Parents: how do you feel about fraternities?

Parents Forum
61

<p>kluge,</p>

<p>Way to put words in my mouth. I'm merely saying that the weight of responsibility is on the person putting the alcohol in their body. Yes, the fraternity in question should be blamed to an extent as well. However, I see a couple running themes with most of what's being said:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It's not MY child's fault if something goes wrong. It's everyone else's fault. How dare they give MY little baby alcohol. He's only a legal adult, after all!</p></li>
<li><p>The fraternity in this article was run by jerks. Therefore, all fraternities are run by jerks!</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I find both to be problematic. Of course, I'm exaggerating to get my point across, but the point still remains: deaths in fraternities are still fairly isolated incidents, and joining a fraternity party/association is a personal choice.</p>

62

<p>
[quote]
Beyond hazing and drinking, recently I found another problem of being in some frats: the overnight formal parties. In WUSTL one of the frats has overnight formals far away from campus (in other state) where the brothers have to room with their dates, they don’t have a choice to spend the night in separate room even if the newly frat has a girlfriend at home.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This describes one of the more horrifying episodes in the I am Charlotte Simmons book.</p>

63

<p>kluge - i already stated that they should be responsible for giving a minor alcohol. and i also stated that i think they should look after the people, however, if nobody goes to the frat's in the first place.. or they choose not to partake in the activities... then these hazing deaths wouldn't of happened... i just disagreed with the statement that "the frat was DIRECTLY responsible"...</p>

<p>using your example, i think you would be responsible for giving the guy the gun. however you aren't responsible for him being drunk in the first place. if he wasn't drunk maybe he wouldn't of shot someone. </p>

<p>it goes both ways.</p>

64

<p>Very sad, and as a parent, very frightening, from today's UVA Cavalier Daily:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Cornell student dies while visiting U.Va. over weekend
Cornell University freshman found dead in Cauthen residence hall Friday morning; University Police say cause of death has yet to be determined</p>

<p>Kristin Hawkins, Cavalier Daily Associate Editor </p>

<p>Cornell University freshman (name of student) was found dead Friday morning in the Cauthen residence hall where he had been the guest of a first-year University student. </p>

<p>University Police sergeant Melissa Fielding said the cause of death has yet to be determined. </p>

<p>"Any death is investigated as suspicious," Fielding said, noting that in this case, there were "no outward signs of anything criminal." </p>

<p>(name of student)'s body was transported from the University Medical Center to the medical examiner's office in Richmond for an autopsy, University Health Systems spokesman David Foreman said. </p>

<p>(name of student) was a computer science and electrical engineering major at Cornell, according to his mother, (mother's name). (name of student)'s extracurricular activities included running marathons and participating in Cornell's autonomous underwater vehicle team, his mother added. </p>

<p>(name of student) spent part of the night before he died at the Sigma Phi Epsilon house. </p>

<p>SPE pledge Andrew Van Der Vaart said the fraternity recently met to discuss the events of Thursday night. </p>

<p>During their meeting, SPE brothers said (name of student) visited their fraternity on Thursday evening and consumed alcohol there. However, (name of student) drank alcohol he brought in a flask rather than consuming alcohol provided by SPE, Van Der Vaart said. </p>

<p>SPE president Bryant Thomas said the fraternity's largest concern is for the victim and his family. </p>

<p>"My fraternity is cooperating fully with the investigation," Thomas added. </p>

<p>SPE brothers determined that (name of student) was escorted back to Cauthen by his friend, who is a pledge at SPE, and a SPE brother, according to Van Der Vaart. </p>

<p>"They said they put him in bed and he was still responding," Van Der Vaart said. "They rolled him on his side [and his friend] stayed in the room for 15 minutes" before returning to his own room. </p>

<p>Van Der Vaart added that SPE's regional director visited the fraternity recently and told fraternity brothers that the chapter did not need to be concerned about losing its charter. </p>

<p>"He said it was evident to him that it hadn't been us who were serving him" alcohol, Van Der Vaart said. "We did everything we could." </p>

<p>Thomas said any potential social probation measures will be determined within the University community by the Inter-Fraternity Council. </p>

<p>The fraternity will remain "dry" until a decision is made, Van Der Vaart added. </p>

<p>University spokesperson Carol Wood said the University is working with Cornell administrators following the death. </p>

<p>Wood added that University Police contacted the police in (name of student)'s Missouri hometown so local officials could personally notify (name of student) 's family of the death.

[/quote]
</p>

65

<p>UCLAri, post 15:
[quote]
I don't see why this is anyone else's fault but his own. Unless they put a gun to his head, he chose to down those drinks. Self-responsibility, folks. It sucks.

