Parent Refuses to Help with College?

Paying for College
101

<p>Reality is that at 18 you are an adult and parents can do what they wish (regardless of what others think they ought to do) as far as supporting that 18 year old. The entitlement feelings that youth have in this generation (and the last) are astounding to me and it gets worse every year. </p>

<p>An 18 year old isn't "entitled" to anything from their parents. If your parents are giving you a roof over your head and paying for your meals, be grateful. If they are footing the bill for your community college, be very grateful and if they are parting with their hard earned money to send your rear to a private college you should be on your knees kissing the ground they walk on - because that is a huge gift. </p>

<p>Can't get someone else to pay for your private school? Boo hoo. </p>

<p>Maturity doesn't come easy for some.</p>

102

<p>^ I don't agree with that.</p>

103

<p>
[quote]
Can't get someone else to pay for your private school? Boo hoo. </p>

<p>Maturity doesn't come easy for some.

[/quote]
To me the situation isn't that cut and dried. </p>

<p>I certainly agree kids should not feel entitled to a college education from their parents and that the student should have skin in the game paying for school. Parents of reasonable means can certainly choose to not help pay for the their kids school and they have no obligation to help pay.</p>

<p>That said the system set-up in the US expects parents to help pay for their children's college. If parents decide not to help pay they have put their kids in a terrible bind because schools will expect the parents to help pay. When I was in school it was possible for a kid to put themselves through an IVY or other elite school with a very managble debt. In today's world while parents are free to make that choice they are putting huge limitations on their child ... either on their choice of school ... or on the level of debt they will graduate with. </p>

<p>As I said earlier I'm all for kids having skin in the game for their college education however I have trouble putting myself in the shoes of parents of means who tell their kids "you're on your own for college".</p>

104

<p>Pearl, I love your post. There is a wide difference between views expressed in this thread (and elsewhere on CC at times), and what happens in my household. My kids realize that I do not have any true obligation to them beyond their 18th birthday. </p>

<p>Assisting them financially for college is something I CHOOSE to do, just like I chose to send them to private school for the last 10 and 12 years respectively. Their development and education has been important to my wife and I, and I have supported in in all ways including with my wallet.</p>

<p>My kids also are appreciative of all of the opportunities that we have given them (they actually SHOW that appreciation sometimes LOL), and have taken full advantage of them.</p>

<p>Some kids seem to feel extremely entitled. Mine dont thankfully. It will be really interesting to see how some of these kids act and react when the shoe passes down the generational foot. This generation of parents will likely be the LAST to have done better than the previous. Think hard about this you college students. Do you think you will have the means to provide for your offspring in the manner in which you are being provided for? I have my guess and it looks bleak. This is another reason for our support. Its a cruel, harsh world out there.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Can't get someone else to pay for your private school? Boo hoo.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My favorite CC line of the Month!!</p>

105

<p>Pearl, pjp1116, etc: As an 18-year-old going to an elite and expensive school next year, I resent the assumption that students should be given the total burden of their education, especially with well-to-do parents. As 3togo noted, that's not how our country is set up. Tuition is unbearably high (and total costs approach $50,000 a year) BECAUSE wealthier families are supposed to prop up less fortunate ones. The structure of financial aid depends on the parents to pitch in. Basically, parents who can afford to support their kids but choose not to consign them to paying the outrageous inflated prices of higher education of OTHER, supposedly less-fortunate, classmates. </p>

<p>To the OP: my advice, as someone who has immigrant Chinese parents who I thought would never approve of some of my interests (philosophy, political science, journalism) -- and who threatened not to pay for my name-brand Ivy education if I tried to get an English or similarly "worthless" degree -- is to acknowledge that ultimately it IS your mother's choice whether or not to support you, and understand that she might feel alienated by your pursuit of things that she probably can't understand.</p>

<p>I was able to win both of my parents over by excelling in the "soft" subjects I enjoyed, by never neglecting the "substantive" things they cared about (math, science), and by fibbing a little about my intentions. I'm going to study an interdisciplinary major in Econ and Government, which I know I'll enjoy, and will prepare me for finance/banking/consulting, international development, or international journalism -- so everyone's happy.</p>

