<p>I don't think either of those positions is sustained by the posts on this board.</p>
<p>I'd say I do about 99-100% of the work/decision making. And my mom is in no way afraid to influence the situation, it's just that when you have multiple sclerosis, hepatitis, and skin cancer you cant put too much effort into anything.</p>
<p>my parents play no part in my college process at all... basically they suggest schools i say no and keep going about my business. Well now that i think about it, i did apply to wisconsin-madison b/c they wanted me to. But I dont seriously consider attending any of the schools they suggest. Im probably different from most cc'ers in that im only seriously considering 2 schools.</p>
<p>
Student has gotten the fat envelope from P'ton but insists on following the girl/boy friend to Poduck U. Money is not at issue. What is a parent to do, insist on the rational choice or let the student make perhaps a life altering mistake?
Are you prescient? How do you know which choice is the life-altering mistake? It very well can be that Podunk U. is the place where the as-yet-unknown opportunity will arise, perhaps because that is where the student will stand out - while the HYP school may simply be a place where the student will feel overwhelmed or out of place. We parents obviously have a view that is borne of experience... but sometimes we forget the most important lesson of experience: that much of what is most significant in our life occured due to unforeseen or unplanned happenstance. </p>
<p>At some point we all have to let go and let our kids make their own choices. That doesn't mean that we can't try to guide them or urge them to follow one route -- but I think that the greatest gift we can give our kids as they reach adulthood is the right to choose how they will live their lives - including the right to make their own mistakes. I can't say in what corner of the world my kids will end up finding the love of their lives or the precise connection that becomes the entry point to their future careers. </p>
<p>I do feel that some of the seminal events in my life have occured only due to fate, providence, or some extremely improbable and lucky coincidences. So I don't discount the gut level sense that just makes a choice feel "right" even when others are arguing that it is wrong. You never know.</p>
<p>I don't think it is a point of choosing Pton over Podunk for academics but choosing Podunk because your student is following the bf/gf that they feel they cannot live without.</p>
<p>Other kids seem to know so much about colleges. We moved a year ago and d doesn't have a tremendous number of friends and doesn't get a lot of input from other kids about colleges. She also doesn't have many strong opinions about schools or a lot of time to do research. So I have pretty much taken over the process along with some input from h. I feel that in order to make a good decision I must also come up with some kind of possible career scenarios for my d. I realize that people think I am controlling but d. seems happy to have me do the legwork for her. Of course she can pick her own career later on but I am trying to give her guidance so she doesn't close her options. For example, she is pretty bad in math by nature but unless she goes into law, most careers will require math so I have encouraged her to take honors math even if it means getting tutored, going in in the morning for extra help and even in the extreme, taking math over the summer! Friends and counselors have said, why does she ever need to take calculus? But I think she can do it and should. Sorry to be off track at the end!</p>
<p>Influence in college choice? Yes, but only in making sure they're considering all angles before making a decision. For S that wanted Information Systems career after college, before visiting various schools on his list, I would just suggestion questions he might want answered, rather than telling him what I thought. For example, in visiting more remote colleges: "Since you want a technical degree, does this school have partnerships with area businesses for good internships?" He remembered to ask revealing questions like this at the interviews, and the answers crossed several schools off his list. I think it's just a matter of making sure they're thinking of all the angles, rather than making decisions for them. Regarding choice of majors - That's a hard one. I work in a company where I'm amazed at the variety of degrees people have - Most have absolutely nothing to do with their current job. They are all very well-educated though, with excellent reasoning, problem-solving and interpersonal skills, which brought them far in the company.</p>
<p>My parents have been surprisingly hands-off during the whole college process. They are hardcore conservatives, but didn't fuss when I told them I was applying to schools like Brown and Vassar. The only issue is money, but since I will be paying for the majority of my education, they have given me all choosing rights. Fair, in my opinion.</p>
<p>We're not there yet, but the plan is to see what type of students the kids are at that point, and guide them towards certain places that we know of, have visited ourselves during our college years, or have friends who've been there and had good experiences. H and I are both partial to smaller institutions as opposed to massive State U's........of course, kids get the final say, but we will definitely have a big hand in it. At that age its a huge decision to make on their own with no experience.</p>
<p>dke, your thinking exactly matches ours when our son was coming up through high school. I'm in the "higher education business" and have visited dozens of campuses over the years, and this definitely came into play.</p>
<p>The work that eventually leads to the final outcome, the decision, is broad in scope and requires considerable effort for a student/family who is aiming at the Very Best Situation (however it is defined). It is a team effort, and Karl Marx's dictum applies: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." I've always thought of that statement more as a relatively clear expression statement of intrinsic spiritual law, not as an impractical principle upon which to structure government.</p>
<p>I couldn't get my son to take the least bit of interest in the process for a long long time - this vaccuum of planning and leadership was too hard for me to bear ("It's his future at stake, I must ensure that all the doors stay open!") so I leaped into the breach for three years of research, making the first long list of schools, dragging him along to visits, etc., talked at him about this or that feature of a college while he was playing video games, etc. While he, by contrast, was the proverbial grasshopper, simply enjoying his daily academic and performing life, taking no thought for the morrow!</p>
