<p>The general rule of thumb at our house was that everyone had to keep an open mind during the search process. We would look into any schools that S was interested in and he would look at any that we thought might be a good choice for him. Financial constraints, if applicable, should be laid out on day one. Applications would only be sent to schools that we were all happy with, but the final choice of which school to attend was the student's. I hate when parents let kids apply to schools they have no intention of allowing them to attend. Choosing a school in April can be difficult enough without arguing over whether or not a particular school is appropriate. You and your D should be happy with every school on her list. Fortunately, taking a collaborative approach from the beginning, we avoided any major diagreements with our kids.</p>
<p>College major-completely the student's choice. I am not going to be the one studying and working in that field for 50 years. If they find something they love, they can find a way to be successful doing it and success can be defined in many ways. I also don't mind if they go in undeclared and find their path along the way, especially a younger or more immature child. This will probably be the route my youngest takes.</p>
<p>Because my son knew what he wanted to do from the time he was in sixth grade; because he worked hard and began to develop his passion; because he said that he didn't want to go to graduate school, but wanted to start his career as soon as possible; because we began saving and investing money for college from the day he was born, were paid beyond decently, and only had the one child, cost was not an issue. Once he got into film school at USC thats where he was going to go. That he got a small scholarship was an unexpected bonus and not determinative.</p>
<p>My son and I divided up the college selection process. He focused on his school work. I picked the colleges. It worked well although he later said that he wished he had finished his application to Northwestern. Considering that I had already paid the application fee, I too wish he had finished, but boy what a test of stamina that application was; six essays. He didnt take my advice that he should respond to the question on what famous Chicago figures should be painted on a wall by some highway. I suggested the Chicago 8. </p>
<p>He did apply to three of our state schools, at my direction, because we had an understanding that if he didn't get into USC he would go in-state or to UNC. Admittedly it would have been a tough call. As much as I like USC, I doubt it would have been worth the money without the film school since he could have gone in-state to UVA or, at less money than USC, to UNC. BTW, he once asked me if he could apply to Duke. I said sure. He said that he didnt want to, he was just testing to see if we, my wife and I met at UNC in graduate school, would allow him to do it. He said appreciated that he could.</p>
<p>I was guided by what my father told me when I was younger. Even though he made proportionately less money that I do, and he had two other children to send to college, he told me that he would send me to the best college I could get into. Cost was not an issue. My wife and I firmly believed that we would do the same for our child, which we did. His education is our gift to him.</p>
<p>Like tsdad, we, too, told our kids we would support their undergraduate studies at the best school to which they gained admittance. Interestingly, for both kids, the schools they ended up attending were not on their radar screens, but we identified them as possibilities. Thankfully, they were grateful that we had suggested them, and S especially appreciates that we encouraged him to apply since he thought he had a snowball's chance of getting accepted.</p>
<p>Our philosophy was to offer a potpourri of schools for them to investigate and visit. In discussion with us, they were responsible for determining which ones were good fits or not. We did not insist on the actual decision to attend a particular school versus any other, but we did insist that the kids consider a wide variety of schools for comparison purposes.</p>
<p>To the point of what parents have to say in terms of what they study. While I am a big fan of the liberal arts, and am now in a technical business with a Comp Lit undergraduate degree, at this point I am still urging my D to take as much math and science as she can while still enjoying it. </p>
<p>Math and science are v. difficult to learn outside the academic environment if you don't have the foundation. Humanities, to my mind, you just have to be able to read and you can teach yourself....So D can choose her major etc. but I caution her that no matter what you major in, you will have to take an entry level job. And in that entry level job, you will have to do entry level work. And if you are capable of quantitative entry level work that's a good thing. You may take a wholly different career direction, but it's good to have under your belt.</p>
<p>I am in no way advocating a kid who doesn't like math or science to take this route however. The basic talent and interest would have to be in place.</p>
<p>-Do you let them have free reign as long as finances are not a problem or if they can get a scholarship? </p>
<p>K, finances were everything! So scholarships and financial aid was perhaps the most important component! But it can work out sooo well.</p>
<p>-Do you let them go wherever they want no matter what? </p>
<p>No</p>
<p>-Do you insist on a major or college that is more likely to land them a job? </p>
<p>Absolutely not.</p>
