<p>^^^cross-posted w/ paying3...perfect metaphor!!</p>
<p>The scaffolding metaphor is a great example. I think back to the transition from following my toddler up the ladder of the sliding board step by step, to following far enough up to make sure s/he was seated stably at the top, to only waiting at the bottom to "catch," and then to sitting uninvolved on the park bench chatting with the other moms.</p>
<p>There are definitely some parents who are still helicoptering in the college years because they didn't do an efficient job earlier on....like the parents I know who, as I write this, are helping their children write high school term papers. And their "need" to do that stems from over-helping the kid in middle school, and that originated from not teaching them the skills in elementary school.</p>
<p>But, children do mature at different rates and there are certainly parents who hover because they really do have to.</p>
<p>This is no surprise to me. The problem I always see is far too little parental involvement. I see so many kids missing out on opportunities or being tossed to the wayside by administrators and teachers precisely because the parents aren't involved. I'd rather see people being told they need to pull back a bit than the cases where parents are mostly oblivious.</p>
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A parent should be like a libarary for a college student.. an experience resource to tap when questions arise from everything from laundry to boyfriends/girlfriends...
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<p>This, I think, is a good sentiment. I mean, I've graduated from college and am financially independent, but I still go to my dad (an actuary and VP of a well-known financial services firm) for financial advice, help with understanding confusing financial documents, and things like that. I figure, I might as well take advantage of his knowledge. :)</p>
<p>I definitely agree that there is a difference between communicating with your child and helicoptering. My Dad & I weren't particularly close when I was younger, but I always went to him for advice when I knew he'd know best. My D does the same. She doesn't always take the advice, but she asks! I text & talk to her often ... not because she "needs" it (or because I "need" it!), but because we like to keep in contact. I don't ask about grades, although she does offer info from time to time. When she has a roommate issue or another problem, I offer advice only when asked ... and even then, I make sure never to "tell" her what to do. I try to get her to generate possible solutions, and I offer possible alternatives as appropriate. I cannot imagine intervening with her profs or anything like that.</p>
<p>Here is how I view a helicopter parent: My neighbor recently told me about her daughter, a HS senior, who has been on the receiving end of some "mean girls" action lately. My neighbor knew something was wrong, so she gently pushed her daughter to tell her what was bothering her. Neighbor listened, brainstormed, encouraged ... she was a good parent ... that's not helicoptering. However, neighbor told me about neighbor 2, whose daughter had been "mean girled" by the same girls months earlier. Neighbor 2 called the mothers of each of the "mean girls." THAT is helicoptering!!</p>
<p>I always appreciate my parents hovering a bit during VERY stressful times (like... now with my graduate school applications) because they set things straight when I blow things out of proportion. They definitely do NOT talk to anyone at my school but they do more advising for me and expect that I take care of all the talking with the professors and deans. </p>
<p>Believe it, even college students need a taste of reality check from outside the college bubble where everyone tends to be a little too close. That's where parents come in. Because all of our friends are in college too...</p>
<p>There is a clear bright red line. What is too much? Coming to college to do the kids laundry every week. Yes it happens. Or calling the kid every day to see if their homework is done. Or having the kid come home every weekend to do their laundry and "own them for 72 hours."</p>
<p>What is not too much? Being there for relationship issues and emotional needs in an advisory function, but making sure the advice is not making them dependent....but stronger and independent. Good advice is often the hardest advice. Or periodically reminding them that staying up too late too often, even if its for studying has long term negative effects upon their mental and physical well being.....and is actually counterproductive on academic performance.</p>
<p>Being there to remind them they are loved for who they are, not what the parents want them to become. Reminding them that its normal to go through a lot of change in college and to just ride the waves as best they can. Reminding them that grades are important but not a definition of who they are as individuals. </p>
<p>And beng there for humorous times as well...to laugh together at each other. </p>
<p>I did that this weekend. Parents weekend and we all had a hoot over my own foibles and obsessions.....as well as the kids foibles and obsessions.</p>
<p>But the message was clear: I am a parent, not your best friend.....yes, I can be a close friend....but when it comes right down to it...I am a parent and will always behave like a parent. I am not 18 or 25. I am somewhere between 40 and 60. I will not condone bad behavior or immoral behavior. If I think your friends in college are "unhelpful" I will likely tell you that and why, in private. </p>
