@calla1 - I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing your experience.
My mom should have revised her will to reflect the $$ she loaned one of her children. She didn’t & it was a mess. Long-simmering issues blew up and now one sib is estranged from the rest of us, probably forever.
Part of our estate planning is a sheet on passwords and how social media & email should be handled after our deaths.
I found out today that I am not on our phone/internet provider account. The only person to authorize changes or to get information on why our fiber optic internet was disconnected this morning, is my husband. As soon as he is back on Friday, he’ll be adding me. My sister had the same situation with a power acct before they moved. Better to find out now than when it is a real emergency.
@calla1, I am so sorry for your loss! I have never taken my late husband off our joint checking account, but it’s also joint with my daughter who is my sole heir. But I was able to put my daughter on a joint account that was mine and my mother’s without Mom there, however I couldn’t get on the joint account that was my mother’s and my brother’s (that is a long, terrible story) until he was in town to okay it. Two different banks. I am going to call my bank and ask about my husband, because I just never thought about it; maybe because managers at my bank know me. My mother’s bank wouldn’t even talk to her because she no longer had a photo ID; we had to go through all those steps to even get in to speak to an officer.
Has anyone been able to get a surviving spouse to talk to a grief counselor? My fil passed away in October, and my mil and I have a mutual friend who is about halfway in between our ages. I am a bit concerned that mil is putting on more of a brave face for family than she should be. Dh is the executor and trustee, so they mostly talk “business.” Even when he tries to call just to talk, she has received some piece of mail or has some question about the finances (which, thankfully, are ample for her). Mil took a weekend trip with our mutual friend this past weekend, and mutual friend has been feeding me some information about how she is doing. She says she talks about fil all the time - interjects something about him into every conversation - even if it isn’t really relevant. Mil may be more open about her grief with my dh’s sister - I am not sure. The impression I am getting from the mutual friend is that mil might benefit from talking to a grief counselor. Since she has not seemed particularly sad when talking to either dh or me, it would likely seem awkward for me to suggest that. She is coming here for a week at Thanksgiving. Maybe I will be better able to assess when I see her in person, but I hate to delay that long if she could benefit by talking to someone now.
I had a grief counselor after my parents died which was insisted upon by a family friend. But, I was very young when they died and the circumstances were very different, so I am not sure that drawing upon my own experience is appropriate. I’m also not sure how much I benefited by talking to this person, but I can’t say for sure since I don’t know what the situation would have been had I not talked to him.
What types of grief patterns and coping mechanisms have you seen among your surviving parent when they have lost their spouse?
@hoggirl it’s possible that she may be able to find comfort in a group. They are usually led by social workers, and you could find out what’s available where she lives from the county department on aging. Have you spoken with your sister-in-law?
@hoggirl I think it’s a great sign that your MIL is talking about her husband so openly. Are you seeing any signs of depression that you are concerned about (not showering, not eating, not getting out of the house)? Personally I think grief support groups and an amazing way to connect with people who are going through a similar loss but it’s not for everyone.
@momofsenior1 - I am not local to her, so I can’t observe. However, I don’t think any of those issues are going on at all. She has resumed all of her activities - she has MANY! Her schedule has always made me tired. She has several activities outside of the house each week - bridge, retired teacher organizations, docenting at a Presidential library, Bible study, etc.
@oldmom4896 - I may poke around on her church website to see if they offer anything. I do talk to my sister-in-law. She has been spending a lot of time with her. Mutual friend has wondered to me if sil is spending TOO much time with her. My experience with this age group is that they are resistant to anything that involves the word, “counseling.” Somehow, having to talk to someone about a struggle is seen as a weakness. At least this has been by observation.
It’s hard for me to assess because I am getting all information second hand. I, too, think it’s good she can talk about him, but according to the friend it was about every single thing that was going on. “Fil liked his bacon limp,” when she was served crispy bacon. “Fil would know the answer to that,” when discussing who the contractor had been on a local building. The friend said it was constant. His birthday was about a week ago. I think that coupled with the upcoming holidays is troubling her. As I wrote, she is coming here for Thanksgiving, and we already have a plan in place for Christmas as well. There also seem to be some mixed signals about traveling - she claims she wants to do more, but texted me yesterday that she was ready to be home after this little three night trip. I think part of it is that she isn’t sure with whom she would travel. She has many “acquaintance” friends, but most of her close friends have passed away. One sister is too old for travel, the other does not have the same level of financial means as mil. This mutual friend is younger and still works, so she cannot do significant travel with her at this point.
