Public Ivy Leagues

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>Berkeley is the only public to be consistently ranked with the elite privates…this is because no other public has as high quality of faculty in breadth and depth.</p>

[FutureVpFinance]

<p>

Berkeley is the only public to be consistently ranked with the elite privates…this is because no other public has as high quality of faculty in breadth and depth.

</p>

<p>test run. Hopefully it works!</p>

<p>YESSSSSSSSSSSS!</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>Next lesson is to quote like this:</p>

<p>

@FutureVpFinance

YESSSSSSSSS!

</p>

<p>:)</p>

[JWT86]

<p>

@zapfino

^ As I said, Texas is too regional. Also, despite some very strong departments, its strengths across the range of disciplines is too uneven, compared to the very top publics. In the NRC rankings, Texas has 8 departments in the top 10 and 19 departments in the top 20. Compare this to Penn State (which nobody mentions) which as 31 departments in the top 10 and 41 in the top 20. Also, compare this to Illinois (which everybody mentions), which has 15 departments in the top 10 and 30 in the top 20.

</p>

<p>By your own criteria, then, how do you include UVA, UNC, and William and Mary? W&M isn’t a research university, so can’t be directly compared, but UT’s faculty and departments are much stronger than UVA and UNC - both in depth and breadth. And by all the surveys of international prestige (e.g., THES, AWRU) UT has a stronger reputation. How can it be considered more regional, when it has a stronger global reputation?</p>

<p>I also find it hard to understand how you consider UT to be uneven - especially compared to UVA and UNC - when it performs quite well in departmental and professional school rankings across the board. Others have posted composite rankings before that show very few schools - public or private -have the academic breadth and depth of UT.</p>

[andrewt787]

<p>

^ As I said, Texas is too regional. Also, despite some very strong departments, its strengths across the range of disciplines is too uneven, compared to the very top publics. In the NRC rankings, Texas has 8 departments in the top 10 and 19 departments in the top 20. Compare this to Penn State (which nobody mentions) which as 31 departments in the top 10 and 41 in the top 20. Also, compare this to Illinois (which everybody mentions), which has 15 departments in the top 10 and 30 in the top 20.

ummm… no. UT has WAY more than just 8 departments in the top 10 and lol at Penn State having 31.</p>

<p>Here’s the NRC Rankings: [NRC</a> Rankings in each of the 41 Areas](<a href=“http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc41indiv.html]NRC”>NRC Rankings in Each of 41 Areas)</p>

<p>Anyways, a study done by our friends at Texas A&M did a thorough analysis of the NRC Rankings. </p>

<p>[NRC</a> Rankings](<a href=“http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc1.html]NRC”>NRC Rankings)</p>

<p>A few very intersting things…</p>

<p>Methodology 2.c. says

The average of all 41 scores. To rank high by this measure, an institution must be very strong in both breadth and depth; the top ten not surprisingly being Stanford, Berkeley, Michigan, Cornell, Wisconsin, UCLA, Texas, Columbia, Washington, and Illinois.

They also had an intersting way of classifying universities.

Very broad and deep private universities (Stanford, Columbia, and Penn, e.g.). </p>

<p>Narrow but deep private universities (MIT and Cal Tech, e.g.). </p>

<p>Very broad and deep non-land grant public universities (Berkeley Michigan, UCLA, and Texas, e.g.). </p>

<p>Very broad and deep land grant public universities (Wisconsin, Illinois, and Minnesota, e.g.). Type IV universities typically reside in states where they are the only major research university in the state. </p>

<p>Narrow but deep land grant public universities (Purdue, UC Davis, e.g.).

Here are the rankings of the Public Universities Listed by Average Nonzero Rating in the 41 Areas…

1 UC Berkeley<br>
2 UC San Diego<br>
3 Michigan<br>
4 UCLA<br>
5 Wisconsin<br>
6 Texas<br>
7 Washington<br>
8 Illinois<br>
9 Minnesota<br>
10 North Carolina

</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>^ Those are the 1995 NRC rankings. Newer rankings are available, but they’re more complicated to assess.</p>

[zapfino]

<p>^^ ^By the criteria I listed, it’s not simply a matter of faculty and dept. strength (usually grad rankings). UNC, UVA, and W&M are included as public Ivies because of their selectivity; their smaller size (which is perceived as a correlate of undergraduate educational quality, compared to larger public universities); their appeal outside their regions; and, their social prestige. I would agree that Virginia is relatively weak in some key departments and that Texas is stronger in many areas. Historically, however, UVA has been considered a public Ivy and Texas has not. At the undergrad level, Texas has limited appeal outside its region. While it’s great for many graduate fields and Austin is a great “college town”, the state of Texas and its flagship university simply lack the cachet of those other schools.
^ ^You’re not looking at the most recent NRC rankings. You’re looking at the 1995 rankings.</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>Thanks UCBChemEGrad!!! lol~</p>

<p>@Zapfino,</p>

<p>First off, please be aware that my Top-10 Comprehensive Research Public academic list was for the** year 2020**, the end of this decade - goal set by tOSU!!! Further, I did not mention PSU due to the fact that it is due for updated follow-up, which will be August this year pending on the new USNWR ranking. Specifically, how the scandal and the riot on national TV affect its PA score, thereby the overall ranking. In short, I am not certain of other long term effect at this point, because its fundraising has since stalled based on my reading. Let’s just wait and See…</p>

<p>

Ohio State certainly has improved, but it simply doesn’t have the same academic and social cachet as the others and it’s too regional in its appeal.

