Parents, how many of you are sure your students don't party?

Parents Forum
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<p>Frankly, people need to be very careful about this information-especially people looking for employment. The job market is tough enough these days. THe last time I was looking for an engineering job virtually all my potential employers told me I needed to take a pre employment drug screening by hair sample. Hair screens are primarily used to detect drugs which stay in the system a long time, in particular THC. When I eventually got an offer and took the test they found a prescription drug in my system and I had to produece evidence of a prescription. </p>

<p>My friend several years ago was denined employment at a railroad corporation because of THC in his system from a month earlier. It was devastating to his family.</p>

<p>Of course, all these places have policies against alcohol use as well, and test for that. It’s just that alcohol clears out of your system faster.</p>

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I’m sorry, this is about the most incredible piece of nionsense I’ve read in a while. Nobody cares at a professional organization if you drink with them or not. I have no idea where you have worked, but it is not my experience at all…</p>

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<p>bovertine,</p>

<p>I meant past marijuana usage. Not present. I’ll clear that up right now.</p>

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<p>They’re testing to make sure you don’t drink alcohol? You can’t consume alcohol?</p>

<p>Why would you even want to work at a job that’s breaking the law, or at the very least, treats you like a child?</p>

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<p>I work in international business, with a lot of Asian clients and partners. Let’s just say that being able to drink socially is pretty important. Or, at the very least, blend in with the drinkers.</p>

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My cynical mind tells me that it is statistically unlikely that all of these parents are right about this. Any one parent may be more likely than not right, but across a larger group, some of them will be wrong–and (in my opinion) they may all be equally sure that their kids don’t drink. What’s the point of saying this? Just that none of us should take anything for granted.</p>

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I should clarify that I meant companies have policies regarding alcohol use and some may test you if they feel you are under the influence on the job. It is not breaking the law - it is their policy to set, and your decision to leave if you don’t like it.</p>

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People may expect you to socialize for various types of employment, but that’s vastly different than feeling obligated to consume. To me, that’s just as much “treating someone as a child” as expecting them to be abstinient.</p>

<p>Believe me, I won’t go into details but I suspect I have a far more colorful past with respect to mind altering substances of all kinds than many people posting here. So I am fully aware that mere ocassional minor drug use in one’s past is not the kiss of death. But let’s not glorify it either. We aren’t all James Bond - drinking martinis and fighting off bad guys. I am just relating some things to take into consideration.</p>

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<p>bovertine,</p>

<p>It’s fine to test if you’re consuming on the job, but trying to keep an office full of teetotalers is absurd. American attitudes toward alcohol consumption in general are absurd, however, so I’m not surprised.</p>

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<p>You don’t have to consume, but at mixers or business dinners, it helps to blend in to be sure.</p>

<p>I’m not saying that you HAVE TO do anything, but that it can be helpful. Or, at the very least, learn how to blend in as a teetotaler.</p>

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<p>Hunt, I agree nobody should be “sure” they know anything about anyone, including the person they are married to, including, it seems, at times, ourselves. That being said, I am reasonably certain my kid drinks the occaisonal glass of wine or has a few beers socially, with the rare celebratory new year’s eve type event…</p>

<p>But, would I swear on her life? No. That would be idiotic.</p>

<p>As for having to monitor whether or not my 20 year is drinking? I resent it, frankly. Either she is an adult in the eyes of the law, or she is not. I find it ridiculous.</p>

<p>Maybe somebody should write a book called: “Helicopter Governing: How the Law is Ruining our Children.”</p>

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<p>In some professional situations, especially in major cities, not drinking does bring unwanted attention. My husband does not drink at all and has developed a drink or two- mocktails-that he orders directly from the bartender. He drinks maybe two all night long, and most times he does not bring any attention to himself- which is his point. Making a point to say he doesn’t drink instantly makes people think he has a drinking problem, whether they say so or not. Drinking problem=less than ideal employee/service provider. Never mind the people who ARE drinking may have a drinking problem-that will go unquestioned. Sadly, making a point to order soda water or such can take conversations in a different direction when the goal is to discuss professional opportunities or network.</p>

