The graduation rates you are quoting are for students that stay at Berks, not that go on to do the 2+2 and graduate from UP campus. Half of ALL Penn State grads started at a commonwealth campus and did the 2+2, finishing at UP campus. Your degree just says Penn State. Not the commonwealth campus that you started at.
That said, from OOS, I would consider only Altoona, Erie or Harrisburg to be “worth it”. They are 4 year colleges in their own right. Altoona is a beautiful campus and it’s only 45 minutes from UP campus so students are able to go to the games and be involved in UP activities.
You can call and ask for reconsideration for DUS and summer. Summer program at UP is amazing. My daughter got in for fall for this past year and decided after her acceptance to go in the summer instead. Her older sister and brother did LEAP (Summer program) and loved it. It’s a great way to get acclimated to the large campus, get 6 credits under your belt and become comfortable with living away from home - all before 45,0000 undergrads descend on the campus in August. My daughter loved her summer experience and did not regret changing to a summer start one bit.
In Engineering and some of the other majors, starting at a smaller campus can be greatly beneficial. A “weed out” calculus class is much more difficult with 500 students in the class vs 40. Professors are more accessible as is outside help. My kids at UP have had a more difficult time accessing the resources because they are all over the place and the TA’s do a lot of the tutoring - and depending on the TA, that can be good or very bad. My son started at Altoona and loved it. He almost failed out his first semester at UP - the atmosphere is very different and he just didn’t know how to access the resources that were at his fingertips at Altoona. I’m glad to say that he did not and he’s graduated with good grades and is doing just fine. Everyone has their own path.
In Aerospace Engineering, I think there would be a huge benefit from starting at a commonwealth campus. I think the stats are higher for students who do and actually finish in engineering vs those who start at UP intending on engineering. That said, I don’t have the exact numbers in front of me.
If your daughter is set on UP, then call and ask for consideration to DUS (undecided) and possibly summer. If she’s willing to start at a commonwealth, ask to transfer her acceptance to Altoona, Erie or Harrisburg. She should be able to do that no problem.
Yes, thank you. We emailed them but so far haven’t heard anything about the waiting list or summer. They must be dealing with a lot of us.
We got Berks because we didn’t know much about Penn State and simply picked one by chance but it looks like we need to try Altoona instead. Or Harrisburg.
Grad rate at UP can’t be 87% for everyone regardless of where they start, when first year student retention rate at Berks is 75% and Altoona is 81% - pretty bad, honestly. Statistically impossible to get 87% after 4-5 years for all kids if more than 50% of all kids start at 2+2 and 20-25% of these 50 don’t come back the second year, let alone fourth… UP kids then have to be graduating at 100% and that isn’t true - first year retention rate is 93% for UP. I am getting less than 85% first year total retention for Penn State at large…
As explained above, there are a lot of reasons for the lower retention and graduation rates at the commonwealth campuses. There are more than 600,000 living PSU alumni so while it may not be true that each and every year, 50% of all graduates started at a commonwealth campus - overall, more than 50% of all Penn State graduates started at a commonwealth campus and it’s the most common path to a Penn State degree.
Honestly, graduation rates at the commonwealth campuses never really concerned me because I am so familiar with the system. But from out of state it may be more confusing. SOME of the commonwealth campuses run very similarly to a community college. One building, no dorms, etc… Others have top ranked degrees in their own right. All commonwealth campuses are not created equal. All of that being said, college is what you make it. You could be at a school with a 90% graduation rate and still not graduate if you don’t have the right attitude. Similarly true for a lower graduation rate. You can be successful, or not, almost anywhere just by the amount of work you are willing to put in.
I would think that would play into a matrix of decision criteria - and it sounds like convenience is important, so that would be in there. Cost certainly would be one. Instead of focusing solely on graduation rates, many prospective families focus on how many students complete their degree in 4 years? Because a 5th year adds $$$. And I don’t know those answers for Penn State, just throwing out some decision criteria.