<p>So its okay to helicopter....and often helicopters can move vertically up to much higher elevations.....</p>
<p>Kids between 18-22 are still kids. They are not full fledged adults. They need to be taught adult rules and CONSEQUENCES....but not by a sink or swim mentality. An ounce of prevention......</p>
<p>and one more point...I think many parents are helicoptering a lot more than they admit. :-></p>
<p>I've always thought that helicoptering should apply specifically to parents who view it as their task to CHANGE the (elementary school, high school, university) environment to better suit their child -- rather than those who seek to help their child to adapt to the environment. </p>
<p>As a former high school teacher and current university prof, what I see as dangerous are the parents who come in with guns blazing making demands like:
1. My child is a 'visual learner' and therefore the teacher needs to change his teaching style to better accomodate my child
2. My child has an allergy to certain foods, so therefore the food in the cafeteria for 1800 kids needs to be changed
3. My child has a hard time with a certain teacher, so therefore the entire high school (or university) schedule needs to be changed so he won't have any classes with this professor
4. My child is bored and needs more of a challenge so therefore the curriculum for the ENTIRE SCHOOL DISTRICT (which includes 75,000 kids) needs to be redrawn, to accomodate his needs
5. My child doesn't like certain snacks so therefore the "snack policy" for the entire soccer league (500 kids) needs to be changed</p>
<p>I wish I could say I'm making up these examples but I'm not. Our job is frequently to teach our kids how to adapt, not to go out and regularly remake the terrain. That's the main difference that I see.</p>
<p>Momzie, I would agree with your judgement that all of the above are pretty outrageous things to ask for, with the exception of the following:
"1. My child is a 'visual learner' and therefore the teacher needs to change his teaching style to better accomodate my child"
I don't think you can equate asking for help for 1 student who does learn differently to demanding a change of curriculum for an entire school district.
There ARE students who ARE predominantly visual learners, sometimes as a result of Auditory Processing Disorder, which is a disablity, and sometimes just because they are hard wired that way. My son, a highly gifted learner who is at the University of Chicago, is one. Would you ask a deaf student to listen to tapes, because that's the only way you want to teach a lesson? I think and hope not. There are proven ways to help this type of student learn that are not that much of an accomodation.</p>
<p>Momzie, I think your distinction is important. A true helicopter parent, as opposed to just an involved and caring parent, is one who is hovering with an agenda in mind. Their goal is to ensure, via their own actions and interventions, that their child is always fairly treated (if not given preferential treatment), does well and receives every honor and privilege (even if that means other deserving kids get none), and never has to be uncomfortable in any way. From that goal follows the attitude you've seen. The world has to change for my kid because my kid is, naturally, the one who is the most important. A parent can seek something for their child and be an advocate, such as in the case of a learning disability, without having that attitude.</p>
<p>As for your #4, that has happened in our district. I never understood why our school district should be paying to bus kids from elementary school to the high school to take advanced math, or why the high school should turn into a college. So the bright kids are being well served, the special ed kids are being adequately served, but the ordinary student is falling through the cracks. If you're not in honors or AP classes, there's a sense that the school really doesn't care about you.</p>
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I never understood why our school district should be paying to bus kids from elementary school to the high school to take advanced math
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<p>To be fair, this seems a lot more reasonable than changing the entire curriculum for 75,000 students so that a few can benefit.</p>
<p>jessiehl, point well-taken, but I'm just not convinced a public school should be getting into the business of private school education. If your child is so smart that s/he needs to take second level AP Physics, or differential equations as a 7th grader or needs to go to the local Ivy League school to take an advanced language class (actual cases in our district) despite a very competitive high school curriculum, then maybe private school or home-schooling is the way to go. A public school should be providing a thorough and efficient education to the masses which teaches the mandated high school curriculum. Help for special needs, and honor and AP classes are sufficient. Where does it say that the taxpaper should pay for private tutoring for college-level middle schoolers or advanced (third or fourth year) college level classes for high school students?</p>
<p>Edit: I should state that the overall curriculum has, IMO, already been amped up several times to accommodate all the helicoptered kids who are constantly tutored on the side.</p>