<p>Going out for drinks after work (in many industries) is a huge networking leg up. Women who are trying to climb the ladder know this all too well- gottta break into those after work pow wow’s of the guys- which almost always include a drink or two. </p>

<p>I have always worked in the financial sector, and oh boy, the 80’s-2001ish, that was a challenge. Especially once I had children and had to scoot as soon as the markets closed. I even had this included in 360 reviews- that I needed to “go out after work and socialize more” which always included hours of drinking. This is LA, SF, NY and Chicago, so maybe that has something to do with it.</p>

<p>I have noticed once over 45 yrs old, it is much easier to socialize and not drink- maybe because so many need to stop drinking by then or know they should! But 20-40 yrs it is something that needs to be navigated if you are going to be included in the after hours networking, conferences and client dinners.</p>

<p>Agree with UCLAAri. </p>

<p>Also, parents need to remember what it was like when we drove the little darlings everywhere- they sat in the back seat and you got a real earful. They seemed to forget we were not just limo drivers! During that time, I learned there was not a “good boy” in the bunch- each one had their mean, mouthy moments. Yet I would hear parents discuss another child’s behavior and claim theirs would NEVER do such and such. At that time it was petty infractions, mainly manners. But, the parents that past judgment and gossip on other children often had very mean, mouthy, ill mannered children—sometimes. </p>

<p>High School never changed my point of view on this- and I still feel this way in college. Most of the time, they are all doing the same thing to various degrees- and this includes drinking, sex and pot. At least experimenting with it. Some will come out with real problems, most won’t.</p>

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<p>OlympicLady,</p>

<p>Thank you for better expressing my thoughts with more experience and wisdom.</p>

<p>I’m not a big drinker myself (mostly because it gets in the way of my physical conditioning), but I have noticed that being able to enjoy a drink or two at a “social business” dinner has been helpful for me. At the very least, it lets me be invisible when I need to be, as I’m usually the most junior in the bunch.</p>

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<p>I’ve been both a journalist and now a market researcher in tech-- both included drinking social events. </p>

<p>Plus, nothing helps keep the night sane like a really good martini. High quality gin only, of course.</p>

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<p>Poetgrl: Too funny! Write the book! I too was sick of monitoring my 20 yr old- so happy when he turned 21, he is the youngest in the whole family- sibs, cousins etc. so holidays were a real challenge. Especially because his Bio Dad let him drink since he was a teenager. I was the meanie and the uptight one. Oh, but when he turned 21! I threw him one great 2 day party for his friends who where 21 and re-wrote my whole history as a uptight mom in on short weekend.</p>

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<p>poetgrl, I’m with you. I understand the MADD issues and dangers of drinking and smoking weed, but if they can vote and go to war and smoke cigarettes and live on their own and be kicked out of the system if they are foster kids and pay taxes, they should be able to have a drink. And they’re going to do anyway.</p>

<p>We did not police our D1 when she went to college-- we knew her maturity level and that she wasn’t a wild partier, and we trusted her to figure it out, which she has. I have no intention of policing D2, not that I could anyway, since she’ll be 3,000 miles away. </p>

<p>As for UCLA vs. Bovertine, YMMV depending on the field you’re in, but UCLA is right for many fields. A research scientist’s career will not depend on how well he/she socializes after work. But it can be very important in so many other fields: finance, real estate, publishing, entertainment, corporate management, fundraising, sales, journalism, the arts, politics… I’m not saying drinking itself is important, but social skills and friendship networks and people skills are tremendously important. Drinking often plays a part in that. Those who can’t/shouldn’t/don’t want to drink must learn how to navigate at bars and parties and dinners out if they want to succeed in certain fields.</p>

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<p>Funny anecdote: Candace Lightner, founder of MADD, said the organization she started “has become far more neo-prohibitionist than I had ever wanted or envisioned … I didn’t start MADD to deal with alcohol. I started MADD to deal with the issue of drunk driving.”</p>