<p>Most importantly, show your mother that she has reason to be proud of you, not just for the student you are, but for the son/daughter you are. Draw her out in conversations about investment. Apply for scholarships to try to lower the cost for her. And definitely don't forget to apply to merit AND expensive name-brand schools -- you can't lose if you have all your options covered.</p>

106

<p>The problem is that a parent with high salary makes financial aid suck for the student. Not only are you able to pay, but you aren't, and you're putting a huge bill with your kid. They make you pay more because they expect parents to help. Otherwise you'd have rich parents going "I can't afford to pay for school because I have to pay for fuel for my yacht!" It just doesn't work.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, neither of my parents went to college or cared about education. Didn't care about math, science, english, economics, anything. Impossible to win over people whose priorities in life are by no means intellectual.</p>

107

<p>
[quote]
Pearl, pjp1116, etc: As an 18-year-old going to an elite and expensive school next year, I resent the assumption that students should be given the total burden of their education, especially with well-to-do parents.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Congrats on being able to attend an elite and expensive school next year. But there are many interesting points that you bring up here that do not jive with my post, nor pearls. I never made the statement that students should fully fund the burden of their education, nor am I well-to-do (although I guess that is an extremely relative term).</p>

<p>
[quote]
As 3togo noted, that's not how our country is set up. Tuition is unbearably high (and total costs approach $50,000 a year) BECAUSE wealthier families are supposed to prop up less fortunate ones.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>HUH????? So this country is set up.... a capitalistic free-market economy.... for the wealthy to prop up the less fortunate??? Not in any of my economics books. </p>

<p>
[quote]
The structure of financial aid depends on the parents to pitch in. Basically, parents who can afford to support their kids but choose not to consign them to paying the outrageous inflated prices of higher education of OTHER, supposedly less-fortunate, classmates.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You had me with you at least for this first line. The federal finaid sytem takes into account the ability of families to support their offspring but you totally miss the point of my previous post....</p>

<p>If a parent chooses not to support their kids, it is a choice. That doesn't consign anyone to do anything relative to paying outrageous inflated prices for ANYTHING, what it does is set up the scenario for other CHOICES.</p>

<p>Think about a capitalistic free-market economy, and exactly how this ties into the "C" word above.</p>

<p>
[quote]
To the OP: my advice, as someone who has immigrant Chinese parents who I thought would never approve of some of my interests (philosophy, political science, journalism) -- and who threatened not to pay for my name-brand Ivy education if I tried to get an English or similarly "worthless" degree -- is to acknowledge that ultimately it IS your mother's choice whether or not to support you, and understand that she might feel alienated by your pursuit of things that she probably can't understand.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well you got me here, I am not Chinese, so I don't have any other comment there except to acknowledge that you at least agree with me relative to choice. So I guess you mustn't resent my earlier post after all.... I think you agree with me.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I was able to win both of my parents over

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My kids have NEVER had to "win me over". I helped create them, they are my responsibility, they are my reason for being.</p>

<p>
[quote]
and by fibbing a little about my intentions.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hmmmm.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Most importantly, show your mother that she has reason to be proud of you, not just for the student you are, but for the son/daughter you are. Draw her out in conversations about investment. Apply for scholarships to try to lower the cost for her. And definitely don't forget to apply to merit AND expensive name-brand schools --

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Are these the
[quote]
unbearably high (and total costs approach $50,000 a year)

[/quote]
and
[quote]
outrageous inflated prices

[/quote]
you mentioned earlier?</p>

<p>
[quote]
you can't lose if you have all your options covered.