Other things you might want to dig into:
internships? what % of students get internships in their field? what years do they get them?
what is career development overall?
full-time jobs? what is the placement rate in their field?
research (if this is something she is interested in). How does she get connected with a professor?
how much research $$$ are coming in for professors?
And I don’t know those answers - they might be in favor of Penn State, they might not be. I just know they are more important to me than solely graduation rates.
Did she apply to Purdue? I would think for aerospace, that would definitely be one mid-western school I would look at -
4-year or 5-year completion is relevant, no question, but first year retention rates at commonwealth campuses are a lot more critical for freshmen admitted into 2+2… Wouldn’t you agree that percentage making it through the first year shows support level and campus involvement into the lives of these kids?
Penn State campuses seem to lose 20-25% kids instead of 7% as Virginia Tech or Purdue or UP the first year… that’s incredible loss.
We got in touch with the admissions office but it looks like summer isn’t available since we didn’t apply for it, and transfer to UP would be known only in April and we would decide before that. Just waiting on 2/18 for EA at Virginia Tech, but I believe that 2+2 isn’t for us and isn’t for most kids, based on available statistics.
Honestly I think Penn needs to stop doing this because some parents may not look as closely as I did at this. Some toughness is great to teach but not at $50k a year.
And this is why Penn State may not be fit your kid. More kids from our HS go there than anywhere else and will take it anyway can.
A lot of kids can only afford to go to colleges close by - a lot of these Penn State campuses are where these kids go.
Also, some majors you must do a 2+2, which is why my S didn’t even apply.
I would never pay OOS to not be at University Park for 4 years.
2+2 is perfect for my daughter. We are OOS. She is from a small town that graduates 60 in the class and is majoring in Criminology. She is also taking in almost 60 credits and has been told that her 2 years at Altoona will probably only be one. It allows her to transition to college on campus and still be close to UP and is a little cheaper for the first year.
DS Got into Penn State. The portal was updated on Feb 4th but we got the email today (no idea why there was no earlier update).
Major BioEngineering
UWGPA 4/WGPA 4.7
SAT 1310
Lots of EC around community and volunteering
Good LoRs.
FAFSA also showed some scholarship (6k/year), not great.
This was his safety school.
Does anyone know if kids are having success (now in February) at being reconsidered for DUS for fall admit? Asking for son’s friend who didn’t know he could do that instead of applying to Smeal.
I will start by saying I think every school is a party school. I will also say that at every school you can find kids who don’t party.
That being said, my nephew said the freshmen dorms were gross because of people throwing up all over the bathrooms.
I heard the first few weeks of dorm living can be challenging.
“but I believe that 2+2 isn’t for us and isn’t for most kids, based on available statistics.”
It certainly seems like it is not for you or your family, but in no way is it not for “most kids”. Like I said before, more than 50% of all graduates at Penn State started in the 2+2 and a Penn State degree is globally recognized for its incredible value.
The graduation rates at UP campus INCLUDE those who started 2+2 and graduated from UP campus. The retention rates at the commonwealth campuses are irrelevant in my opinion if your child is doing the 2+2. The commonwealth campuses by their nature have students transferring BETWEEN Campuses (thus one campus loses its retention and another PSU campus gains a student), as well as the myriad of other considerations noted above in other posts.
Numbers don’t tell the whole story for everyone and are only as good as the understanding of the data sources. For your family, it’s not a good fit and that’s ok. More than OK! Penn State is not a good fit for everyone. Better to decide that now than after Freshman year. But to say that it’s not good for “most others” is insensitive to the MANY MANY thousands of students who start at a commonwealth campus and are very happy there. For many, whom UP would have eaten them up as Freshmen or who needed a smaller environment or who wanted lower tuition rates for two years, it was a literal KEY to their success.
Penn State isn’t for you, but we all wish you and your daughter the very best in her college search!
My daughter is a freshman at PSU. She isn’t a partier and is having a great time. There are lots and lots of clubs, activities, sporting events, shows, concerts, student run activities etc. for her and her friends to do. With a school this size, there are a lot of parties but there are a lot of other things to do as well. Students have choices.