Parents: how do you feel about fraternities?

Parents Forum
81

<p>When you all start screaming at me, please at least try to be somewhat civil.</p>

<p>On Gordie:
Yes it is horrible that anyone would die at such a young age.
That being said. This was not part of any ritual of the fraternity. No fraternity ritual involves alcohol. This is the brothers of this specific chapter being morons. Clearly hindsight being what it is, what the pladge class should have done if they felt what had been given to them was too much alcohol, is dump out what they did not drink. Yes, the brothers gave it to them. Yes, the brothers told them to drink it all, but they did not stay there and forcefeed them alcohol before or after someone had passed out from consumption. Please do not assume that all fraternities are like this, haze, are complete morons; it's just not true.</p>

<p>Did anyone ever consider why kids who are 17/18 do all the dying from alcohol, and it's very rarely those who are not freshmen?</p>

<p>The kids who have come and gone as freshmen have done their hard-core "my parents aren't here" partying when the first get to college. They know their limits, the don't get as drunk as they can as fast as they can. That's not to say, of course, that freshmen are the only ones who drink, the problem is, that the freshman try to either keep up or out drink people who have been drinking heavily for 2-3 years, and simply do not have the tolerance to do this. My suggestion is (and this is where half of you grab your anxiety medication/shotguns) let your kids drink when they're in high school. Let them do it in a controlled environment. Let your kids have their friends over to your house and let them drink. There's no need for you to supply the booze (trust me, they know where to get it), but make sure they know they have a safe environment in which to consume alcohol. The will get drunk, they will trow up, and when the get to college, they will know their limits and wont drink themselves to death. Plus, my ass wont have to stay up all night watching them puke on my couch/trashcan and missing class they next day.</p>

<p>As for the greek/GDI descision, if nothing else, think of it this way:
Your kids are going to drink when they get to college. Even if they tell you they don't, they are. Which is better for them, drinking with their brothers (active or pledge) when there's a designated driver and a couch to sleep on or with a group of friends trying to suck down more booze than one another and either driving back some where to sleep and/or facing harsh penalties from University Housing.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Read the book Pledged, even if a third of what she writes about is accurate, its eye opening</p>

<p>I kind of like the idea of frat and sorities that don't have houses, that are truly into service work, bonding, etc

[/quote]

That book is a crock of *****. It was writen to sell books and make money. DO NOT TAKE IT TO HEART!</p>

<p>My fraternity has a house, it is a dry house (as are 209 of 215 Theta Chi houses, 6 have waivers), there is no alcohol allowed in the house. If we have alcohol in the house we can lose our charter, as we will have violated our national by-laws.</p>

<p>This past year, MY chapter won the Volunteer Hampton Roads "Volunteer Organization of the Year" award. Yes, we drink, but this is far from all we do.</p>

<p>
[quote]
UCLAri, you display an astounding ignorance of the issue by calling this an ISOLATED incident. Do yourself a favor and research the issue before posting such a naive comment.

[/quote]

What is the ratio of GDI's who die in drunk driving accidents every year that could have been prevented by a sober brother/sister program compared to those who die with one?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I can see how someone who is a rational intelligent person could get swept up in a frat initiation and not realize what the consequences could be. Please, everyone read Gordy's site and you will see what a fabulous person he was and if someone like that can get sucked in then anyone can.

[/quote]

All Fraternities and Soroities have Risk Managment Standards. At all parties we have at least 3 people on a "Risk Team" who remain sober. They are also present at all forms of ritual in case anyone decides to drink before hand.</p>

<p>
[quote]
My biggest complaint with frats at UCLA was that none of them served even remotely good beer during Rush!</p>

<p>What good is fraternizing if everyone is drinking Dutch pee or American deer spit?

[/quote]

This is the fairest thing anyone's said about fraternities yet.</p>

<p>
[quote]
One way to stop the hazing is to require frats to have several older alums present during all initiations.

