<p>Northstarmom is correct. $16K total is a very good deal when it comes to students loans. You should also consider using outside scholarships for your local area to reduce or eliminate loans.</p>
<p>Not to picky or anything ;), but the poster who said that the OP could make $10K/yr. during the school year is overwhelmingly optimistic. 20 hrs/week@$10/hr. is a BIG time commitment when one is in college, esp. at a particularly challenging school. But more importantly than that, when one works, one must pay taxes (state, fed and local) and Social Security. Figure that $10K gross is really only about $8K in one's pocket.</p>
<p>I know a number of college kids home this summer who are trying to make money, and the only ones who are making $$ in some decent amount are in tough-to-get internships in engineering, on Wall Street, or in research. Most kids I know are waiting tables, lifeguarding, working as camp counselors, or selling Cutco knives.</p>
<p>I skipped a couple of pages so I hope that I'm not repeating anything here.</p>
<p>Your stats seem decent enough so you should hopefully be able land several nice fin. aid packages. If you are not set on a LAC, I suggest you look at public universities within your state, pick the best one or two and apply as a backup. I've seen many people with lower stats than yours and no fin. aid eligibility receive full scholarships for public universities. I'm not a fan of public universities, but I'd rather attend one for four years (three years if you work hard) than graduate with 10-20k+ in debt. They're really not as bad as this forum would have you believe. Most of college is what you make of it and there are opportunities even at the big, impersonal state university. I say this but I believe it is really important to be happy about where you go. If a state university isn't for you, then go to a LAC and take out loans as needed. </p>
<p>I don't know what CountingDown defines as decent money, but with a little effort a non-retail job that pays 15-20/hr is easily obtainable even for a student. Sure the work may be a little mind numbing but it is more than possible to earn 6-7k during the summer working only 40hr/wk which really isn't working that hard. Of course that is nothing compared to what a Google internship pays, but it is roughly comparable to an engineering internship [18-23/hr] in terms of pay.</p>
<p>After wading through this thread, I find myself in agreement with liyana179 in that the mother is probably in need of some help on top of the Asian family dynamics. And it doesn't sound like she is interested in getting help at this point in her life.</p>
<p>So I think the most important thing here is for the OP to focus first on her own mental health. It doesn't matter what happens with college if you are not mentally healthy enough to deal with it. I am optimistic as the OP does seem to have a fairly analytical approach to the situation. But it bears repeating that she needs to focus on herself first.</p>
<p>Beyond that, I think if the OP looks for merit money, I believe all schools require FAFSA and many require the CSS Profile to be filed. I'm not sure if for merit money purposes, the parent's half has to be filed or not for aid. This is one thing that must be researched before getting too far down the application path. If I were OP, I would not depend upon having her mother cooperate with FAFSA or Profile filing. Don't underestimate the degree to which your mother will try to control your college application process.</p>
<p>On a personal note to the OP, it will hurt to put distance between yourself and your mother. This is normal and necessary for your mental health and ultimately hers (when she decides that she needs to do something). It may sound perverse, but you may be doing your mother a favor by doing this on your own and putting the distance between the two of you. She needs to recognize that she isn't in 100% control any more and that one day she will need to adjust the relationship between the two of you if it is to be beneficial to both of you.</p>
<p>But be aware that she may never come around. Don't let that be your loss. Look at it this way. If your mother had developed early onset Alzheimer's (it does happen to people in their 40's) and started behaving in a bizarre way, you would be under no obligation to follow these types of directives that you get from her. And I don't think you would feel bad for doing so. Your mother, from your description of her behavior, would seem to have some degree of mental illness, which seems to make her behave irrationally. Treat it similarly and you will be OK.</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>
<p>All I can say is, a parent has really no obligation to pay for a child's education. It sucks, but there's nothing guarding against it. Despite being val of my high school/accepted into many good schools/working 40 hours a week, even during the school year, I still have to pay a hefty bill since my family made decent money (even though I never see any of it). I have never "rewarded" for doing well academically, and working so much makes me bitter when I see so many kids with the privilege of having their college fully paid for. They have no idea how much extra work I have to do, as I even have to pay for my own essentials. Never had a college fund, never had money put aside. </p>
<p>As a result, yes, I am very bitter. I hate having to sludge through endless work. So many kids have no idea how much work is being saved on their part with their loving support from their parents. When you have to pay for your own clothes, your education, your food, your travel, your everything, those numbers add up quickly. To sustain those numbers, you gotta work. And being in a tough school, this is even harder.</p>
<p>I can't tell you how to persuade your parents to help you. Sometimes they firmly believe their money is their money and not for you, and to an extent this is true -- but I wonder what the morality is of raising a child expecting it to support itself so early in life. Anyway, I don't know that either.</p>
<p>What I can say is, be thankful if you're being supported. You probably have no idea how absolutely lucky you are.</p>
<p>Even though OP has pretty decent stats, he may not even get in to any of the Ivies. The idea that he is "settling" by looking realistically at a good LAC or a state honors college that might offer him a full merit scholarship is just brand name snobism. He has a lot of good options to consider that will not require any contribution from his mother. He should be proud of his accomplishments and move forward happily. </p>
<p>With the price of college tuition, all college students should make cost a consideration in their college planning.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why wouldn't you babysit your 7-year-old brother for free? Isn't expecting to be paid for that like expecting to be paid for helping clean up your family's home?</p>
<p>Does your dad expect you to pay him for the meals that presumably his salary provides for you?
