Parents, how many of you are sure your students don't party?

Parents Forum
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I’m not trying to be mean, but there is absolutely no way you can be reading my posts. I do not take a negative view of drinking in general. To use your terminology, it is not a binary matter. The fact that I do not take a postive view does not imply that I take a negative view. There is a third choice.</p>

<p>This is what I said -

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<p>Again, I am an engineer, I understand the notion of binary - no need for capitalization. Perhaps I need to explain to you that the choice of zero drinks is also a valid choice in a continuum - just as one drink, or two drinks, or 40 drinks is a choice.
Absolutely nowhere do I mentiion universal abstinence - I do not believe I even promoted abstinence in a positive light. I invite you to show me the place where I did. Because I do not believe it is a necessary or even beneficial choice for the vast majority of the population. I am debating your point - which is that there is some intangible, universal benefit to drinking in social situations, that somehow one cannot achieve without the ETOH. If what you have is a “balanced” perspective - that it doesn’t matter whether you choose 0, 1, 2, or 50 drinks - then I agree with you.</p>

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<p>I have known more than one parent that claims that their underage children do not and would not drink , usually because of a family member who has suffered because of alcoholism. Some of those very kids have hosted some rather large drinking parties when their parents are not home.
I have an acquaintance who believes wholeheartedly that her boys would never indulge
( because they have family board game nights , coach their sports , spend quality time ,etc ) and yet , their boys are very vocal in public about their alcohol and drug use
I never claimed that my daughters didn’t because I know they did…and really have very little interest in it these days , thank goodness.</p>

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<p>I never said that the benefit was universal. I said that it can often be beneficial and socially important.</p>

<p>Case in point: when I was a journalist, I had a couple of drinking buddies from other agencies with whom I’d grab a beer after work, and we’d discuss goings on. Without being able to meet with those guys, I would have had a harder time doing my job.</p>

<p>That’s just one example.</p>

<p>Another is my current job, where I’m often doing impromptu lunches and nightcaps with clients or partners. </p>

<p>I’m not saying that I necessarily NEED to drink. But it helps. That’s all.</p>

<p>If you choose not to, then so be it: you’ll probably do just fine. But it does become harder.</p>

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<p>My son is not a drinker at all. We have a very open relationship and I’ve even told him that if it’s something he’s considering doing, then I’d be open to it, at least to a certain extent. The only problem I see with parents today is absolutely forbidding their children will often times make them want to do it more, and in a more unsafe and unhealthy manner. I’ve always taught him that when he does start, just to be super safe.</p>

<p>Now, he’s going into college next year, I’m sure he will be partaking in the parties and such events. It’s going to be happen, so I’ve always thought it’s best to teach them the safest and best ways to do so at an early age. </p>

<p>Now don’t everyone think now that I condone or encourage underage drinking, but we all know it’s going to happen, so we might as well do what we can while we can.</p>

<p>-Jess</p>

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<p>To summarize my position and then duck out.</p>

<p>If I were speaking to a young person I would say that driniking alcohol is a personal choice. Many people find great enjoyment in it and do it repsonsibly. If you are one of these people, that’s great. Similarly, for most drugs - many people are able to use some drugs responsibly, with the following caveat - drugs are illegal, and this can lead to problems you might not encounter with alcohol. Employers may view drugs differently than alcohol, and sometimes you have to deal with a slightly seedier crowd to obtain drugs. Also some drugs are probably worse than others. Alcohol and drugs are best used in moderation.</p>

<p>Finally, if you do not feel any desire to drink or use drugs, that is your choice as well. It is not necessarily a better or worse choice - it is a personal choice. Just remember you can do exactly as well in life, and accomplish exactly the same things as someone who chooses to drink in moderation. THere is absolutely no intrinsic benefit to drinking that you cannot overcome with other personal qualities.</p>

<p>You don’t have to abstain to succeed in any career. You don’t have to drink to succeed in any chosen career. It doesn’t matter. Period. And if it matters, find another career.</p>

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<p>No tee-totaler here, though my genetics are such that after half a beer, I fall asleep. Couldn’t binge drink even if I wanted to. Grew up in NYC, and went to high school in the East Village in the mid 60s, and never met a drug I didn’t like (other than amphetamines). Luckily, I won the genetic draw on that one, too, and just, one day, said, “nuf of that”, quit, and never looked back. I had friends who used far less than I did end up with lifetime problems, addiction, and, in several cases, death. My kids know all of this, and for reasons I can’t figure out, turned out more straitlaced than I did.</p>