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<p>“So how do you know your child is a non-partier?”</p>

<p>My kid is at our local community college. Since we are a one-car family, that means she takes the city bus or one of us drives her there and back. Or she catches a ride with another parent or one of the two friends who have cars. Her major is very demanding and requires late hours. They are lucky if they get off campus to pick up a sandwich at Subway. So no, there just isn’t time to party.</p>

<p>Might she be getting up to something at her friends’ homes when she’s there overnight? Conceivably, but we’ve known these parents since elementary school and drinking is not part of their lifestyle. Right now the biggest over-indulgence I’ve heard of is spending too much money on fancy cupcakes at the cupcake bakery in town.</p>

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<p>It is bizarre to me that people feel they can’t socialize for some reason without drinking, or that ethanol is some magic elixir for the business world. This sounds like some throwback to the 1960s. What is so hard about “navigating” at bars and nightclubs and parties without booze? </p>

<p>Hugh Hefner drinks Diet Pepsi, I think he hardly ever drinks alcohol. I don’t think he ever had trouble fitting in on the social scene.</p>

<p>If you feel like having a couple cocktails and you enjoy it, have at it. If you can perform better with ten Long Island Ice Teas, that’s your business too. But if you can’t socialize properly without belting down a few, that’s pretty sad. If you just feel like you need to hold a glass in your hand, that’s equally sad to me, but you can always guzzle a few Arnold Palmers. </p>

<p>BTW - I’m technically not in sales or business, although I’ve done a good deal of what I call “technical liaison” type work in my last two positions -currently domestically but in my former position internationally. Yes, I’ve been expected to socialize, which in most cases involved going out to dinner with some people. Nobody batted an eye when I didn’t drink. </p>

<p>Maybe they looked at me a little askance when I begged off the karioke or gentlemen’s club later in the evening. I don’t recall. But I did fine in my career as far as I can tell.</p>

<p>To me, since I stopped drinking, it’s sure a lot safer and easier than always worrying if I’m under the legal limit or finding alternate transportation home.</p>

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<p>bovertine,</p>

<p>I’m not suggesting that you have to drink to be successful, just that having a healthy and grounded attitude toward it can often be important and helpful in one’s career. </p>

<p>It’s fine to avoid the after work socializing. I do it more often than not. However, being able to at least drink a glass of wine at a nice dinner, or have a cocktail with colleagues can also be incredibly helpful.</p>

<p>I respect teetotalers, and would never pressure anyone to drink. But to pretend that drinking isn’t something that is often socially helpful in the professional world, even today, seems deliberately naive. </p>

<p>I’m not telling anyone that they necessarily SHOULD drink. I’m telling them that having a healthy and balanced attitude toward it will be incredibly helpful socially and professionally. Big difference. </p>

<p>Americans love binaries: you’re either a teetotaler or a wino. There is a very healthy middle ground, and that’s what we should be teaching. Not this DARE crap that makes kids think that even having a single drink will ruin their lives. That’s the foundation for binging and unhealthy drinking.</p>

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<p>My parents are aware that I drink. I am 21 now, but when I wasn’t, they only cared to the extent that I stayed safe and out of trouble. They trust me to be responsible, and I am.</p>

<p>Once sophomore fall I got sick after drinking too much at a friend’s fraternity formal. I think they considered it a teachable moment, more than anything. I did learn my lesson; I never had that much again.</p>

<p>My parents are also European, which may influence their viewpoint. Where we’re from you’re legal at 18.</p>

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I’m not pretending. It may seem naive to you, but I am relating my experience. I’m certain that drinking is extremely helpful to people who can’t socialize without a nip or two. Other than that, nobody with whom I have ever socialized -either a professional or personal relationship - has given one rat’s a$$ whether I consumed alcohol or not, provided I did not overconsume and that I did not judge them on their drinking habits (which I do not). I think I may have encountered that kind of peer pressure or judgement in high school, maybe a little in college, but not since then. Whether one drinks or not has been about as relevant as whether they liked salsa or not. To me that’s how it should be. </p>