<p>I had to push and prod during the application process, trying to help him fit in the apps between performances and rehearsals, and taking care of ALL admin tasks - the only tasks he did himself were recs, essays, and short answers, all at the last minute - e.g., we sent in two apps online with less than 60 seconds to spare because he was editing his essay. Had I left everything up to him, he might have only applied to one school, the University of Maryland, and that would be that. I just wasn't willing to take that chance, nor did I wish to adopt the role of the avenging angel with fire and sword.</p>
<p>The decision came down to a one-hour discussion within a few days of May 1. I exclaimed that if he didn't give me up to two hours of his uninterrupted time, I would take out the shotgun and he would make the decision at gunpoint! (I don't have a gun, but you get the idea - choose or die, or as the Phantom cried "You try my patience! Make your choice!"). When he finally consented to sit still and focus, he was quite rational, expressed his perceptions about the positives and negatives, and then listened to my detailed explanation about the financial consequences for him of one choice versus another (illustrated with a spreadsheet that I handed to the Little Prince and required him to read). </p>
<p>The final decision wasn't in doubt for a minute - as I have mentioned before, when he talked about his first choice, his eyes just lit up, and that was that. We were done. (Well, he was done - I still had months of logistical planning and preparation, punctuated by dramatic moments, like taping up the cardboard box around a huge trunk with a half mile of duct tape while the DHL courier stood there tapping his foot and looking at his watch).</p>
<p>I would say that the degree of parent involvement required during the process depends on the student, just as the rest of parenting does up to that point. You have to parent the individual you were blessed with, not your projections. Mine required lots of support because he just was not future-oriented (other than stating that he would pursue one or more advanced degrees, in a subject or subjects yet to be determined) and was also extremely busy from dawn until dark, a (partially) valid excuse.</p>
<p>Having a generous handful of acceptable-to-great choices is a very good place to be on April 1. Whatever a parent can, or must, do to support that outcome should be the target. If the student is willing to take the lead, wonderful, but if not, I think you should be "willing to do what is necessary." (Nods to the film Body Heat). Following that, guidance and outlining the likely consequences (academic, location, ECs, career opps, finances) during April is required to support the decision.</p>
<p>At the moment of truth, the student must decide - it was crystal clear to me the second he stated his choice that if I had disagreed (which, other than groaning inwardly about the scholarships he turned down, I didn't) I would be, in effect, interfering in his destiny. Bad karma, no thank you!</p>
<p>well... as a student/child, I can just beg you not to get too involved. My parents didn't even care about the college process. They took me to visit one school, and that was the extent of the work they did for me.
But then on Friday they decided for me that I would be going ED to a school because they remember me expressing interest in it. While I do like that school a lot, I'm afraid I might find a school I like more later. They tell me I can just transfer and have no choice. So, I've got 3 more days to finish this ED application.</p>
<p>I would say that parents should be somewhere in between those two extremes.</p>
<p>My parents change their level of control depending on the child.</p>
<p>Oldest brother was not into the college process at all, but he wanted to play a Division III sport, and needed help finding colleges. My parents picked some out, and they visited. Both parents and Brother had veto power, but before Brother could veto a school, he had to describe the reasons to my parents. I think this was only because Brother really wanted to play his sport, but he REALLY needed to go to a small liberal arts school to do it, and small LACs aren't quite his style. They found a school everyone could live with, and everyone's happy now.</p>
<p>I'm different. I am very involved in the college selection process, and probably know more about it than my parents. They are limiting me to the number of application fees they will pay for (8, which I think is very reasonable) and to how many schools I can visit (they told me they will institute limits 4 ways: price of airfare/gas, hours of travel, state border lines crossed, or schools: they will select the limits as they see fit). They definitely don't like some aspects of schools, but they curiously seem to counterbalance each other: my dad hates artsy schools but my mom thinks it would a good environment for me, my mom wants me to stay nearby but my dad thinks that I need to leave the state, my mom's a fan of big-fish-small-pond while my dad has the go-to-the-best-place-that-will-have-you philosophy, but they both agree that they would prefer that if I must go to an urban school, it be in a safe/nice section of town (bye bye UChicago). </p>
<p>I do have 2 issues with their philosophy, though: My dad especially will randomly hate a school because he didn't like someone who went there, or he the person he knew didn't like it (I tried to explain that one person's experience 30 years ago shouldn't mean the end, but whatever). My parents also refuse to tell me about finances. They say that they will deal with it later, but I would much rather find out which schools will cost an arm and a leg and which will cost a finger. They want me to absolutely love the school I go to, and they think knowing exactly how much it is costing the family will deter love for the big expensive schools.</p>
<p>I want to go into humanties majors, not necessarily well-paying ones. They aren't restricting me in any way, but my GC is going overboard in that direction.</p>
<p>
[quote]
and guide them towards certain places that we know of, have visited ourselves during our college years, or have friends who've been there and had good experiences.