I am sure I will be able to better assess how she is doing when we see her in four weeks.
@Hoggirl Your own experience IS relevant. And in general, no one can spend too much time with a griever. In fact, the common complaint is that people start to pull away, so quickly. They expect the griever to be done with grief, back to not bothering others with their memories or issues. Even after decades of a marriage, the shared identity. Even after only a month since the loss. You’d all be surprised. The griever quickly comes to just say, when asked, “I’m ok.”
I’ve heard so many permutations of this. One of my vol roles at hospice is co-leading a spouse loss support group. I’ve done it for three years and some take ages to begin to heal. Of course. What other experiences do we have, to lean on, to know the way?
A lot of people don’t need support. It depends. Some like the freedom, building their own new lives, away from the caregiving and worries. When I run into someone who seems to be grappling, I just gently say, “You know, we have a support group at te hospice, a (safe) place to talk.” (This hospice actually has many groups. Some at hospice, some at local community centers, Independent living places, etc. If a loved one had any hospice care, there is one-one support avalable here.)
Yes, this time of year is the worst. The weather changing, two major family holidays coming up, with all the memories. I had my own loss, can speak to how support helps. But also how the attitudes around one matters. Its ok to stay in touch with her, tell her you know it’s hard. And listen.
Re support groups. Hospice has support groups and with TONS of encouragement, my brother and I were able to persuade our mom to attend after our dad’s death. Mom states she doesn’t need it (she does) but continues to attend because she feels she is helping others in the group. Whatever it takes is my feeling.
My mom wouldn’t go to one years ago when my dad died. She was involved in ten different church groups so had lots of companionship and support. She still was a little obsessive with talking about him for years after.
I did go to a support group. (The circumstances of his death were traumatic and tragic.) It helped me immeasurably. I loved the freedom to talk about my personal devastation to sympathetic listeners. I did find that friends assumed you were all better at the one month mark. Each person’s needs are so different.
Most nights, my mom asks how old she is when I put her to bed. Tonight when I told her 81, she said, “Oh goodness! That’s too old!” So then I told her, “Ok. You’re 65!” She said, “That’s better!” LOL!
I have been sleeping in my mother’s small assisted living apartment, on a love seat, while she gurgles and moans a few feet away. I don’t know how you all do it: I am getting no sleep! She takes Lunesta, then gets up in a few hours and wants to call the nurse before she is even back in bed. Then she gets up again. Then she moans.
I just gave her a 1/2 codeine. I don’t know what she would do if I wasn’t here, and am trying to figure out a way for the AL to give her PRN codeine, but it takes forever for a nurse to get here. One surgeon said the right sided pain is not connected to her large abdominal mass, and yet that seems counterintuitive to me.
Surgery consultation is next week. Hoping I get help for her without having to fend off ideas of major surgery. I should have left her in the hospital but they scared me. We were going to do hospice but now are going to try for a sigmoidoscopy with scope and no biopsy due to Coumadin. When she went off a few years ago, for a minor procedure, she had a stroke.
Her right hand is not usable due to arthritis, and her left leg is twice the size of the right due to swelling which probably originates in some injury to the knee.
What a mess! I have Palliative care coming along with visiting nurse and PT, but things seem to be on a downward slide so trying to figure out how much to do and not to do and when to call hospice.
She still makes it to the pub and said she would love to go to the hospice center because they serve drinks!
Again hats off to all who live with their parent(s). I got away for an art class today and it was heavenly.
In my experience, earlier is better with hospice. Sounds like your mom needs a higher level of care than her AL can give her right now. Does the hospice have an in-patient unit where your mom could go until her pain is better managed?
