Please learn from our very sad story,dont' think it can't happen to you.

Parents Forum
161

<p>"I have a concern about certain college students who are NOT getting bad grades- who in fact are getting top grades, working at paid internships and otherwise gaining acclaim- but who abuse alcohol and live on the edge. These young adults don't see that they have any problem, and it's hard to convince them that they do, because they are so high functioning. (Actually, there are many adults in the same situation) I don't have the answers."</p>

<p>yeah....i think at many top colleges this problem is much more frequent than the kid who flunks out. the kids suffer a ton of inner turmoil, but they manage to keep up appearances somehow. their bottoms are usually so-called "high bottoms" but i don't know that i'd call it that given the inner strife.</p>

162

<p>We don't know if our kids have an addictive personality or will get "snagged" by something like web surfing, channel surfing, shopping, spending, gambling. That is why I shudder and quickly walk past the "joke" items regarding many of those activities. Don't want to be any part of encouraging this sort of thing. They'll find it themselves, and I just pray that they will get through that part of the journey without getting stuck.</p>

<p>In the adult world, there are many, many folks out there who have problems and are living on the edge in terms of drugs, overspending, risky behavior. Nothing new about that. That is why in a sense, the OP though I know he/she doesn't feel that way now, may be getting somewhat of a break in that this particular issue is being addressed strongly now. The kid is smart kid, and is getting a powerful lesson about how addictions can get to a person. At this young age, it is not a disaster, taking some time off to address this issue. Maybe, just maybe, he'll learn that he has this weakness and learn techiniques to deal with it in the future. Unlike those who are getting by with their problems and will not learn to deal with them until a crisis arises. When that happens in adulthood, the stakes can be ever so much higher, fewer options and more people can be hurt. </p>

<p>I had a secretary who was a hard and heavy partyer. She kept her private life out of her office work and was an excellent worker, the best. How she did it, I don't know. When she married and had kids, she did become responsible and stop the weekend risk taking. Sometimes people get through this part of their lives. But sometimes things happen that require an intervention.</p>

163

<p>Anothermom, taking away the pacifier from a baby is easy in that he cannot get himself another. With adults, and our kids in college are adults, can easily replace whatever we take away. Also with computer in such widespread use, video games easily can be uploaded. They have games on the friggin' cell phones these days!</p>

164

<p>seiclan, that sounds like my sons to a T. On the weekends, they have been known to sit upstairs with friends and play video games from sun-up to sun-down. But, during the week, they are totally on top of their work and sports committments.</p>

<p>When my oldest went off to college back in 2005, he decided not to take a gaming system because he was worried that he wouldn't be able to control the amount of time he spent on it. He also was into "role playing games" like Halo and WOW. I was surprised that he knew himself so well as to make that decision. By the second year, he had developed the time management skills of the college grind, so he began gaming again, and it hasn't been an issue.</p>

<p>My younger sons are more into games like NCAA or Madden and they seem to be able to "put the controller down" more easily. Perhaps that there is a beginning and a conclusion makes it easier to move on to another activity, whereas the role playing games just go on and on.</p>

165

<p>I did not want my kids to bring a tv to school, never mind the gaming system. I also did not want their computers to have the visual card that would permit them to turn it into a super gaming computer. But had that been something that they wanted, it would not have been difficult for them to do. So far, I've been fortunate in that they found other things of interest when they went off on their own. Unfortunate in that some of those things are far riskier than video games. Video games are no where near the worst temptations out there.</p>

166

<p>"I have a concern about certain college students who are NOT getting bad grades- who in fact are getting top grades, working at paid internships and otherwise gaining acclaim- but who abuse alcohol and live on the edge. These young adults don't see that they have any problem, and it's hard to convince them that they do, because they are so high functioning. (Actually, there are many adults in the same situation) I don't have the answers."</p>

<p>This problem is far, far more extensive than a lot of people realize. I know plenty of students who have serious issues with alcohol and drugs, but manage to still earn high grades and do extracurriculars, so nobody (especially them) thinks it's a problem. There are also people out there with addictions to online gaming who are superficially fine, but in reality waste much of their talent and free time gaming the night away. Even if the addiction isn't enough to destroy the rest of their lives, I just wonder how much productivity and genius potential is frittered away by addictions of all kinds...</p>

167

<p>ok I confess. My entire family plays World of Warcraft..aka World of Warcrack. I can certainly see why it has the nickname.</p>

<p>Now, before you judge 2 adults who have been playing computer games for 2 decades, hear me out.</p>

<p>I clearly understand how the mmorpg can be addictive. Hopefully, this explanation will help you to understand how people get drawn in.</p>

