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<p>I dated frat boys all through college and was a little sister in one.<<</p>
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<p>Lizshup -</p>
<p>I REALLY hope that being a "little sister" to a frat meant somethng different at your your school from what it does at the places I'm familiar with. At the university where I attended grad school it had a definite negative connotation - what might politely be termed a fallen woman. </p>
<p>It apparently still means this today. A college kid who worked in my lab part-time a couple of years ago was president of his frat. I asked him what a frat's "little sister" was. He thought for a moment and said "brood mare". </p>
<p>What were the duties of a little sister in your day and age?</p>
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"For example, one frat at Sokkermon's school was decertified for repeated brawls on campus." - Quote from InterestedDad</p>
<p>Thanks, ID., but I am pretty sure I never ever mentioned "my school". I really do not take claim to my son's school, and admit I don't know much about the frats there. I do know intuitively that they all should not be judged based on a single house. I will say it again - son is a bright boy and will reasearch this decision and make it on his own. You obviously have your opinion, and he will form his own. He is an athlete, and never drank in high school and doesn't plan to take it up now. Imagine that!
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Thats great, but it reminds me of those who decide they are going to be abstintent until marriage, but put themselves in situations where it is likely to be more of a challenge than they anticipated. Part of being adult and responsible is learning to anticipate problems. While you may choose to attend a school that has a party reputation, have a strategy to avoid that if that is a concern, don't just think that you are "above" that behavior.</p>
<p>My daughter doesn't drink much, but she does drink occasionally. I don't have a problem with that, after all she is 22 and she doesn't attend a school where bingeing on anything is common.
I would be more concerned if she was attending a school where drinking parties were a primary social function as at many larger universities including Duke.
Duke to its credit has recognized the problem and is supporting student paramedics who patrol the larger parties on the lookout for students in need of medical attention.
However I am wondering how well this works. While I think there is definitely a need, is it possible that students who are interested in getting as drunk as fast as possible are more reckless about it knowing that they have medical backup?
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A54768-2002Apr15¬Found=true%5B/url%5D">http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A54768-2002Apr15¬Found=true</a></p>
<p>"I would be more concerned if she was attending a school where drinking parties were a primary social function as at many larger universities including Duke."</p>
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It apparently still means this today. A college kid who worked in my lab part-time a couple of years ago was president of his frat. I asked him what a frat's "little sister" was. He thought for a moment and said "brood mare".
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<p>But isn't a brood mare supposed to give birth?
Perhaps he meant a "groupie".
I had in my early 20's friends that were in a rock band. They were a very popular rock band, ( OMG late 70's early 80's big hair leather pants!) but I am quite adamant that I was not a groupie!. Really. Well, yes, I didn't know them until they became popular but then they attended a different high school than I did. I didn't sleep with them! :eek:
( well only one- and it was just once but I had a thing for drummers)</p>
<p>Coureur, I worked with a woman who'd graduated from Tulane in the late 80's......she proudly said that she was a "little sister" at one of the frat houses.....In that I'm a women's college grad, I asked her, curiously, what that meant as it sounded entirely pejorative to me. She explained that there were a group of them who "hung around" with the frat guys.....like some sort of honorary ?? girl pal?? or something...nothing sexual from what I could gather....but I can't imagine calling myself a "little" anything in relation to a frat boy.....oops.....my 70's feminism is coming out again..call 911!</p>
<p>Coureur,No that wasn't what a little sister was where I was. It tended to be girlfriends of members or just girls that they got along with well. I was dating a guy very seriously at the time and was there a lot. Our two houses did a musical variety show together and my boyfriend and I were the writer/directors.</p>
<p>That's pretty scary. I never would have posted that if I knew about that definition for it. Maybe the midwest is slow to catch up on the stuff that goes on elsewhere. Iowa is a pretty conservative place. </p>
<p>And just to clarify, I don't consider myself Pro-greek. I had a positive experience and I know many people who would say the same. I don't push for anyone to join one and I know there are problems and more so with fraternities. I only started posting because the comments were overwhelmingly negative. The poster wanted both perspectives. The reality is that they still have a presence and there are parents who are wrestling with what is right for their sons and daughters. Both realities exist and Xiggi's friend is testament to that.</p>
<p>that sounds good, what am I going to make for dinner?
I only mentioned Duke because it is a school that is making a concious effort to have a safe campus. The first part of dealing with any problem is recognizing it is a problem.
I am extra sensitive towards schools, especially southern schools that seem to have a more casual attitude towards alcohol than I have in the northwest. ( We don't have drive through liquor stores or "go" cups for example)
As I posted last year, a high school classmate of my daughters was murdered after he left a drinking party off campus at his reputable Southern university. Out of the top 25 cities with high numbers of alcohol related deaths, this state has three of them. Someone who thinks that the atmosphere on campus won't affect them, may be more influenced than they realize.