[/quote]
The problem I (respectfully) see with this approach is how much has changed since we were in college (at least if you're my age :rolleyes: ). Not so much that the schools we "know" would be drastically changed, but that there are so many great schools which were not on our radar screen.</p>
<p>Great post, yulsie!</p>
<p>And, as an aside, it is always such a comfort to hear - yet again - how similar these boys can be. There is a temptation, at least on my part, to imagine that the talented chorister now at Oxbridge must, perforce, be very different from my DS, showing dedication and diligence in every corner of his life. OMG, even you had to try to break through the video game clutter! Comforting.</p>
<p>My parents always gave me full reign. A bit more full reign than I expected. The only thing they knew about my college application was that I sat for 4 hours each day on the computer and I got accepted some 3 months later. No personal talk, no advice, no arguments, no discussions about financial situations. They just signed whatever form I brought to them. While it gave me freedom, It did not do much to relieve my anxiety.(except some casual "cool down, kid!" with pat in the back, no small talk either)</p>
<p>
This is one of the smartest things I've read on CC. Of course, it's also what I think, which is probably why I think it's such a good idea! I just think that parents know their kids -- we also have life experiences that enable us to understand the consequences of different choices. My son is academically very talented, but wasn't really focused on the college search until fall of senior year. If we had left it up to him, I don't think he'd have applied to the variety of schools and received the acceptances that he did. My concern for parents who leave it all up to the kids to decide is that the kids have fewer options in the spring, when they are more mature and have a better idea of what they want. I'm not saying that everyone has to have super-selective choices, but I think it's best to have a variety.</p>
<p>my parents dont' seem to care all that much and have left it up to me to decide where to apply. However, when it comes to deciding where i will acutaly attend I think they will play a much greater roll......They despise the idea of me going out of state ... and well, i love it lol. So we're at odds there. However, i'm sure when the time comes to decide where i'll be going to college we'll find a nice middle ground. We usually compremise well.</p>
<p>my parents have given me full reign not just for choosing colleges, but for pretty much everything. i know this would ussually spell disaster, but surprisingly enough, i somehow do everything they want me to do by myself. they somehow instilled their values in me from when i was very young. i think the earliest experience like this i can remember was when i was maybe 5 years old. my family is vegetarian, but no one is forced to be. we were at a dinner party at my aunts house. and i asked my mom if i could eat meat. she said go ahead. so i think i remember going over and just looking at this piece of chicken, and somehow i decided against eating it. my parents didnt force me to become vegetarian, they guided me and let me choose for myself. similerly, my parents never drink, and i never drink; my parents never smoked or used drugs, and i never smoked or used drugs. my parents worked hard and even though they have provided me with a thousand oppertunities to become lazy, i have followed their worth ethic and drive and have aimed to succeed all on my own accord. they never got mad if i got bad grades, they never even punished me if i did. they just let me see their example and i followed. i work hard in high school just for myself and not because my parents told me to. i suppose this doesnt work for everyone, but it worked for me. for my kids, im going to lead by example and hope they make the right decisions by themselves. </p>
<p>btw: if i ever did need help they were always there for me, so its not like they were totally out of the loop. also, im only a junior so i havnt gone through the college choosing experience yet.</p>
<p>-Do you let them have free reign as long as finances are not a problem or if they can get a scholarship?</p>
<p>Intitally they gave me free-rein of wherever I wanted to look at. When they realized that all of my chosen schools were over $35K, they suggested some financial safeties like the SUNY system and UR (with the County discount). I was okay with UR but not with SUNY as I knew that they would not fit me as well. Over time, they realized that I want small schools- but they came at a price. So they said fine, just apply wherever you want, and we'll see what happens in April with the finaid package. Also my father knew all along that we would not get fin-aid and wind up taking loans. So he was just more laid back and willing to do whatever it took to get me through college. All while my mother kept searching for a good college at a reasonable price, thinking that we'd get some aid.</p>
<p>-Do you let them go wherever they want no matter what?
Can't really answer this since I mainly wanted to stay in Northeast. But they did get a bit of scare when I looked into UMiami and Calfiornia schools. They said that it would be okay for me to be across the country only if the school was top-notch. My mom told me later that she wouldn't have wanted me to go to California unless I had gotten into Stanford.<br>
But if this question isn't for location, then I would say pretty much yes. They knew that I was smart enoough to choose a reputable college, not some lower-than-life college, since I was slightly concerned with brand-name. I don't think they had much opposition to anything on my list except for my mom on American University, and both of them on Hobart/William Smith Colleges. Otherwise, they approved everything on my final list.</p>
<p>-Do you insist on a major or college that is more likely to land them a job?<br>
No. I'm a history major and we all know that history majors wind up with random jobs. Also my mom was a history major and she doesn't even do anything relating to it today (in the investment sector of finances). But they did want a college with good job track. We didn't actually look at that part... All it really matter was that I would get liberal arts education that would make me a well-educated person.</p>
<p>-Do you insist on any requirements in a college that your child does not particularly agree with??
I don't think they had any requirements.</p>
<p>Terms of money- they said they would only pay for 4 years and no more. They did encourage me to look for scholarships- which I did win two of them.</p>
<p>I was actually more of at odds with my GC over colleges :)</p>