<p>You start out as a little person with little goals to achieve. You get gratification early and quickly. You are successful. Along the way you make friends and they join you in your quests. Now we have cooperative goals. We celebrate our wins together.</p>

<p>As the game progresses, the quests become more challenging. You have friends who can solve these things together, ie a guild. You also have VoIP capability. You can hear them!! This brings the e-friendship to a new level. Makes the cartoon on the screen real. You also have web sites where people may post pictures. </p>

<p>Now as your guild moves towards goals together, you literally have a new family. You can communicate with them in-game, via IM and other electronic methods. As this is happening, you are spending more and more time on the computer, because the quests are getting more complex and more time consuming ( I am talking instances that take 24-40 people working cooperatively over long periods of time hours...and maybe days).</p>

<p>Your new friends are the toons in the game. That is your life. That whole concept is scary. Now you are spending time preparing for the challenges with your friends you actually doing the quests. The virtual world is quite real. There are also other things that come into play that a psychologist could explain with being anonymous, but that's another story.</p>

<p>It's a cycle that is hard to break. It also very self-gratifying. All the goals you make in-game are achievable in a relatively short period of time.</p>

<p>Just this before Thanksgiving, a new release came out on Thursday. By Saturday, people had literally stayed on non-stop to beat the game. And the game announced it for the enitre server ... Orcguy has attained the acheivement of Level 80!! (how's that for e-celebrity)This is the level of ...addiction? I don't know what to call it, but it exists, and I haven't the slightest clue as to how you can realistically pull someone away, without them wanting to go away.</p>

<p>My family? We play together, not every day, and when we get tired we log out!!!</p>

168

<p>DocT, That is the scary part, isn't it? Why are addicts unable to walk away and who becomes addicted? Earlier in this thread I recommended Al Anon because I too see the relationship with drugs and alcohol.</p>

<p>I do not blame those who create the substance that a person becomes addicted too although I understand why the OP feels that anger right now. I've seen people whose loved ones go into rehab for alcohol can blame the makers of their loved ones preferred drink or even the bartender who typically serves it.</p>

169

<p>You know, though I do not blame the makers of alcohol, I do shake my head at the marketing that is out there for drinks. It is really hard to avoid. Tough when you are dealing with a young person who is impressionable. It is more the culture than the product that bothers me. </p>

<p>As for video games, I really don't blame the games or the manufacturers. They are out there, yes, but they are pricey enough that keeping them out of the house is not a big deal, in my opinion. And that they are everywhere such as on computers, cell phones, watches, makes it difficult to escape. But so are books, sketching, and other things that can be a distraction. My one son got into a heap of trouble for getting lost in a good book when he should have been elsewhere. Any activity that becomes harmful is a problem, even good ones.</p>

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<p>cptofthehouse, I agree with you about the marketing. The alcohol industry spends 3 billions dollars a year in marketing. I would support a crack down on that, similar to tobacco ads. </p>

<p>The big problem, of course, with the concept of blaming other people or an industry is that the addict has no control over that. Accepting the responsbility is scary but it's very powerful as it empowers the individual to get control over their life again inspite of the temptations. I do not think anything else has had the impact in my life that accepting that the only person whose behavior I can control is mine and that my ability to make choices is not dependent on enviroment.</p>

171

<p>I have to question the idea of keeping videogames out of the house. First, when I look at videogames, I think of console games, not PC games. Those are computer games, not videogames.</p>

<p>I've played videogames pretty much since I was 3 years old. They can be valuable for teaching a child problem solving skills. I never played the little kid games, but rather jumped into stuff like My childhood was pretty much spanned by late NES, SNES, and N64. Videogames make you think. Adults who have been playing since they were kids still have immense trouble solving the problems in the game, so if a 6 year old is solving these problems in a game, it has to be doing something to develop their problem solving skills. </p>

<p>A good example of a game that is not a kiddy game, that is child suitable would be Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts that recently came out for XBOX 360. This game stimulates immense thinking, that can only benefit a child.</p>

<p>Sports games also help in a few ways. They can familiarize a child with the rules of the game. When I stepped into team basketball for the first time, I knew all the rules for the most part (obviously there is some league specific rules for younger children that are different than the pros), and Bulls vs. Blazers and the NBA Playoffs for SNES certainly helped in this. Second, it can help them develop a love for their sport. If they enjoy playing it in the videogame, that will spur an overall interest in the sport, and they will want to go out and emulate it outside on the basketball hoop outside. Third, it helps familiarize children with the league and players.</p>

<p>I also think that depriving kids of videogames is taking away part of what being a kid is. Videogames are a great social activity. That's why they have 4 controller slots, so multiple people can play at once. That's one of the reason why videogames are so popular in male dorms. I know that my summers would often include going and playing a game of 21 in the morning, then going to play NBA Jam at my friends house, then maybe playing more 21, then watching some tv, etc. It's just part of being a kid.</p>