[/quote]
Well I dont really like little kids that much and I would rather do every other chore available than babysit.</p>
<p>I think this is a terrible situation to be in. I think it is patently unfair for any parent who has the financial ability to send their child to an expensive college to refuse to do so. </p>
<p>But ultimately, you can't make them do it. So you may end up in a position where you are going to have to find a way to pay for it on your own.</p>
<p>But this doesn't mean you'll end up at State U with a truck load of loans. A lot of very good schools give out full merit scholarships, or close to it. Try WUSTL, Rice (I think), and Tulane. And I'm sure the list is much longer.</p>
<p>Additionally, don't completely discount schools that only give out need based aid, because there are a lot of independent scholarships and loans that can be used to pay tuition at HYP etc. You have good stats. You can make it happen.</p>
<p>Well, I only read the first page of this thread so this might sound out of place. Apply to schools like Arizona State University, University of Arizona, and the University of Utah. I would be surprised if you didn't get a full scholarship. But I understand your frustration. You have the grades to go anywhere..</p>
<p>Hi. Wow, I can't believe what I'm reading. This girl has ostensibly worked her butt off to
accomplish all that she has in the way of academics, has a parent that can MORE than
pay for her education, and many of you are lamenting that it isn't a "parents' responsibility to do so"?</p>
<p>Bull. </p>
<p>My mother was (and still is) a lowlife drug addict. I am not even sure who my
father is. I had to work my butt off, with absolutely NO help from either parent,
to get into the Ivy I'm attending. It angers me that some people on here, whether
bitter because they had to work their way through college, or because they view that their kids' weren't good enough, think that a parent SHOULDN'T HAVE TO pay for a kid's college education. I'm sorry, but when you have children, you bear the responsibility for their upbringing. That also means you bear the responsibility of exposing them to all the opportunities available, and you SHOULD help out/ pay for college. If you decide to bring them into the world, you should make sure they can make their way in the world too. College is a gateway towards financial independence, and no parent should deprive their kids of such an opportunity.</p>
<p>That being said, here's my advice to the OP: Apply to ANY college you want. Worry about gaining admission first. Afterwards, even if your "mentally ill" (i.e., selfish) mom
offers to pay, disown her until she gets some serious counseling (because mentally ill, selfish, conceited people often change their minds in order to manipulate people, and you shouldn't subject yourself to her mentally abusive diatribes, etc.), talk to the financial aid office about the situation, and make an appeal. I had to do the same thing. All they need, in most cases, is a letter from your guidance counselor, and another letter from an involved adult in your life (i.e., church pastor, teacher, therapist, adult friend, etc.) explaining the situation.</p>
<p>If that doesn't work (i.e., they can't support your appeal-- highly unlikely that they won't, however), take a "gap year" from the college (i.e., request to take the first year off and matriculate the following fall), live on your own and get a job, and reapply for an appeal as an independent to the financial aid office. They will almost certainly reevaluate your financial situation, and grant you need-based aid. </p>
<p>Please, take my advice. Get into college, and then just stop communicating with your
abusive psycho mom. She needs help, and college is stressful enough as it is without having to depend on a mentally ill, manipulative person.</p>
<p>Wow, did you even just say mental illness is the same as selfishness? </p>
<p>Um, no.</p>
<p>Let me rephrase that-- her mom is being selfish, even if she is mentally ill. And, yes, if she is refusing to get help for her mental illness, she is being selfish.</p>
<p>I mean, if you raise a child, you should be prepared for provide for it financially. However, this does not necessarily mean a parent is expected to prepare for the chance that their child is Ivy-league-bound and will be attending an expensive institution. If you're able to go Ivy, odds are there are other great schools you can go to that will be cheaper via merit-based scholarships. Anyone who disagrees with this notion is just flat-out ignorant, simply put.</p>
<p>Again, it comes down to one simple principle. If parents pay for your education, just be grateful. I chose to opt out of the cheaper schools because I felt I would be bored there. I think I chose wisely despite the financial burden. "Education is the same anywhere" is simply not true.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Even though OP has pretty decent stats, he may not even get in to any of the Ivies. The idea that he is "settling" by looking realistically at a good LAC or a state honors college that might offer him a full merit scholarship is just brand name snobism.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, it's far from that. If OP doesn't even bother <em>applying</em> to schools he would otherwise apply to because parents won't pay, that's really unfortunate...to say the least. </p>
<p>And, you're right, there is nothing wrong with going to a state honors college or a good LAC. What are you trying to say? That applying to Ivy league schools is submitting to "brand-name snobism", how dare anyone even think of applying there? </p>
<p>Besides, that's not even the issue. The issue is "settling" by looking "realistically" at community colleges, taking gap years, and making academic decisions based from a purely financial perspective. </p>
<p>A lot of you have brought up various different examples of parents refusing to pay for someone's college education in this thread, and yes, some of them can hardly be argued with. But they are just different scenarios. Can anyone legitimately defend a parent calling her HS kid a "loser," treating that kid like a life failure, and then refusing to support him in higher education when she well has the resources to do so?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well I dont really like little kids that much and I would rather do every other chore available than babysit.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You don't like your little sibling that much?</p>