I don't drink much, but I am more likely to drink around others. It is pretty difficult even as a 47 year old adult married to someone in recovery, not to have something to appear" sociable".</p>
<p>"When I see the definition of binge drinking from the Harvard study, 5 drinks over in indeterminate amount of time, I wouldn't classify it is necessarily an example of aberrant behavior. So, you can state that study as proof of your point, but to me, it proves nothing."</p>
<p>Funding, this argument has been debunked a couple of times in THIS thread. The indereminate amount of time is a short amount of time. </p>
<p>It does not surprise me that it proves nothing to you. It requires a certain amount of reading comprehension aptitude.</p>
<p>Xiggi, your death sentence for frats and student drinking is one of the most hysterical comments I have ever read here. It's the "I know what is good for you" crowd that makes some of us puke. Freedom to screw up and learn may be messy but it beats the tyranny of the know it all do-gooders.</p>
<p>Even though I do drink and enjoy it, I always say that people need to be responsible in doing so, by knowing their limit and saying No when they do not want to drink any more. For example, in my 21st birthday, people wanted me to do 21 shots to celebrate, but I know that would be too much for me so I just stopped at 15 because I knew that was enough for me, and I had a great time anyway. I know others that refuse to do it all together, which is fine because that is being responsible. </p>
<p>The beginning of each school year, I always see new freshman get so drunk because they are away from home. They go overboard and are not drinking responsible. Yeah, its great to have a good time, but do it within your bounds. That is not a Greek system issue it is a societal issue.</p>
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<p>so I just stopped at 15 because I knew that was enough for me</p>
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<p>If you weight 175 pounds and drank 15 shots in less than 4 hours, had a blood alcohol level of 0.32% -- four times the legal limit for driving and on the threshold of a fatal level.</p>
<p>A 150 pound student would have a B.A.C. of approximately .40% which is considered 50/50 odds of survival.</p>
<p>Where were your frat "brothers" who are supposed to be "looking out for you"? It is good to hear that you can have a "great time" when you "only" drink 22 ounces of whiskey shots. Some people feel like they have to get drunk to have fun!</p>
<p>well, i did it over about 8 hours and knew when to stop..I have never ever drank so much that I black out or passed out, I wouldnt do that becuase it is stupid.</p>
<p>Would you consider two shots per hour for eight hours to consitute "binge" drinking by any standard?</p>
<p>It doesn't sound like you had any idea when to stop. You are still looking at BAC levels between .25% and .35% depending on your weight. The legal limit (which is quite impaired) is 0.08%.</p>
<p>Barrons, I am afraid that that you are a tad confused when your wrote, "I know what is good for you" crowd that makes some of us puke." I would expect that excessive drinking is what makes you puke. </p>
<p>As far as "knowing what is good for you", you obviously fail to understand what I wrote in this thread, as I did not address the impact of self-inflicted problems as much as the impact of predatory acts.</p>
<p>Xiggi, as much as you hate it, drinking is one of the oldest rituals in human history. It's not going to stop from one day to the next - its actually never going to stop. If you plan on condemning fraternities mainly for drinking, then you have a battle you are never going to win. Drinking lives not only in frats, college dorms, bars, clubs, parties (I could go on forever here), it is a reality that is rampant in every scene everywhere. Is this a good thing? Well, healthwise it isn't, but it is a venue for a good time. There's no need to doubt that - at least 4,000 years of history have already proven it in my favor. Basically, I'm just saying that you should be more open to the REALITY that is drinking amongst all ethnic, cultural, and yes, age groups.</p>
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For example, in my 21st birthday, people wanted me to do 21 shots to celebrate
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Its stuff like this that really concerns me.
Why in godsname would anyone even consider suggesting such a thing?
I don't remember what I did for my own 21st birthday. My peak drinking years actually were slowing down quite a bit when I became "legal", and I probably just went out to dinner and had a drink.
My daughter didn't have a drink for several months after she turned 21, and her friends wouldn't dream of suggesting that she drink to get drunk, or what is worse drink enough to have alcohol poisoning.
It is the pressure to drink as a spectator/participant sport that is very unsettling and dangerous. Underestimating the effect alcohol has on someone that perhaps has had a few too many glasses of wine and not enough dinner is one thing, but drinking shots one after another, beer funnels or anything that involves taking in alcohol faster than you can drink it normally is beyond reckless.</p>
<p>Crackah, if I was not clear enough in my multiple posts, I do not demonize the mere fact of drinking. There is world of difference between social, occasional, responsible drinking and drinking until you puke or lose control. I am sure that you know and understand the difference. Do not make the mistake to believe that I am on a crusade and spend my time proselytizing everyone around me about the dangers of drinking. I live in a metroplex that is divided by the Rio Grande, and the night scene in this part of the world is quite famous. Hordes of people cross the border to find cheap alcohol and looser regulations. Like any kid my age, I spent time in the places where liquor -lots of it- is sold. It is also not hard to see what constitutes responsible behavior and what does not. </p>
<p>You are correct to point out that people have been drinking for centuries. However, I believe that the extent of the current destructive behavior is a recent phenomenom. I guess that I could accept it as a "fait accompli" and move on. In many ways, that is easier and more popular!</p>
<p>Wow, they should rename this "the thread that doesn't stop." Obviously people are going to have varying opinions about frats and sororities, different individual marginal costs and marginal benefits analysis. In the end it's up to the person, but the general view of these organizations is that they need to change to promote the safety of members and potential members. Maybe less dependence on alcohol, stringent anti-hazing college enforcement, etc.</p>