.
@âCardinal Fangâ Often times minorities choose not to rush at all which is why the Greek system often appears segregated. There are also cultural fraternities and sororities that tends to take away from social chapters diversity.
However, some campuses, even though they may not be considered that diverse, have enough diversity to have fraternity and sorority systems that are mostly segregated by race/ethnicity. (If the campuses were not diverse enough, there would not be the chapters composed of people of the smaller races/ethnicities.)
âNot only that but many times itâs a numbers problem. Thereâs only room for so many new members.â
For sororities, this is true of individual houses, but not of the panhellenic system. Quotas are set to make room for all the potential new members who advance in the process.
âI think this would be extremely rare. In the few cases of women not getting any bids, it is because the PMN chose not to continue with the houses that invited her back.â
Depends what you consider extremely rare. Itâs true that the vast majority of students who rush but donât join voluntarily drop out because they donât like their remaining options. Itâs also true that at most schools, every year a handful of young women are cut by all chapters. So itâs a tiny percentage, but it happens consistently.
(I happen to be in Tuscaloosa, AL at the moment, so Iâve been immersed in sorority stuff.)
This understates the situation, though. Some women who would like the benefits of sisterhood, fellowship, networking and so forth rush and get the hard news that nobody wants them. But there are undoubtedly other, savvier women who would like the benefits of sisterhood etc., but who know full well that theyâd be rejected. Maybe theyâre 100% woman but donât perform femininity the way sororities expect, for example. Or theyâre socially unskilled.
Someone upthread said that minority women donât tend to rush, at some campuses. No doubt, but why is that? Maybe they donât want the sisterhood etc, maybe they find it more relaxing to be with people like them, but maybe they think theyâd be rejected, and maybe they think that with good reason. After all, it was only five years ago that Alabama sororities were revealed as segregated groups that wouldnât accept an African-American woman, no matter her qualifications. Her African-American identity would keep her out, period. Cultural memories last; this yearâs freshman could have an older sister or cousin who was at 'Bama when sororities barred blacks.