Thanks momofsenior1. Yes, right now my mom’s needs exceed what AL can provide and I think I am filling the gap myself. (Again still way way less than what you all are doing if your parents are home, but on the other hand I am sleeping on a love seat feet away from her and hauling my work back and forth and sometimes wish she WAS home).
I have involved the local hospice but only the Palliative Care division. They do have a beautiful in-patient place for pain management. Right now I am evaluating pain, need for meds, schedule of pain and potential schedule for meds- which isn’t working well because I am finding the pain happens more randomly than first thought. So codeine at 3 am last night. I guess she could push the emergency button and get someone to come - but only a nurse can give codeine and nurses tell me they are too busy to get here quickly.
I got her out of the hospital by saying we were taking her to a major teaching hospital for a consultation on an outpatient basis. Her CT says she has a large colonic mass, possibly perforating the colon wall but the perforation is walled off. Radiologist said most likely cancer but possibly complicated, inflamed diverticulitis.
She is on Coumadin so risk of bleeding is too high on that med, but if a doctor takes her off for a procedure, then she can have a stroke (and had one in 2012 after a colonoscopy and being off Coumadin for 5 days)
I am hospice oriented and have volunteered with them. My brothers not so much. I had a proxy invoked due to my mother’s dementia and am responsible for decisions but I am trying to honor my brothers.
I want to ask about non-invasive ways to see if this is indeed cancer. Even a Cologuard! My brothers want a sigmoidoscopy with scope, not biopsy as the safest way to go. We see a surgeon next week. I rejected the teaching hospital because the surgeon was too aggressive and didn’t “get it.” My mother herself doesn’t want anything done.
Once the issue is resolved for or against doing ANYTHING I can put her on hospice. I have offered my brothers an informational session done by a hospice doctor. Once she is on hospice things will improve, I hope.
I just read this in a Kaiser discussion event report, sent to my brothers:
Dr. Barry Kramer, director of the division of cancer prevention at the National Cancer Institute (NCI) in Rockville, Maryland, said both his parents impressed upon the family early and repeatedly that “neither wanted heroic measures, ever, when the time came,” and had paperwork to this effect. Consequently, years later, when it seemed his mother might have kidney cancer, she was brought home from the hospital as soon as she said she didn’t want to be there (after a transfusion but before a biopsy to confirm the cancer diagnosis) and spent her remaining four months enjoying family, visits from friends, and good health.
That said, it IS hard not knowing!!! Feels like flying a plane in the dark with no instrument panel. I am working on my attitude too. The hospice person asked: if we did get a diagnosis, would the outcome be any different? That is the main question. If diverticulitis would also require surgery, then I would not do the sigmoidoscopy. It makes no sense unless there is a treatment possibility.
@compmom, good for you for being there with her and trying to work with family and doctors to come up with a plan. This is all so hard, there is never a clear “right” solution, and when you, your brother, and various doctors all have different pieces of information it’s so much harder. Clearly you are acting out of love, whatever path you take.
When Dad was in the hospital with his UTI sepsis (from which he recovered fully, leaving only the heart/kidney/liver failure), the doctor suggested a family meeting for a palliative care consult. The first words out of her mouth were “Your father qualifies for hospice.” It was a relief to hear those words, as there were so many more options available for care.
One thing we did (very important!) before actually placing him on hospice, and which I forgot to mention before in my lessons learned:
Dad had a lot of ascides (fluid buildup) in his abdomen, making him uncomfortable and difficult for him to breathe. The doctors hadn’t made any suggestions about this, but when I was interviewing hospices by phone, one of them suggested asking for an Aspira procedure, where a port/drain is placed in the abdominal cavity, so that the family/caregivers can drain him at home. This was a simple surgery and needed to be done BEFORE he went on hospice, as hospice rules don’t allow that type of medical intervention.
The director specifically told me not to mention that I’d chosen a hospice, as some doctors will just discharge the patient on hospice and then it’s too late. She told me to say “We haven’t yet chosen a hospice but before we do, we want the Aspira drainage system installed.” The doctor approved this very simple procedure and he went home in much more comfort than he otherwise would have.
It’s a bit stunning to me that the docs didn’t suggest this procedure to us. I’m glad the hospice director did.