[/quote]
Ding Ding Ding, I think we have found another point of agreement.</p>

<p>You are young, it will be interesting to see what kind of choices you make after the world wears off some your sharp edges. I have raised my kids to the best of my ability, and have given them every opportunity to make themselves into happy, productive humans. Its all I can do. But they don't feel entitled, they are gracious and deserving. Oh and one last thing, I'd be proud of them no matter WHAT they did (unless of course they turn into murderous wretches, or drug addicts...)</p>

108

<p>
[quote]

HUH????? So this country is set up.... a capitalistic free-market economy.... for the wealthy to prop up the less fortunate??? Not in any of my economics books.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Welfare? Taxes? Need-based aid? AFAIK, a good deal of the tuition that wealthier families who don't get need-based aid pay goes directly to need-based aid for those who aren't able to pay full price.</p>

<p>This isn't exactly a true free-market, laissez-faire paradise.</p>

109

<p>Look at who truly bears the tax burden in this country. </p>

<p>Not paradise, nor a perfect free market by any stretch. </p>

<p>But help me out here. You say wealthy families who DON'T get need based aid and pay tuition to colleges, and uni's.... help me grasp how these monies turn into need based aid for those that aren't able to pay full price?</p>

110

<p>
[quote]
You don't like your little sibling that much?

[/quote]
Sadly, yes</p>

111

<p>It's something I heard from a teacher who put several kids through college and didn't qualify for need-based aid based on income. I don't have first hand understanding, but I believe the teacher said that the excessive tuition they paid, in part, paid for the tuition that lower income families couldn't pay. Anyway, whether that's accurate or not, it's a small point.</p>

112

<p>Snift: </p>

<p>Just watch your language. Yes, I agree she's being selfish (and don't underestimate the difficulty of seeking help) But too often is mental illness dismissed as things as selfishness, laziness, or self pity, instead of a legitimate disease.</p>

<p>Mental illness is just as legitimate as diabetes, heart disease, or cancer. And because of stigma, it's often even more difficult to seek help. </p>

<p>You may have not meant to say what you said, but the more people carelessly talk like that the more stigma builds up and the more mentally ill people are delegitimized.</p>

113

<p>Anyway, whether that's accurate or not, it's a small point.</p>

<p>its a rather large error
schools are all subsidized
by taxpayers and by alumni who make donations/set up development funds etc
say the public universities costs to enroll one student is $18,000
in state tuition, is $8,000 OOS tuition might be $17,500.</p>

<p>if they give an instate student aid- on top of reduced instate costs- say for Perkins- that money does not come from tuition the OOS student is paying, but from teh colleges reserves/investments and funds set up for that purpose ( and govt)</p>

<p>Same with private schools, only they don't have the tax support- but they often do have much bigger endowments that may subsidize aid.
It doesn't come from other students tuition.</p>

<p>Sorry to say- that isn't the first time I have heard a teacher make an uneducated generalization.</p>

114

<br>


<br>

<p>Sounds like what really would interest her is the stock market. Learning about investments is fascinating (really!) and will be something that will stand you in good stead for the rest of your life. Plus it is obviously something that interests your mother a lot.</p>

<p>Seriously, if I knew at age 20 what I know now, I'd be RICH!</p>

<p>On the down side, some people play the market as a form of gambling, and gambling can be addicting.</p>

115

<p>Are you sure these aren't just empty threats? I mean, you're obviously a driven and pretty successful person, who is hoping to go to a good school, and these might be the kind of empty threats that are just her own way of scaring you into "shaping up" (in her eyes, at least). </p>

<p>I've read several posts on this thread that are suggesting that you talk to her about subjects she's interested in (as opposed to literature or other topics she thinks are boring/worthless) in order to "mend" the difference in perspective and get her to pay for college. In my opinion, this may be EXACTLY the kind of thought process she wants you to go through, and I guess, as a last resort, might not be THAT bad of an idea.</p>

<p>That said, she DOES make $160k/year, which means that she's undoubtedly a very successful person herself. I'm sure that someone in a position like hers would not want her child to be forced to take off a year to work for money, give up his/her dreams of going to a top private school, or resort to military service in order to get the money to pay for college. I highly doubt she will let it get to this level, as it will be a burden on her conscience (and everyone has a least a little bit of sympathy!) </p>

<p>I know that I'm making a lot of assumptions and jumping to conclusions here, but make sure she's not bluffing before you do anything drastic. Best of luck!</p>