<p>I wish there were more moderate drinkers on campuses. I really do. The consistent data show that there simply aren’t that many - and chances are that if your kids say they have an occasional drink or two, it’s more like 6 or 7, at least once every two weeks. If they are white, and are at a place like Duke, at least 1 in 6 or 7 have had an alcohol blackout (which is said to have permanent neurological effects, as much as I’d like to believe otherwise.) About one out of three college heavy drinkers (kids who binge two or three times every two weeks, or have on average two or more drinks per day over the same period) will end up with serious alcohol problems/alcoholism later in life. The others will age out (though peaking at age 24 on average, not just when they leave college). In the meantime, besides the longer-term impacts, and the risk of drinking and driving, they are much more likely to be the subject of assaults, sexual assaults, rapes, and have personal property damaged or destroyed.</p>

<p>The European system doesn’t work. In those permissive societies where children learn to drink moderately alongside their parents, they have more, and in most cases, much more binge drinking, heavy drinking, and long-term serious alcohol problems/alcoholism. (Of course, some of that is genetic, too, as numbers in the U.S. are depressed by our higher non-white populations.) </p>

<p>I almost never run into events where I have to drink socially, so it is hasn’t been an issue for me. My first job out of college was working for a national church pension fund, and my job was to “entertain” the soon-to-retire ministers before we’d tell them their pensions wouldn’t be enough to live on. Many of them really needed to get to a bar by 11 a.m. (I didn’t know anything about long-term alcoholism before this job), and I quickly realized I’d have to make an arrangement with the local bartenders to “order” the real drink and get the fake one. </p>

<p>Frankly, I think for many students, college requirements seem much easier than they were 30 years ago - the amount of time students spend studying (nationally) is much less than 30 years ago, and the extra time isn’t taken up with work or internships. Between that, and some alcohol-fueled college sport events, and many students having much more money to burn than they used to, it isn’t surprising to me that there are lots of students who find themselves in trouble. </p>

<p>I don’t think the current law is ideal; I do think it better than all the alternatives I’ve seen (and I study them for a living).</p>

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Depends what part of Europe you’re talking about. I mentioned my parents; they are Scandinavian. You are probably right about France, though. Do you have those statistics disaggregated by country?</p>

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<p>Already posted them on this forum. (You can also find them on the web.) Denmark has the highest binge drinking rate among young people in Europe, followed by the Isle of Man, and then the UK. Highest binge drinking among young women are Norway, Sweden, and Iceland (don’t remember the order).</p>

<p>(Lowest used to be Portugal and Hungary.)</p>

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<p>Fair enough; thanks. My parents would never have given me alcohol in high school, but by the time I was 18 they didn’t mind.</p>

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<p>Interesting observation, mini, and one that I have also observed. I wonder why…</p>

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<p>I have to wonder if some of this is due to the extreme taxes they have on alcohol. I recall taking an overnight ferry between Sweden and Finland, and it was full of students trying to drink enough of the “75-percent-off” drinks to justify the cost of the ferry ride getaway.</p>

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<p>[BBC</a> News - Drinking over recommended limit ‘raises cancer risk’](<a href=“http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12999000]BBC”>Drinking over recommended limit 'raises cancer risk' - BBC News)</p>

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<p>Mini -</p>

<p>My friends and I call the fact that our kids are more straitlaced than we were “The Alex P. Keaton” effect…</p>

<p>One of my D’s friends actually wrote her admit essay on confronting her parents over their pot smoking - she’s at an Ivy and is one of two kids in the HS group who still doesn’t drink; the other one is my D.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure one can get a higher GPA than 4.0 at most schools for all 4 years…especially as STEM majors in schools known for being so rigorous that making a 3.3+ is a major achievement (i.e. MIT, CMU, Reed, etc). All of them had college GPAs well north of 3.7+. </p>

<p>IMHO, that renders any discussion about one’s SAT/ACT scores moot as their relevance usually ends the moment the undergrad matriculates at a given/college university. </p>

<p>While I leaned mostly toward the teetotaler side of the spectrum as an undergrad, I was always of the mind that it was not my business to be a moralistic busybody to fellow classmates who have the same presumably young adult status as I did…even if I started college at 17. By the same token, I’d have little tolerance of any classmate who’d try to do the same to me.</p>