<p><<a parent="" should="" be="" like="" a="" libarary="" for="" college="" student..="" an="" experience="" resource="" to="" tap="" when="" questions="" arise="" from="" everything="" laundry="" boyfriends="" girlfriends...="">></a></p><a parent="" should="" be="" like="" a="" libarary="" for="" college="" student..="" an="" experience="" resource="" to="" tap="" when="" questions="" arise="" from="" everything="" laundry="" boyfriends="" girlfriends...="">
<p>I so totally agree. My son knows he can call for any reason. Today's call was "do you know how to get the pages to print in reverse order in Word". He already figured it out before I had a chance to speak.</p>
<p>I think some of the 'helicoptoring' or ('badgering' as my son would put it) that I did for the last 18 years must have sunk in. He told me I'd be proud of him because he put all his papers in folders for each class. Now that might not seem like much to most people, but my son is notorious for not be organized. I've told him a million times that is not a good thing. FINALLY, it's sinking in.</p>
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<p>The term helicopter parent was invented by a childless college prez who does not like dealing with parents. I know this for a fact. </p>
<p>So take it with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>I think parents involved with their children are a great plus; parents as co-students, not so much.</p>
<p>If S calls up to talk about his Lolita paper (just did) and then sends paper after it has been handed in so I can read and we can talk about it, that's cool. He asked me nothing about what to say or if his ideas were okay in advance. He loved what he came up with and wanted to share ideas.</p>
<p>D would have my head if I talked to anyone about anything.</p>
<p>When I tried to intervene at S's school regarding necessary sibling verification form for financial aid (S kept "forgetting", and I consider FA my territory, not his) school said they required their students to deal with this themselves. NO PARENTS ALLOWED TO REQUEST FORMS. I thought this was way cool; that we were partners in kicking his lordship in the butt, and lo and behold! he did provide the form. Hallelujah!</p>
<p>GFG, my district sends a private van to pick up kids with asthma from their driveways so they don't have to walk up the steps of a regular school bus, thereby making them too tired for the soccer, tennis, etc. they participate in. Why is that more acceptable than busing a kid to HS for calculus? The abuses of the public school system of parents claiming some sort of disability are rampant; I really can't blame parents for trying to get accomodations for a kid who needs curricular enrichment (within the framework of the existing infrastructure) given the millions of dollars being spent on individualized learning, physical accomodations, etc. for every kid whose parent is savvy enough to get an IEP.</p>
<p>A kid in our school system has a fulltime shadow. Guess why? Peanut allergy. 10 years ago the kid would have been sent to school with an epi-pen, an extra in the principals office, and an extra in the teachers desk. Now we're paying for a full time aid to make sure that nobody comes near the kid who had a Reese's cup over the weekend.</p>
<p>Sorry to hijack but I think the solution in your district sounds fair... your kid gets bussed to another school for special needs.</p>
<p>"GFG, my district sends a private van to pick up kids with asthma from their driveways so they don't have to walk up the steps of a regular school bus, thereby making them too tired for the soccer, tennis, etc. they participate in. Why is that more acceptable than busing a kid to HS for calculus?"</p>
<p>It's not. It sounds ridiculous to me. If they are able to play sports, how can they not be able to walk up steps? If, however, they are physically disabled or wheel-chair bound then the law requires safe, appropriate transportation to be provided. I have no problem with that because the goal is to get the kid safely to school receive a regular education. The problem I have is with pushy parents getting the public school to pay for a designer education just for their own kid so he can be ever so much better than every one else.</p>
<p>Btw, my child goes to the regular neighborhood school on the regular bus and has no private tutors or shadows or whatever. She does get small group support for a small part of the day and I assist her a lot at home. But if she did receive private tutoring, at least the goal would be for her to master the basic school curriculum so she could be an employable, contributing member of society. An 11-year old can wait until he gets to high school to learn college material without becoming a drain on society.</p>
<p>Suppose Mrs. X has a toddler who is very bright. She is convinced that when he grows up he may cure cancer or broker lasting peace in the Middle East. Should the school district create a special program for him and begin educating him at age 2 or 3 to help him achieve his full potential?</p>
<p>Where does the public duty end? Next, we'll be bussing 7 and 8 year olds to the high school or university.</p>
<p>Opie, </p>
<p>Do you really (really, really) think your daughter missed a chance for the Rhodes Scholarship because of admin miscues? </p>
<p>Is it that your daughter did not know to apply? Or that the college forgot to invite her to apply?</p>
<p>(pssst . nmd, read Opie's post again. I think he was referring to his friend's D. )</p>