116

<p>"If OP doesn't even bother <em>applying</em> to schools he would otherwise apply to because parents won't pay, that's really unfortunate...to say the least."</p>

<p>It may be unfortunate that OP might have to choose a college based on financial considerations, but it is also very naive of you to assume that this is not a common occurrence. You should be very grateful to your parents that you are not in such an unfortunate situation</p>

117

<p>
[quote]

It may be unfortunate that OP might have to choose a college based on financial considerations, but it is also very naive of you to assume that this is not a common occurrence

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Don't ignore the other circumstances. I am, in fact, very grateful that I'm not in that kind of situation. But I do <em>not</em> believe that the following is a common occurrence:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>This is so pointless, saddening, wrong, and unnecessary I don't know where to begin. Is this what you're saying is common? If so, then I am very naive.</p>

118

<p>Zoogie -- </p>

<p>Can you read English? When/where did I say any of that was common??????? Of course it is very uncommon. I think I remember saying something in an earlier post to the effect that OP should not rely on his mother for anything. A mom who behaves like this should not be given a second chance to change her mind and should not be given the privilege of providing the financial support for OP's college education. OP should not rely on her for anything.</p>

<p>I also never said that I think OP should sit it out at a community college. OP has earned his own college tuition already at a top-notch college or university. There are many excellent institutions which would be honored to have OP as a student, and they will offer him merit based scholarships to show for it. OP doesn't need his mother's money to attend a good college.</p>

<p>Ivy league colleges do not offer merit aid. They also accept about %10 to %20 of qualified applicants overall in the arts and sciences -- give or take. OP may be qualified for an Ivy college, but he may not be admitted, and he will not be awarded any merit aid. </p>

<p>I believe in being realistic, working with what you have, and playing to your strengths. OP has a lot going for him. He'll do great things. I'm sure he feels bad about his mother, but dwelling on that situation will only hold him back. He needs to move forward. He asked for advice. I gave my opinion.</p>

119

<p>
[quote]

It may be unfortunate that OP might have to choose a college based on financial considerations, but it is also very naive of you to assume that this is not a common occurrence

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sorry, I thought you said it there.</p>

<p>I wasn't arguing with your opinion; if you gave it in an earlier post, I probably missed it anyway. Just responding to your response. I guess you probably meant it would be naive to assume that having to choose a college based on financial considerations, and that's true. In that case, it's my fault for not phrasing it better - if the OP has to limit what schools he would apply to because of his specific situation, then it <em>is</em> really unfortunate, no? (as well as uncommon, as you agreed)</p>

<p>Anyway, just wanted to point out that I'm not attacking you or your posts, just explaining why I do not feel what I said was naive. Fair?</p>

<p>
[quote]

I believe in being realistic, working with what you have, and playing to your strengths. OP has a lot going for him. He'll do great things. I'm sure he feels bad about his mother, but dwelling on that situation will only hold him back. He needs to move forward. He asked for advice. I gave my opinion.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think viewing the situation as static and unchangeable can also be damaging. Moving forward is fine, working with what you have is necessary, but I hope he doesn't give up relationship with his mother. Now, maybe this <em>is</em> naive, given my lack of experience, but in my rosy, idealistic picture of the world, fixing this family relationship is a very possible thing...from a practical standpoint, yeah, he can't really /count/ on her of course.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Can you read English?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, English is my second language :-P But I think we agree on some points, and this needn't be an argument.</p>

120

<p>Go Pearl! Sure parents should help when they can and choose to but it is by no means a guarantee. I've footed the bill for nearly everything (and ALL educational pursuits) since I was 18. I couldn't afford a posh 4-year private university right away so I made sacrifices and worked hard to get to where I am today. Military service and a community college weren't what I would have envisioned as a little kid but it builds character to work for something and not whine for it. Grades aren't everything. </p>

<p>Everyone - keep in mind that there are two sides to every story and I'm sure the OP isn't a perfect angel and her mother isn't a complete monster.</p>