[/quote]

"Older Alums" who have jobs? A lot of the rituals happen late at night so as to not interfere with other responsibilities (class, jobs, etc.), and yes, the soon-to-be brothers are required to go to class during initiation week, if they don't they are taken before the standards board.</p>

<p>
[quote]
jlauer, I went through rush week, along with everyone else (granted, this was 25 years ago), so had no better or worse opportunity to look for people with similar interests. It just wasn't really possible with all those silly little parties.</p>

<p>Really, those are a big crush of polite small talk, mingling with women who you might like or not, (but couldn't tell under those contrived settings), and sizing up...on both sides.</p>

<p>I think I made a bad sororoity choice, in retrospect, but truthfully, in retrospect, there isn't a choice that would have suited me better. I think I was just better as an independent, despite how much of campus life focused on Greek life. I liked it better not being affiliated, and liked the non-Greek people better too.

[/quote]

For what's it's worth, this does not occur in fraternities, as there is no formal recruitment.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm still have the issue with a formal from a WUSTL's fraternity. They do their parties in another state, and the "brothers" don't have the choice but rooming alone with their dates. Most parents don't care, but having a teenager daughter, I do care.

[/quote]

The reason a lot of fraternities/sororities have their annual formal far away from campus is to force people to stay in rooms and prevent drunk people from driving back to campus. Also, it costs half as much to split a room with someone else, and put 4 people in a room. With another set of people in the room, certain "activities" are greatly reduced.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Cornell University freshman (name of student) was found dead Friday morning

[/quote]

Again, tragic, but a freshman.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm on track to either double or triple major plus get an MEng in 8 semesters,

[/quote]

1) This is not possible
2) He wanted to do this and never wnated to use Chemistry again?
There was something wrong with this kid other than drinking.</p>

<p>Yes, stupid ***** does happen. However, stupid ***** would be happening with or without fraternities, and with fraternities there is always someone to back you up and the knowlege that you are representing something much larger than yourself.</p>

<p>Also, it's not a "frat," it's a fraternity. You wouldn't call your country a ****, would you?</p>

<p>And finally,</p>

<p>Like I said previously, please try to remain somewhat civil when screaming responses at me. </p>

<p>636</p>

<p>(<a href="http://www.thetachi.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thetachi.org&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>"July 4, 1776 all men were declared to have been created equal. April 10, 1856 that all changed."</p>

82

<p>I count 5 deleted expletives. And you want people to be civil in their response to you? Maybe not so much.</p>

83

<p>When I was a freshman in college, it seemed to me that I was surrounded by crude, obnoxious, vomiting drunks. But when sophomore year rolled around, these people magically vanished, leading to a great improvement in the quality of life for the rest of us.</p>

<p>Where did they go? To the Greek houses, of course. The fraternities and sororities acted like a giant broom, whisking away all of the most undesirable elements and leaving behind plenty of peace, quiet, and civilization (along with a lot less barf in the bathrooms).</p>

<p>What could be nicer?</p>

<p>Greek houses are a wonderful invention. </p>

<p>You can scream at me, too. I don't mind.</p>

84

<p>Hmm...I have strong prejudices against frat boys, but clearly that is unfair because many of them are good kids. But in my experience, I found them to be somewhat frivolous and lacking in substance with their emphasis on shallow social events over personal development (again, a generalization, but too often true), having a sense of exclusiveness based on some phony criteria (I remember one stuffed shirt who never earned a thing on his own with the mental toughness of a brine shrimp telling me I couldn't get in his frat because I didn't smoke pot), and from my perspective the most damning, lacking in mental toughness and focus. Clearly I wasn't cut out for them or they for me - and their general penchant for being wards of Mommy and Daddy until well after college (I was on my own completely since high school) made me lose respect for them. But to each his own. By the way, I was in an honors program (one of about 20 selected at Duke), so I sure as heck never went to class with them my last two years. If you get the picture I am not enthralled with the frat situation - well, that would be accurate.</p>

85

<p>A good friend of my son's parents allowed him to drink in high school under the theory that there wouldn't be anything for him to rebel against or "go crazy" with in college. The boy has gone through some challenging times with sports and a girlfriend, and my son tells me that for the last year (his senior year in h.s.) he has been drinking both frequently and excessively. I know, for example, that he was drunk the night before playing doubles tennis in the state tournament, to the dismay of his partner. </p>

<p>The reason we parents are so concerned about alcohol, sex, drugs, etc. is that they are so powerful and can be so very destructive.</p>