<p>If a kid has been playing videogames since they were young, they will have time management regarding fitting videogames in appropriately down well.</p>

172

<p>Hmmm... have you used this essay before?</p>

173

<p>Wow Silvermoonlock, thanks for the explanation of the game. I can see how that would be addicting, like pushing the pleasure button over and over again everytime you achieve a goal! I think it only becomes a problem when you start living more in the computer world than in your own...</p>

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<p>cptofthehouse, when I mentioned taking away the pacifier, I meant to convey that the technique will not work for those who are more independent than babies. I am not sure by your comment that this was made clear. That is why the idea of taking away something from a college student or adult or even an older teen will not work, they will get another one. Some of our young posters seem to think that you can just tell someone to stop, and they will. </p>

<p>On another idea, I don't really understand why some people think it makes a difference as to whether being overly involved with a video game is an "addiction" in terms of how to overcome it. Maybe the medical diagnosis is important for insurance reimbursement or similar matters, but to overcome the problem, it is not the name of it that will really matter.</p>

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<p>A lot of success on Math subject tests and SATs is based on how fast you can do a problem, but more importantly, how fast you can figure out what the problem is testing.</p>

<p>My d's friends, who are lazy gamers, are getting knock out SAT scores - just becuase they are fast</p>

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<p>"This problem is far, far more extensive than a lot of people realize. I know plenty of students who have serious issues with alcohol and drugs, but manage to still earn high grades and do extracurriculars, so nobody (especially them) thinks it's a problem. There are also people out there with addictions to online gaming who are superficially fine, but in reality waste much of their talent and free time gaming the night away. Even if the addiction isn't enough to destroy the rest of their lives, I just wonder how much productivity and genius potential is frittered away by addictions of all kinds..."</p>

<p>often it's trying to fulfill that potential (when has one fulfilled his/her potential?....at top schools, it's an ever-escalating arms race...) that causes the psychological distress that leads to addiction.</p>

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<p>Wow, thats pretty pathetic. Im sorry but video game addicition isnt a disease. Start blaming yourself and not video games for not taking a more active role in your sons life.</p>

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<p>I have pretty much kept computer games out of the house. It does cut down on the opportunities and temptations for the kids. They have some really great games they play on their systems, which don't compare to the stuff they can get on line since they don't have much or anything downloaded on their computers. We only have the one computer that has any games downloaded. This way it isn't as much of a temptation when they are on the computer for school work. </p>

<p>It isn't foolproof. They can websurf, they can download secretly, they can find games that are free and on line. As I said before, there games on cell phones, and pre loaded on the computer. But they tend to be picky about what they like, and seem to spend their time on the true high tech games, they have and find the second line stuff not satisfactory. I know I made sure that my freshman in college did not have a lot of game capacity on his laptop when he was in high school. They don't need to be downloading movies and games on their computers. </p>

<p>But once they are away from home, it gets to be more difficult. There is no way you can monitor their lives. You just hope that what you have patterned and preached has sunk in. Any detours from that path, you just hope that they find the right way. It is a bit easier when they are younger, to treat these problems. Once they have set in for years, it becomes much harder. I am optimistic that the OP's son will get through this and learn much from it. He may end up much better off than kids who are on the edge with problems with computer games and such, but just did not get into enough grief to have to address the problem.</p>

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<p>I will not blame myself,miktau and many many professionals disagree with you,many now do believe this addiction or form of it IS a disease and must be treated accordingly. Admittedly this is a whole new world for me, one I did not care to know about, but the reality is it is now my reality and we are forced to deal head on. Make no mistake, however I do not blame myself, any more than any other parent can blame themselves for buying a sports ball their kid loves, a favorite doll,etc....way back when, when we got an XBOX for the kids for Christmas because let's face it every kid was getting one.......we never in our wildest dreams thought it could come to this.
When we did realize this was a serious problem, we took it away time and time again and made buying a new one nearly impossible. When he went off to college, despite our daily mantra about the 'poison" it meant for my son, and how he was forbidden to buy another, he took it upon himself to get a part time job and earn enough to go and buy a used one..........OUT OF OUR CONTROL.
That said, the blame game won't change anything, I am mentally and emotionally distraught and do look at this web site for support and comfort, if you don't' have anything positive or proactive to say, please refrain from commenting to me directly please. Believe me I have beaten myself up far more than anyone else is capable.
Good night.</p>

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<p>It's as much of an addiction as any. Internet poker is right there with it. The kids who are addicted to these games are often addicted to substances too and switch off addictions their whole lives unfortunately if not treated. From what I've read it should be treated as an addiction in seeking help.</p>