<p>-Do you insist on any requirements in a college that your child does not particularly agree with?</p>
<p>No, no, no!</p>
<p>I realize our situation is different than most but I find myself really liking certain colleges, wanting to steer her towards them and I wonder if this is somewhat normal.</p>
<p>I did too, but in vain! He got accepted to all of them, but chose his favorite. My advice, give your advice, help where you can and then relax. Their ideas are what will steer their future.</p>
<p>Our family did not/will not qualify for need based aid. The financial part was limited to "how much money do you want to have left over/not have loans for?" A lot of people don't realize there are many, many top-notch schools out there that are much less expensive than the Ivy+ group. S1 is at Caltech, which every year has been 5-8K less than MIT or Ivies.</p>
<p>We have had, definitely, veto power over some schools. I absolutely refuse to pay this much money for an inferior product, and so we have insisted that our children will not graduate from college uneducated. What this means to us is that we have eliminated schools without any distribution/core requirements. This means both LAC's (Hampshire College and its ilk), and universities without small group, honors college type environments. And a few others, based purely on our own bias ;).</p>
<p>I must say that we have been diligent in studying catalogues to see if the distribution requirements can be satisfied by non-rigorous classes, i.e. something like "Impact of Fashion on Women's Roles in Society: the Middle Ages" or similar garbage. Don't laugh-- this satisfied the history requirement at XYZ college. In short, we have made it clear to our boys that this is a very expensive investment and that it's their job to make the most of it.</p>
Of course, you're probably preaching to the choir here, but this is SO true. Every school on the application list has to be a financial possibility - that's Job 1 for the parents to clarify in the beginning. And allowing a kid to apply to a school which you figure you can nix later - what's up with that? Watching the fallout from this process on this board in April is crazy-making and, in some cases, heart-wrenching.</p>
<p>Now, we do see kids in April who have managed to live on this planet for 18 years in some kind of a financial ignorance bubble: thinking they can borrow the full $45K/year; thinking that their parents have No Right to set a limit on what they will pay; having no idea of the various places a parent's salary needs to go. This results from a default in the process which started long before college application season. IMHO.</p>
<p>My D's college app process consisted of her picking the schools and me nagging her to do all the applications. Although, I must admit, that she ultimately chose a school that I suggested she apply to at the last minute because she was so un-enamored with all her other choices. But after all the acceptances and rejections, she made her choice. She did take into consideration finances - we could afford wherever but she choose the private school with the ultimately lowest cost. She kept pestering me to tell her which school I thought she should go to and I refused. I kept telling her it was her decision and we supported that decision.</p>
<p>The only requirement we have in our house is that you MUST apply to one in-state school and by Sept. 1. I want that one acceptance in-hand so even if my kid does nothing else, there's one place they can go.</p>
<p>Similar to Fredo. D picked schools, I nagged about getting the apps done.
Developing criteria was almost like a family exercise, aided by the stimulation and data provided by visiting colleges. D app profile was just slightly odd: three HYPSM (all denied), three womens colleges (all accepted), and a Safety that she was relieved to not have to go to.
But that's what popped out of the slot when she had finished distilling everything.</p>
<p>
[quote]
-Do you let them have free reign as long as finances are not a problem or if they can get a scholarship?</p>
<p>-Do you let them go wherever they want no matter what?
[/quote]
As you note, every situation is different. My son had very little interest in the college search. He didn't want to attend a preppy college (he'd visited many during his high school debate years). He wanted a college in a major league city. He wanted a college where an interest in learning was respected. And he was very busy and not interested in doing a lot of college tours. So I came up with a modest sized list, mainly consisting of liberal arts colleges (which didn't exactly satisfy the major league city requirement) and others with a more "intellectual" orientation, but with some variation in location, competitiveness of admissions, and atmospherics. And he honed this down to a half dozen, plus our large in-state flagship colleges in Michigan. There was no agony and no wrangling over this; no search for the perfect school. Just an agreement on a market-basket of schools with a reasonably good fit. If he'd have wanted to go to any of them, it was fine with us! In the end he chose one with the right atmospherics plus major league city (UChicago). No muss, no fuss.</p>
<p>
[quote]
-Do you insist on a major or college that is more likely to land them a job?
[/quote]
This was left totally up to him. We encouraged him to "give science a chance," which he did, but he went in the direction of a social science (economics) that drew on his math and other analytic skills. This was never an issue.</p>
<p>
[quote]
-Do you insist on any requirements in a college that your child does not particularly agree with?