<p>Her mom is a massive *****. Steal the money out of her purse.</p>
<p>An appeal because mom refuses to pay? That won't work. No one would agree to pay for their kids, then. Snifit, your situation is very different. OP needs to apply to lower tier schools that will offer a free ride, and not worry about mom anymore. I think the dynamic here is very Asian family oriented. OP isn't into math or science, but into politics, literature, etc. That is foreign in the community, especially since mom is an immigrant. Been there and never could make mom approve of me, because I was into education, and a career, and not into getting married out of HS, and then raising a bunch of kids. This is purely cultural. No amount of reason will work. No amount of success will work, unless it matches mom's definition of success. Money as the carrot instead of guilt.</p>
<p>I think you should aim very high and apply to the best schools you think you can get into. Then, once you have an acceptance from an Ivy or Berkeley or top LAC or some other top school in hand, you can brag to all of her friends and the rest of the family about it. Tell them that you are so proud of all of the ways that your Mom helped you get there. Tell them that you are so excited to be able to achieve your dreams based on the sacrifices that your Mom made---and so glad that her sacrifices were not in vain. Do all of this in front of her, to her, and in ways that will get back to her. See if she changes her mind.</p>
<p>If not, still accept and take a gap year to work and make money for your tuition. Either way, you will have a great college acceptance in hand. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is purely cultural. No amount of reason will work. No amount of success will work, unless it matches mom's definition of success.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Don't sweep this generalization across all asian immigrant parents, either. There's validity to what you said up til this point, but if you carry that attitude, then nothing is giong to get resolved. Solutions and compromise occur when <em>both</em> sides are reasonable and open-minded.</p>
<p>my previous post: "Wesleyan claimed to have met my full financial need by giving me over 4,000 in loans for the first year alone!!!( This easily equates to 16,000+ after four years,"</p>
<p>"That was a good deal as the average college student takes out close to $20 k in loans to pay for their college education.</p>
<p>There are students who have posted on CC saying that colleges have offered them finanical aid packages that would have required them to take out $20-30k a YEAR in loans."</p>
<p>Just to clarify 4, 100 was the loan they expected me to take out from them.B/c they claimed that my parents could afford more than they could actually afford, the rest would have had to be paid for in loans.My point was that just b/c a college claims that you can afford to pay 20,000 or whatever amount they claim you can doesn't neccesarily mean you can afford to pay it..thats why its neccesary to do research. Another college that I applied to with the same exact financial information claimed I need 6,000 more in grants. It changes from college to college.</p>
<p>And yes I am aware that there are A LOT of students that take out 20,000 or more in loans just for the first year & I admire their dedication to their education but I personally do not feel comfortable starting a career with 40,000 worth of loans or more on my back. There were teachers at my high school making a mere 50,000 that had 30,000 loans to pay back. And most people do not graduate from four year undergrad college with a six-figure salary. Actually anyone making 60,000 out of 4-year college is pretty damn lucky. Back to my point having a great deal of loans was not something I was inetersted in dealing with. I believe the person who started this thread feels the same way. She could easily solve her issue with her mom refusing to pay by taking out a great deal of loans, but i got the impression that this was not something she was interested in.</p>
<p>I only read the first few pages so forgive me if I sound redundant. =P I also agree with Liyana's post.</p>
<p>As others have said, it certainly does seem like the OP's mom is showing signs of mental illness or at least something temporary going on underneath the surface. </p>
<p>While I don't think that the government should make it a law for parents to support their children financially through college, I think that parents should still morally ought to shell out some money unless they absolutely can't due to their salary. </p>
<p>Some parents who were not as fortunate during their younger years may want their own kids to experience this and gain from it, but whatever happened to "I want to give my children a better life." To completely deprive one's child of financial support when one is fully capable, as the OP's mother is, can be detrimental. </p>
<p>Here's an example that just popped into my head. It is commonly heard that you can have two of the three things in college: social life, good grades, and sleep. If a student has to add on work on top of 4 classes and extracurricular activites, the student can only have one. My roommate worked 13 hours a week on campus, had 4 classes, and had a time consuming school activity. She rarely got any sleep and didn't do well academically.</p>
<p>I realize that many college students don't receive financial support from their parents and have done well, but I believe when parents can support their child, they should to help the student do even better and carry out a more well balanced life.</p>
<p>Here's a random thing. In the beginning of the school year, my dad joked with me that he would put $25 into my bank account for each A I received; for anything lower, I would get nothing. This may sound odd, but maybe once your (OP) relationship with your mother improves, you can set up some sort of system. Depending how well you do in your academics, she would pay a certain percentage of your tuition as a reward. You can totally ignore this advice if you like; it's almost 3AM, so strange things are happening in my head. =PP</p>