[/quote]
My only point is: Don't avoid taking (or assessing) responsibility to one involved party just because it's easier to put it on someone else and then wash your hands. We're all responsible for our actions - even when someone else is "more" or "directly" responsible for the consequences. This was a favored technique of the tobacco industry for years. A lot of people are dead because of the success of that logic.</p>

<p>And with that, UCLAri and fendergirl, I'll get off your case. I know what you meant. Just wanted to remind you to look behind the assumptions in what you say. (By the way - my son is in a fraternity.)</p>

66

<p>this ones not about a frat however here's the story from PSU this weekend</p>

<p><a href="http://live.psu.edu/story/16779%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://live.psu.edu/story/16779&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

67

<p>kluge,</p>

<p>Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, people choose to smoke. Should cigarette manufacturers be held responsible for smokers' deaths? I find it as insane as suing a car manufacturer because someone drives over the speed limit, crashes into a wall, and dies. It happens though.</p>

68

<p>folks, I am just still shaken by the news that a marathon running bright young man died at our state's flagship university this week while hanging out with frat pledges and drinking past the toxic levels. what a tragedy. Fendergirl's link to the number of alcohol poisonings at Penn State also saddens, although it is the same story many places over. my heart is really aching for that mother and for those foolish friends who "rolled over" their "sleeping" guest. thank heavens my godson's sober roommate called 911 three years ago when he wasn't "sure" if my godson was safe or unconscious. his life was saved in the ER. This family lost their son forever. please everyone, remind your young adults to call for an ambulance when alcohol poisoning is a possibility.<br>
My S just received the Cav Daily article link and was very upset..and it is being read by others at his college.</p>

69

<p>This is why the programs that are pursuing awareness of the symptoms of alcohol poisoning are so important. This is borrowed from the same Gordie Foundation website: </p>

<p>Symptoms of Alcohol Poisoning </p>

<p>If you have any of the following symptoms, you are experiencing an overdose reaction:
• Vomiting
• Passed out
• Difficult to awaken
• Slow, shallow breathing </p>

<p>What You Should Do </p>

<p>Don't let a person who has been drinking heavily "sleep it off." If they persist in falling asleep, wake them up. If they don't respond, it's time to call the police emergency number (911) and tell them you need an ambulance for a possible alcohol overdose. Do not assume your friend will simply sleep it off. When in doubt, call for help. Don't take a chance with your friend's life. If you know or suspect that other drugs may have been taken, be sure to notify at least one or more ambulance personnel. Alcohol in combination with other drugs accounts for about 30% of all drug overdose deaths. </p>

<p>More programs are in development:
<a href="http://www.thegordiefoundation.org/home/savealife_programs.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thegordiefoundation.org/home/savealife_programs.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

70

<p>Smoking is addictive and harder to kick than heroin</p>

<p>yes it is the smokers fault, but it is also the manafacutures fault for making a product that is deadly</p>

71

<p>Alcohol is addictive and deadly too, is that also the fault of manufacturers?</p>

72

<p>xiggi, love your SAT prep tips..but please never tire of relisting the <a href="http://www.gordiefoundation.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.gordiefoundation.org&lt;/a> story. Some of gordie's classmates are at my S's current university...it is an excellent website and alcohol poisoning risks are repeatedly misunderstood, minimized and ignored even by high test score sensible goal oriented young adults with not completed brain development (check out PET Scans). Combined with peer pressure, hormones and decreased awareness of reality after putting back a couple of beers, this story of beautiful lives cut short repeats, taking one young life after another and leaving the bystanders/enablers with horrendous burdens of guilt. And can we also address how many students die from falls from parties and balconies and windows each year when drinking in groups. Another line of risks there.</p>

73

<p>"Smoking is addictive and harder to kick than heroin"</p>

<p>"Alcohol is addictive and deadly too, is that also the fault of manufacturers?"</p>

<p>I like the parallel in the past few posts. Consumers had to fight for years before the tobacco manufacturers accepted to put warnings on the packs on cigarettes. It also took years before advertising could be curbed. As a result, if you were to ask a group of students at an elementary or middle school if smoking was good for humans, you would hear a very loud NOOOOOOO. Young adults still smoke but the message has been successful. </p>

<p>On the other hand, the same has not happened to the beverage industry. One could easily say that drinking is in fact glamourized and that a subtle message of "no fun without drinking" is bombarding us. </p>

<p>Since it is doubtful that the industry will clean up its act, the best solution to help young adults making the right decisions is via educating them of the POTENTIAL risks of death by poisoning. Destructive behavior will continue and the issue is NOT about doling out percentages of responsibilities. </p>

