Penn + Music?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
1

<p>I have a couple of questions regarding this</p>

<p>i know on the common app there is a place for the arts supplement, i plan to fill that out, attach a music resume, etc. BUT...my question is...i'll probably be putting some of the same awards and stuff in the activity section of the Common App...is it ok if some of the things i put down wiill be repeats? does this make sense? </p>

<p>also, i know penn doesn't have a piano performance music dept. so, if i'm at conservatory level performance, will this still be helpful for me? as opposed to other ivies that do have music departments.</p>

<p>oh...and penn doesn't have like a repertoire requirement do they? like what composers, etc.</p>

2

<p>its okay if some of the awards are listed twice
in my opinion you should send anything that will make you stand out</p>

<p>i personally know someone who got into Penn mainly because he was a great great piano player, his other stats were subpar SAT <2000 etc</p>

<p>so send away</p>

3

<p>There are no repertoire requirements, but your CD should ideally represent the best you have to offer. A word of caution: Penn’s music program is just atrocious and I implore you to go elsewhere if you’re serious about music AT ALL. Ye be warned.</p>

4

<p>yea…haha i know! maybe that will be my hook?? i can be a helpful asset…haha…just kidding, but yea. wait, a CD? i thought on the common app you have to like upload your music to a website and then paste the website there. could someone explain?</p>

5

<p>

</p>

<p>That applies to music performance, of course (which Penn’s music department is really not about). For theory, composition, and musicology, however, Penn’s music department is one of the best in the country.</p>

6

<p>Take it from someone in the program: their theory and composition curricula are as dysfunctional as their performance program. Their musicology program is solid, though I don’t know what you could hope to understand about musicology without a strong foundation in theory.</p>

7

<p>heh, but in all honestly, do you think if they see like a good pianist applicant (ie: conservatory level), will they try to grab that person…as an effort to better their music program?</p>

8

<p>It will help, but the department (as most music departments) has little clout. Definitely send in a representative recording and your resume.</p>

9

<p>I have seen wayward trojan trash Penn’s music program repeatedly. On the one hand, I am convinced he knows what he is talking about. But, on the other hand, one of my kid’s best friends is a music major at Penn. He has been wildly enthusiastic about his classes in music history and composition so far, and his relationships with the faculty. He is a multi-instrumentalist who chose Penn over a number of conservatories. His parents are very music-centric, and they love the program, too. So all I can say is that opinions seem to differ.</p>

<p>As for the conservatory-quality pianist question: I think a high level of distinction in anything is a big plus in applying to Penn, but I doubt the music department has any discretionary slots that Admissions gives it, and if it does have slots they are probably used to make certain the orchestra has a full complement of less-popular instruments. Certainly the music faculty would evaluate any performance recording submitted. I imagine, however, that in the natural course of things Penn is never short of quality pianists, violinists, or flautists. Also, you should understand that local standards of what constitutes an extraordinary pianist are very, very high, since Penn is about a mile from one of the top conservatories in the world, and students there may take courses at Penn and are often involved in performance at Penn.</p>

10

<p>I have a quick question? Can students at Penn take courses at the top conservatory?</p>

11

<p>^ i think yes, (correct me if i’m wrong) students may take lessons at Curtis. And sometimes, Curtis students take classes from Penn (…?!)</p>

<p>some of you said send a CD? that would be separate from the Common App right? or should i strictly stay with the Common App, which asks for a URL link to samples of your playing. In other words, should I send both?</p>

12

<p>

Well, for what it’s worth, in the National Research Council (NRC) ranking of graduate music programs (from the 1990s and long overdue for an update, but still well respected), Penn’s program was ranked #7:</p>

<p>[NRC</a> Rankings in Each of 41 Areas](<a href=“http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc41.html#area8]NRC”>http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc41.html#area8)</p>

<p>Of course, YMMV (your mileage may vary). :)</p>

13

<p>I believe that, in theory, Penn students can take academic classes at Curtis if they are not offered at Penn. But there aren’t many academic classes at Curtis that are not offered at Penn, and few of those are likely to appeal to Penn students (or to be acceptable for major or distributional credit). The same deal applies to Curtis students, but of course there are many hundreds of courses at Penn that are not offered at Curtis. That said, I suspect that only a few of the Curtis students ever take classes at Penn. They are pretty busy kids.</p>

<p>Instrument instruction at Curtis is not open to Penn students. I don’t think there is anything like the Juilliard-Columbia joint degree program.</p>

<p>Curtis students do stuff like perform the works of Penn composition grad students, though. And they’re around generally (the ones who aren’t already international stars). A friend who graduated from Penn seven years ago, who was a fairly serious musician, often hung around Curtis and made several friends, one of whom became an apartment-mate.</p>

14

<p>This is typical from people who aren’t musicians, don’t go to Penn for music, and lack perspective to see the program for what it is. (Also, Curtis is great, but it is not the “top conservatory” of America. A different debate; I digress.) I don’t mean to have such a harsh tone, but I’ve worked extremely hard to get where I am as a cellist and musician and find it irritating when everyone and their mothers feel the need to pipe in with their meaningless two-cents. I speak from very real experience and a balanced, fair perspective having spent two years at a music school before coming to Penn. Anyone who is merely speculating from outside the department or typing hearsay only serves to confuse applicants. Let me settle this now:</p>

<p>You can take classes (e.g., orchestration, instrumental conducting for non-conducting majors) at Curtis if the class is not offered at Penn and if you’re approved by the Penn Music Dept. as well as the Curtis registrar. As far as studying with Curtis instrumental professors goes, I have never known it to be possible. I know of maybe two students at Penn who would be even marginally competent in such studios (and none who have the time to devote), so it’s not really an issue.</p>

<p>In regard to Penn’s ranking as a graduate music program, not only is it more than a decade out of date, but also most of the composition faculty who put Penn’s music department on the map in the first place (e.g., George Crumb, George Rochberg) are either dead or do not teach there at all. Such rankings are just nonsense, more so because we’re dealing with the apprenticeship of an art form, not an academic subject. (Theory and composition are not, by any stretch of the imagination and contrary to popular belief, purely academic subjects. Penn treats them as such, which is why the courses generally mislead students and fail ultimately to create any real foundation of basic musicianship/diatonic theory in anyone who has come up through the curriculum. My Theory IV class was just, forgive me, ■■■■■■■■. They were and are the epitome of Penn musicians: charlatans with almost no consummate knowledge or command of Western music, but possessing very typical Ivy League arrogance.)</p>

<p>That said, if you’re looking to do ethnomusicology, musicology, or music history, come to Penn for music by all means.</p>

<p>JHS: Who’s your kid’s friend? I probably know him. Some friends of mine too are enthusiastic about Penn’s music program, but only because they know of nothing else and frankly don’t have the command of either their instrument or Western music in general to expect anything more. I’d be happy to entertain a debate with someone else in the program on the forum, but secondhand testimonials aren’t helpful.</p>

15

<p>JHS: [Good] Flautists are in short supply at Penn and the ones in symphony are pretty mediocre.</p>