86

<p>SuNa,</p>

<p>I realize that yes, these are powerful substances, but from what I can tell about your son' friend's situation, it is not the same as I described. The point I was trying to make revolved around allowing them to drink in a controled (by you) environment. If I forgot to include the words "in moderation," I appologize, but I've been at work for 15 hours now. Clearly if you see your child abusing alcohol you need to step in and bring that up. The goal of the situation I proposed was to teach kids to drink responsibly. Also, this same friend most likely would have developed the same problem with alcohol at college if he had not began in high school, only it may have become much worse. He may have become one of the kids who drinks themselves to death, greek or not.</p>

<hr>

<p>mam1959,</p>

<p>Again, this is merely one idiot being an idiot. I'm sure many generalizations and stereotypes have been attached to you, having in been a program such as that (especially at a school like Duke), but does that make them true? The same holds true for greeks, be they IFC, NPC, NPHC or some local Greek Letter Organization. Yes, "frat boys" do exist, I know some, I don't like them, they live off their parents, have never worked a day in their life and treat you like crap because of it. There are stuck up people who are not greek as well, this all goes back to stereotyping.</p>

<hr>

<p>
[quote]
I count 5 deleted expletives. And you want people to be civil in their response to you? Maybe not so much.

[/quote]

Nice job with the counting. I'll let my diffies professor know that I got that question on the final right because four and five are really the same thing.</p>

<p>636</p>

87

<p>I don't know. . . I think we parents have more moral authority than we think. Kids generally "one-up" their parents, that is, they go over whatever line their parents set. So if as a 2006 parent of a teen, taking into account that you probably did some drinking in high school and you don't want to be a hypocrite, you set the line at "I will allow my kid to drink responsibly and reasonably under my supervision, even though it's illegal" your kid is going to "one up" that.</p>

88

<p>I can see that, but there's not a whole lot to do above that. I hate to say it, but if the kids going to smoke weed, he's going to smoke weed. At least if most of the social time is in the same place as you, there might be less temptaion to do it. It's essentially making a deal. "I'll let you and your friends drink here on the weekends as long as there's no weed." The reason most kids get into things beyond drinking is mostly availiblity and ability to hide being drunk, stoned, whatever. If you take away these factors, probability of experimentation goes down. </p>

<p>As for being legal or not, drinking in college isn't legal either. It stops almost noone from drinking. If someone could tell you that breaking this unenforcable law would someday save your or someone else's son from dying at the ripe old age of 18, would you even hesitate?</p>

<p>I do see what you're saying though, and obviously no one decide how to raise your kid but you, my only point is, I see a lot more of what your kids are doing in college than you do and it scares me. It damn well better scare you. Unfortunatly, like you said, they're going to bend if not break any rules you give them. I just think it's better if they understand the consequences by having experienced things.</p>

<p>I ramble, but I think that kinda makes sense.</p>

<p>636</p>

89

<p>From what I read in alot of these posts are that alot of parents are worried about what their kids are going to do when loose in college. My answer they WILL pretty much do exactly what you did. </p>

<p>Now the question becomes what kind of relationship you have with your children? Did you lie about alcohol and drug use? I've found alot of those parents who excessively worry about what their kids are going to do are also those who've never really leveled with them about their own lives at that age. </p>

<p>"No son, I never drank, smoked anything or had premarrital sex." </p>

<p>Be honest with your kids, it works very well in avoiding many tragic things that could happen. Things can and do happen, our job as parents is to prepare our children in how to deal with it and make reasonable choices based on their own conclusions, not ours. </p>

<p>My son joined a frat and I had all the worries some here had. What changed those worries, going down and seeing for myself. What actually went on? I would describe it as "dumb", but not "stupid" activities. They do some dumb things that sometimes finish their nights talking with the toilet, rather than a pretty girl, but not stupid things where hurting someone is the result. Like Super troopers their shenanigans were cheeky and fun. :) </p>

<p>They also have a GPA higher than the general student body(if below average student pop gpa, no rush that semester) , several (including mine) made the dean's list and have worked with special olypmics, the local public elementaries and Habitat for Humanities. It is possible to have fun and do good for other people. It doesn't have to be one or the other. </p>

<p>At some point you have to trust your children, they are what you made them to be.</p>

90

<p>Yes my cell phone was taken away from me when I was initiated last year</p>

91

<p>You’re a terrible parent you should’ve supported your son’s decision rather than whining about it just because you yourself were a GDI… if fraternities are so horrible how come Greeks have higher GPAs and raise far more money for charities than GDIs??? How come so many successful CEOs, Congressmen and notable successful people are Greek?</p>

