<p>I was going to make a slightly different observation--that this may be a "constitutional" issue--as in, these kids may just be the kind who are happy, period, and have the ability to adapt to disappointment and put it behind them, and find the best in any situation.<br>
(i.e., they were born with a happy constitution)</p>
<p>There definitely are different paths to having a good experience. And different kids will react different ways. My S was fortunate to get into the school he wanted, and really does seem to be much happier there than he was in HS, for the reason decribed above: he's found a like-minded peer group.</p>
<p>My D, on the other hand, was a very high achiever, who was turned down by one of the two selective schools she applied to, then turned the other one down in favor of state school (not ours) honors program because the school had the courses she thought she wanted. BIG mistake. The correlation to the concept of the very bright student finally feeling she fits in, D had the experience of feeling more out of place than she had in HS, in attending a less selective college. It was very painful to her to realize she had chosen a place where few people cared for learning for its own sake, but most couldn't pass up a chance to pass out at the next frat party. So,</p>
<p>School rejected: Tufts
School turned down: Umich Honors
School attended: Neighboring state U honors
Happiness quotient: 2
School transfered to: Wesleyan
Happiness quotient: 10</p>
<p>School: Brown
Outcome: deferred, then accepted
School turned down: Stanford
School attended: Brown
Happiness quotient: 10+!</p>
<p>Garland, I think you've put your finger on something that's been important to my D: the population density of like-minded peers, which has gone up substantially in her transition from hs to college. I wouldn't have thought to frame it that way but I think you've got a bingo! there.</p>
<p>I met someone for the first time yesterday whose son is very unhappy in his first year at a very good school and calls her everyday to complain. He blames it on the culture clash going from West to East Coast and from big urban high school to smallish elite university. I was thinking that in my own kid's case, the opposite is true. I think much of his high at this point is pride in making the choice that was farthest from his comfort zone -- far away, big city, coming from a small suburban private high school to the university with the reputation for sometimes being impersonal -- and finding his way there socially and academically. Maybe that will wear off. Yet, he's a kid who has always gone to small schools and always hated change, and I think he gained a tremendous amount of confidence just from making the bold leap. How do you fit that into a calculation of where a kid will be happiest? It just goes back to the idea that it has much to do with who you are as well as with "who" the institution is.</p>
<p>Measuring happiness is arbitrary....I agree with the observation that if high school social life is "awesome" then kids might find the early college days to be less than stellar because of what they think they are missing with their older friends from home. My child did fine in HS....very straight and narrow, hence not a blast, but ok.....lots of physical diversions...ski team, ski instructor , group gallactic bowling..etc... but, he also did two different summer programs...one after soph year and one after junior year.....what I learned was that it is much easier for a guy to have more choices socially when they are living in a dorm arrangement. It is so easy to go along, join a group, be included, make last minute choices, vs the whole HS whirl that involves access to a car, phone calls or IM arrangements etc....avoiding "trouble" ...things that easily become obstacles to a teen mind. </p>
<p>So, if the roomie situation is reasonable....and the dorm corridor or dining hall setup encourages flexible group fun, then most kids will be very happy with the freedom that comes from freshman year at college. If the conflicts over space, study habits, boyfriend/girlfriend stuff, drinking/drugs are a constant challenge, then you will see the happiness quotient dropping. My son and friends were like horses at the gate in a race....they could not wait to go...and 99.9% of them are running hard and having a blast. We are lucky and we know it. I post only on the oft chance that someone else will benefit from our experience....I know we learned a lot last year from CC when we found it....and became addicted viewers.</p>
<p>School: Northwestern
Outcome: Rejected ED</p>
<p>School: Fordham
Outcome: Deferred EA; rejected RD</p>
<p>School attending: Loyola Marymount
HQ: 5</p>
<p>So, not everything turns out great for everyone. And "aiming high" didn't help.</p>
<p>Mauimom, I know two people that are thinking about applying to Loyola Marymont. What are the negatives? Do you know anything about financial aid at the school?</p>
<p>Mauimom - I also know people looking at LMU - like Stark, I'd love to hear your son's impressions.</p>
<p>Don't know anything about financial aid.</p>
<p>My daughter's dissatisfaction has more to do with, as thedad said, "the population density of like-minded peers." She's an East Coast kid at a school that's 73% Californians. (No offense; I'm a native Californian), When visiting (and she visited twice) that didn't seem such a big thing but one of her first observations was "we had a dorm meeting tonight and the girls spent 20 minutes combing their hair & fixing their make-up." Most recently, when a professor asked students to name a time when Jews were scapegoatted, no one [but her] could think of the Holocaust.</p>
<p>Also, she went to an extremely challenging [private] high school -- so challenging that her 3.0 GPA made her look like a slacker when she was applying to colleges. Now she's finding that the teachers AREN'T as good as the fabulous ones she had in HS, and the students DEFINITELY aren't as smart and/or [particularly] politically aware.</p>
<p>Hmmm, doesn't sound good.
Hopefully, she will find like-minded people.</p>
<p>Mauimom,
That last post was a revealing commentary. We're native Californians too...D is a 1st yr in PA. Continuing to attend school with the "same" students---Californians---was one of reasons she applied out of state. In fact, most of her friends are scattered in the Northeast. It is a good thing to step out...</p>
<p>Wince, Mauimom. LMU is near by. Decent school but not one I'd suggest for someone intellectually "hungry" or "ambitious." The feel I get as you talk of your D is more like Swarthmore...another 3000 miles away.</p>
<p>Mauimom: I hope that things do work out for her. But, in the event she may not stay, counsel her to do really well there (should be quite possible for her) and get involved in things. If she should decide to transfer, her track record there will have a huge effect on her possibilities. And transfering isn't the end of the world (see my post above.)</p>
<br>
<p>Garland, I think you've put your finger on something that's been important to my D: the population density of like-minded peers, which has gone up substantially in her transition from hs to college. I wouldn't have thought to frame it that way but I think you've got a bingo! there.</p>
<br>
<p>I agree with this thought ... and in essence is my answer to the "are the IVYs worth it" strings ... first I would change the question to "are the top schools (private, public, LAC) worth it?" The number one reason I say yes is because it puts the student with an awesome (and hopefully somewhat similar) peer group ... which I believe pushes the learning both in the classroom and also in the dorm hallway at 2:00 in the morning when arguing Bush/Kerry.</p>
<p>mauimom--sounds like your D is more Berkeley material. . .</p>
<p>3togo--my D mentioned the same thing about her fellow students. Everyone seems like normal teenage freshmen watching the World Series, and then suddenly a discussion about 19th century German politics will break out and everyone seems to have something to add to the discussion. She LOVES it--so different from California public high school.</p>
<p>3toGo, that's been my feeling since shortly after I first scoping things out for my D's search. And has it given me second thoughts about my own education.</p>
<p>jamesah1 - this is off topic, but your post makes me really happy for some reason. My parents are completely disappointed that I'm going to Brown (just because it doesn't rank as Harvard/MIT/Stanford/schools Asian parents think are great), and they keep on telling me that I could've gotten into "better schools" and that I've dishonored them.</p>
<p>Mauimom - Thanks for the feedback. I'm sorry that your daughter isn't happy === hope things work out for her.</p>
<p>I can so identify with what your daughter is saying, TheDad. One of my twins just hates the fact that the vast majority of her classmates give so little attention to "learning." She cannot wait to go to college and hopefully find like-minded kids who love to learn, along with having fun</p>