<p>I am obviously not in the same profession as you. To the extent that there are professions where people are judged based on whether or not they drink, well, I’m glad I am not in those professions.</p>

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Of course one should be able to have a drink. I’m not talking about prohibition. But you are claiming a positive benefit from the drink. Maybe it would clarify it for me if you could explain how the drinking is helpful, rather than merely asserting that it is. Are you claiming some sort of bonding based on what beverage I drink? </p>

<p>And I’m sorry to be blunt. But to exactly what type of person does it matter whether or not I have an alcoholic beverage when I am dining with them? I would hope they would judge me by my conversation, which may or may not be scintillating, regardless of my BAC. Again, if for some reason I need that cocktail to “loosen up” well, that’s a different matter. But it’s still my buisness alone.</p>

<p>So, tio summarize - I’m saying it shouldn’t matter. Alcohol use per se should neither be villianized nor glamorized. I believe that is the healthy, balanced position</p>

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<p>“There are like 4 or 5 parents on here who have said their kids don’t drink. I mean, this is not particularly statistically unlikely.”
“My cynical mind tells me that it is statistically unlikely that all of these parents are right about this.”</p>

<p>Hunt, in 150 posts, four parents say their kids don’t drink, and that is statistically unlikely? That is what this post is about after all, not whether or not one should or should not indulge.</p>

<p>What are the odds of four ( out of what I’m guessing is at least 2000) CC parents being right about having children who don’t drink?</p>

<p>We are going on and on about drug/ETOH use as a measure of functioning, morality, etc, as if there are not worst things that parents of abstainers might be dealing with. What about eating disorders? What about self mutilation? Do you HAVE to bring them down about believing their kids don’t drink?</p>

<p>And frankly, to me, what is more compelling is the number of ADULTS who lie, to themselves, or to others, about their drinking. </p>

<p>Now THAT would be a good survey!</p>

<p>BTW, I have some intimate knowledge of the potential for court marital in the military, related to marijuana use, even if it is revealed well after the fact.</p>

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<p>bovertine,</p>

<p>I’m not trying to be mean, but you seem to take an awfully negative view of drinking in general. You seem to be taking everything I say and turning it into a binary-- YES or NO.</p>

<p>I’m not saying it’s NECESSARY. Just that it’s often quite helpful. Why do you insist upon turning this into a black or white thing? It’s not. </p>

<p>All I’m suggesting is that instead of browbeating kids with messages that alcohol is some rank evil, we should be treating it as something that can be good in moderation. </p>

<p>We are not going to make everyone into a teetotaler, but we can help young people develop healthy, moderate attitudes toward drinking that will carry them through adulthood and possibly even benefit their careers, social lives, and provide them enjoyment.</p>

<p>If you don’t ever need to drink, that’s great. I, and many others, enjoy the occasional drink. It’s much better to be realistic about this and tell young people that it can be to their benefit than to try to make everyone abstain. </p>

<p>Look, as far as I’m concerned, abstention education doesn’t work in most areas, and it certainly doesn’t work with alcohol. The key is to teach people how to be responsible.</p>

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<p>Well said! It’s interested in how often people are labeled, especially if their behaviors stand out from the crowd. When I was a teenager, I lived in Germany and went to school there for a bit over a year. All but two in my class smoked and I was one of them. Of course, I would get teased and constantly offered cigarettes. Finally, one day I accepted – which really threw my classmates off balance. I think I smoked 3 cigarettes over the course of a year, but that somehow managed to shut everyone up. Over the course of the last 35 years, I think I’ve probably finished off an entire pack of 20, usually partaking just for the look on my companions’ faces as I break away from the label they had chosen for me.</p>

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<p>LoremIpsum,</p>

<p>I’m an odd duck with smoking. I hate cigarettes, but I love a good cigar, and I own a hookah that comes out frequently in the summer. Go figure.</p>