92

<p>Another mistake you all seem to be making is that all you GDI parents can’t seem to grasp the fact that all fraternities are NOT the same. If you really think that joining PIKE , Kappa Sigma, Pi Kapp or SigEp would all be the same it just goes to show that you all know nothing about Greek Life.</p>

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<p>I am a parent whose son is going into his sophmpre year at Penn State. We have had many discussions about him joining a fraternity. He really wants to -and we really don’t want him to. I am sure that there are plenty of fraternities that accomplish great things and where the members arent drunk every night and who have high GPAs but the reverse is also true. I also feel that you have to know your child and if you think that for them being in a fraternity where excessive drinking is the norm and that they will partake in that- then you have a right to be concerned. Last Sept. just a few weeks after school started a young man at Penn State fell to his death after visiting several fraternities and parties. Yes- alcohol was to blame. He was 19 same age as my son and it scared us to death. Was it the fault of the fraternities?-partly- he was underage and although peolple said they tried to stop him from leaving- no one went with him to make sure he got home ok. Im not naive -college kids drink but Im sorry to all of you who disagree most frats(-notice i didn’t say all) do encourage excessive drinking-but ultimately it is each individuals responsibilty to make the right choices. This includes who your friends are-who might watch out for you or stop you from doing something life threatening. Stay safe out there and im sure the debate in our house will resume this fall but we still stand firm that we don’t want our son to join a fraternity because we feel that in his case it will only encourage him to partake in dangerous behavior.</p>

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<p>Yes, college kids drink. And yes, college kids think they, and others, are invincible. They probably didn’t follow this kid home because it truly didn’t occur to them that anything tragic could happen. They’d seen people drunk before and they’d seen people be fine a day later. Please don’t judge them too harshly.</p>

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<p>LTMRM: While I don’t condone the outrageous behavior that sometimes exists at certain fraternities, when I was looking for numbers to back up college deaths related to alcohol, the majority of deaths in the US related to alcohol were not from fraternities.</p>

<p>[Recent</a> Alcohol-Related Student Deaths on College Campuses](<a href=“http://compelledtoact.com/Tragic_listing/Main_listing_victims.htm]Recent”>http://compelledtoact.com/Tragic_listing/Main_listing_victims.htm)</p>

<p>If your child is going to take it too far, they will, regardless of the setting. College age adults need to know the signs of alcohol abuse, watch over each other at parties and after, and not binge drink. Yes, underage drinking is a problem, but it also happens in the dorm rooms and off-campus houses. Maybe our job as parents is to pressure the administration at campuses to do a better job at educating our kids on the signs of alcohol poisoning, the effects of binge drinking and how to drink responsibly.</p>

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<p>footballmom104- and MizzBee believe me I am not judging anyone- including the fraternities - i just think as parents we have to reinforce to our kids not only to look out for themselves but also to look out for their friends. I wonder if at that fraternity where that young man who died from my sons school where he was last seen alive - were there any Sober brothers that I have been hearing about . Anyone who was sober would have seen how incapable this young man was of making it back to his dorm room. Many young men were visiting the fraternities that week since it was recruitment time- and my son was one of them. Where were the responsible older frat brothers who were probably meeting all these young freshman for the first time? I do know that college age students are legally adults-however since the law doesnt allow them to drink until 21-in some ways they are still children. I agree education on the dangers of alcohol abuse is a good idea-and actually should be done on the high school level and junior high level.</p>

97

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</p>

<p>This has nothing to do with a fraternity but a young man in our community went to a party - passed out, woke up later, drank more. His ‘best friend’ drove him home and dumped him in his front yard, where he subsequently died of alcohol poisoning 15 feet from his front door. If his friend had had the gumption to knock on the door to let the parents know that son was passed out drunk, he wouldn’t have died. We heard this kid’s mother speak at a seminar hosted in our community for teens and their parents about the hazards of drinking (and drugs). We have emphasized to son that he needs to watch out for his friends who exhibit signs of alcohol poisoning. People tend to think the only danger in drinking is while driving. Not true - many, many kids die from alcohol-related incidents where cars were not involved. We might not be able to stop the underage binge drinking but we can make sure they are educated about what to do when someone gets into trouble.</p>