<p>Families and friends of students who lost their life are more interested in avoiding FUTURE losses.</p>

<p>PS Thank you Faline for reminding me!</p>

74

<p>(name of deceased Cornell student) posted to the Parents Cafe in January:</p>

<p>"Take your talk of "haze" elsewhere - I enjoy drinking, but I certainly don't go through life in a haze. I'm on track to either double or triple major plus get an MEng in 8 semesters, I run marathons for fun, and generally live life to its fullest. I do not drink myself into a stupor and waste days, months and years. Drinking is a recreational activity that I very much enjoy, but I keep it in its place - drinking only with friends and only when it won't interfere with my other goals (I'm not Bode Miller, I don't drink before marathons or prelims). Alcohol hasn't limited me in any way, nor has it ever prevented me from achieving success. I'm sorry that alcohol has caused you such problems, binx, but I'm not telling you to drink. I'm just counteracting the anti-alcohol posts that everyone else seems to have and saying that it is possible for alcohol to be a positive, enjoyable thing. That, and also showing that liability wise that drunk driving (or other dangerous activity after drinking, like drunk jetskiing) is by far the biggest problem because it is far easier and far more likely that someone will drink and drive and kill themselves/someone else than it is they will drink enough to stop breathing.</p>

<p>There are plenty of teens who are capable and competent enough to handle themselves and don't need much, if any, supervision; the amount of supervision necesscary depends on the kid."</p>

75

<p>posted on another thread:</p>

<p>" it is possible to die from alcohol poisoning, but most cases like that occur at college with kids who either a) don't know what they're doing drinking-wise or b) are being hazed and try to drink a ridiculous amount of alcohol in a night (a kid who tried to down two handles (~120 oz) of vodka after being told to and later died comes to mind)). Alcohol-related injuries (falls, etc.) are possible, but again serious ones (more than scrapes or minor bruises) are rare relative to the amount of drunken stupidity in the world."</p>

<p>"Don't try to intimidate me with medical facts; I know most any alcohol related fact backwards and forwards. I don't take blind risks, and I'm fully aware of the risks I take with drinking. In my mind, the benefits of drinking - the fun, the camaraderie, the burn of that first shot - vastly outweight the costs (I've paid my dues for drinking in a number of ways). I learned as much from drinking/partying during high school as I did from classes (and I took 14 APs), not to mention that while a lot of the things I learned in HS I'll never really use again (i.e. chemistry), I'll always use the skills I learned from drinking/partying (how to read a situation, a lot about people in general, etc.). You're every bit as ignorant as you accuse me of being, quiltguru."</p>

<p>(student's name), a Cornell student, whose screen name is Lucifer11287, as noted on facebook, passed away this weekend after attending a fraternity party at UVA.</p>

76

<p>as far as cigarettes, go, they are addictive, and I hate them, and i think smokers are dumb, you don't get addicted after the first puff, its the over and over again,</p>

<p>but with alcohol, it can be a quick death, and you count on your friends to take care of you, but they don't, </p>

<p>my H saw this girl passed out on the sidewalk last St Patricks day, her male friends,who were also drunk, just stood there, and left her there,while they leaned against a wall</p>

<p>my dear H called an ambulance, and the cops, and made sure those boys didn't leave, cause they were going to leave her there in her little skirt on the ground</p>

<p>what happens is that in frats and sor there can be a false sense of safety and brother and sister hood, that those people will take care of you, and that your friends will take care of you, as we can see, too often they have no clue or could care less</p>

77

<p>drunks make notoriously bad decision makers. Have a plan......before you drink. Call the trolley sooner than you think.</p>

78

<p>Oh lord. It was Lucifer that passed away? Very sad to hear this.</p>

79

<p>God, how sad. We send our children off to college and hope that they have good decision making skills. This generation has had more prep regarding alcohol and drug abuse than any in the past. They know our feelings about binge drinking, drugs and the rest. Once they arrive at college I think that they need to be reminded constantly of everything that Xiggi posted above regarding alcohol poisoning. Many schools try to do that. There are kids who feel invincible and just don't listen. At some point we have to cross our fingers, hope for the best and let them go.</p>

<p>I just feel horribly for the boy's family.</p>

80

<p>In addition to Gordie's site and story, you might want to visit <a href="http://www.samspadyfoundation.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.samspadyfoundation.org&lt;/a>. Sam Spady was a beautiful 19 year old freshman at Colorado State University when she died of alcohol poisoning in 2004. The foundation named for her will send out 10 wallet cards with the symptoms of alcohol poisoning. My d carries it with her, and I've given them to her friends. That way they can't say they didn't know. And they don't have to memorize it; they just have to look at the card.</p>