[/quote]
No.</p>
<p>For our daughter the situation was different. She decided in sophomore year of high school that she wanted to be an artist and to attend an art school in a big city, preferably in the east. We didn't try to dissuade her from majoring in art because we thought she had the talent. Our main effort was to make sure she considered other types of schools -- not just art schools -- that had strong art majors. She did not want to attend, and therefore did not apply to, our flagship universities. In the end, she was admitted to 4 art schools and CMU. She chose RISD.</p>
<p>In the end, most parents are going to be involved in the college process the same way they are involved in other family decisions. Some parents never say no to their children, so why would they say no now? Some parents make all the decisions for their children, so why wouldnt they make this one as well? By the time children are seniors, most children are usually making their own decisions within certain constraints imposed by parents, and that is probably what most parents will do with college as well. Most parents have schools that they either explicitly tell their children they will not support or which they secretly pray their children wont select. And most parents have a list of schools that they will accept, even though their order of preference may be different than that of their children. Whatever decision making process you have been using up to this point, if its working, just keep using it.</p>
<p>PDaddy
I so agree with you about some parents never saying "no". I've run into parents who think their child is absolutely the best. One such family traveled to see the most elite schools. They looked crushed when I tried to suggest realistic schools. They have so indoctrinated child that she is among the best that they won't be honest with themselves about her real chances. The child refuses to look at anything less than HYPS. Parents on CC gain perspective on how difficult and chancey acceptances are, and certainly don't set our children up for sense of failure</p>
<p>I think that parents have every right to establish some reasonable parameters early on, particularly as it relates to out of pocket costs. We have no right to mandate what the student chooses to study, what type(LAC, public U, private U) the student perfers, where the student chooses to live(dorm, off campus apt), or other such matters.</p>
<p>I think location is a tricky one. I do think the parents can urge students to attend a college within a reasonable driving distance(500 miles??) but if the student has a clear first choice further away the parents should be flexible. </p>
<p>Here is a scenario that I would like comment on. Student has gotten the fat envelope from P'ton but insists on following the girl/boy friend to Poduck U. Money is not at issue. What is a parent to do, insist on the rational choice or let the student make perhaps a life altering mistake?</p>
<p>I let my daughter make up her own mind and choose where she wanted to go. If she asked me for advice (and she did), I gave it honestly. Finances are not a material factor - all things being equal - it would be nice if she looked for a better value but as the offspring of a single unemployed mother and who was to school on an athletic scholarship - my kid goes where she wants.</p>
<p>My S liked two schools, both reaches. We convinced him to apply to some matches and two safeties. As it turned out he was accepted at his reaches. The agony came when it came to make a decision. We let him make the decision completely on his own, except reminding him that he had one day left to decide! He loves where he is and said all along it was where he wanted to be, but the other school was so nice to him, it was hard to say no. Kids!</p>
<p>my mom can't even name the schools that I'm applying to. I don't fault her in the least because she's sick and she has so much to worry about already.</p>
<p>Being the parent of three college grads and one senior in high school, I cannot imagine giving your children free reign as to choice of college. We have the maturity and the wisdom to see beyond what they see. Parents should not be afraid to influence the decision.</p>
<p>JMMOM - The problem with only permitting your son or daughter apply to colleges that are "financial possibilities" is that you really don't know what the school is going to cost until he or she gets the financial aid award letter from a school and the results of scholarships applied for are released. We allowed our daughter to apply to any school she wanted but insisted that she apply to several "financial" safety schools which were extremely likely give her large merit scholarhips. If your family has an expected family contribution of close to zero, then Harvard or Princeton might end up costing the same as the local community college. The major problem that many family face is when the Expected Family Contribution is more than a family can really afford.
But you really don't know for sure until the student gets the award letter. When we sorted out the award letters in April of our daughter's senior year we found out the cost of attendance for her freshman year would be roughly the same at three private liberal arts colleges. However, at two of the colleges the aid was all need-based aid which could drop substantially if our income increased during her college years. One of the colleges offerred guaranteed merit aid for four years that was equal to the need based aid at the other colleges. The school that offerred the guaranteed merit aid was her first choice school. Thus if our income went up substantially the amount for tuition would not increase, if it would decrease we would get need aid to supplement the merit aid. It ended up that cost of attendance at one of the public universities ended up being more than her preferred private college since the public university changed its scholarship policies for out of state students in February of her senior year.</p>
<p>I'd imagine that in the vast majority of cases, the student chooses the college. But, in CC land, I'd assume that the parents do 90% of the work/decision making.</p>