</p>

<p>Currently, TOSU’s 50% ACT is 27-31 for 2012 as selectivity continues to rise. Its Honors College student body is identical to W&M in terms of headcount (roughly 6,000 students enroll); however, with higher selectivity of 50% ACT at 30-35. W&M’s 50% ACT is at 29-33. </p>

<p>Furthermore, I certainly doubt that liberal arts focus W&M has more social cachet than Ohio State both nationally & internationally. Currently, Ohio State - Columbus student pool continues to diversity with 73% in-state as compared to say U. of Texas - Austin which is still 90% in-state. Lastly, not only TOSU is very globalized with a handful of alumni chapters & international offices overseas, but it is also Top-5 in the nation in terms of # of International Students Enrolled. </p>

<p>Above all, I really do not wish to offend anyone with my post(s)… If I did, please accept my sincere apology. Once again, please make a note that my 2020 Top-10 Public Ivies are for my own amusement, me and me only.</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>

^ Those are the 1995 NRC rankings. Newer rankings are available, but they’re more complicated to assess.

</p>

<p>I patiently await next NRC rankings publication ( Year 2020~2025 ), which should have TOSU listed in the Top-5 overall. :p</p>

[zapfino]

<p>^^ Sparkeye, I always appreciate your well-informed advocacy on behalf of Ohio State. </p>

<p>I’m strongly of the opinion that our flagship public universities are a national treasure and that it is possible for a top student at a public university to obtain an education across a broad range of disciplines that is as good as or better than what he/she can obtain at an elite private university. </p>

<p>My comment on W&M has more to do with its social prestige and perceptions of its quality and less to do with actual academic quality compared to Ohio State. Nonetheless, we might continue to have different perceptions about the social prestige of OSU vs. W&M.</p>

<p>As for PSU, I’m more concerned about the long-term effects of proposed cuts for public universities in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, it’s our public universities that suffer in the present economic and political climate. The elite private universities with their heavy public subsidies will continue to prosper.</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>

Sparkeye, I always appreciate your well-informed advocacy on behalf of Ohio State.

</p>

<p>Zapfino, you are too kind… I am nothing more than an Ohio State alum who had contracted ‘buckeye fever’ since my days over at Columbus.</p>

<p>

My comment on W&M has more to do with its social prestige and perceptions of its quality and less to do with actual academic quality compared to Ohio State.

</p>

<p>I certainly understand! :)</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>“I am nothing more than an Ohio State alum who had contracted ‘buckeye fever’ since my days over at Columbus.”</p>

<p>Try some aspirin. :-)</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>

Try some aspirin.

</p>

<p>Unfortunately, it has no cure!! lol…</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>*Geographic Diversity<a href=“Ohio%20State%20University%20-%20Columbus”>/I</a></p>

<p>Ohio State enrolls students from every state and territory. States with the highest enrollment:</p>

<h1>500+: Pennsylvania, Illinois, New York, California, Michigan</h1>

<h1>300 – 499: Texas, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia</h1>

<h1>100 – 299: Florida, Indiana, Georgia, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Utah, Minnesota, Missouri, Arizona, Tennessee, Connecticut</h1>

<h1>50 – 99: West Virginia, Washington, Colorado, South Carolina, Kansas</h1>

<hr>

<p>P.S. With this post, I would also like to announce my long break til the football season perhaps… Take care, everyone!! Enjoy the summer!! :)</p>

[getServed]

<p>In my honest opinion, the only public colleges that should be considered public ivies are the ones that rank on this list:</p>

<p><url><a href=“http://www.thebestcolleges.org/rankings/top-50/”>http://www.thebestcolleges.org/rankings/top-50/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/url&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I want to give any college counseling professional who doesn’t use these rankings a good roasting over some choice coals. Bring some Jack Daniels sauce while your at it. Why? It uses ranking criteria that are the most pertinent to rising college freshmen that I have EVER seen, and trust me, that’s not much of an accomplishment as the standards are very low. The criteria also seem to strike a perfect balance between ivy league, independent privates, publics, and liberal arts. For instance, unlike US News, CWM is at 5th place and Swarthmore clenches the 3rd spot. Similarly, vastly underrated schools like TAMU and Georgia Tech are 26th and 28th, respectively. It doesn’t give loads of preference to Ivies either. In fact, Cornell is way behind its New England brethren at #31. It also doesn’t show an extreme preference for UC schools and doesn’t discount the importance of agriculture (TAMU, Davis) and engineering (GA Tech, Purdue). The criteria are: Economic value, quality of life, academic quality, & student satisfaction. While I kind of find the quality of life weighting to be too heavy, the ranking still comes across a pertinent and accessible. Probably the best quality of the list is that it takes into account starting salaries which should be a huge factor on any ranking, period.</p>

<p>Ordered from highest to lowest rank, the public ivies are:
5 William & Mary
12 North Carolina
15 Virginia
21 Michigan
23 Berkeley
26 Texas A&M
27 UC Davis
28 Georgia Tech
35 UWash
36 Florida
37 UT Austin
38 Purdue
41 UCLA
43 Illinois</p>

[andrewt787]

<p>Berkeley
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
UNC
Texas
Georgia Tech
William and Mary
Illinois
Washington</p>

[NJMom23]

<p>ucbalumnus Cornell is not a “Public Ivy” it is simply an Ivy League School. It is a private university. A land grant institution is one that is given land and funding by the state and in return has to offer programs such as agriculture, industrial relations, etc. to benefit the people of the state- it comes from the industrial revolution. Because of the state funding, tuition at land grant colleges (ILR, Cals and Human Ecology) is lower for NY residents. This does not affect the Coll of Engineering, CAS, Architecture, or the Hotel School).</p>

[barrons]

<p>UCB
Michigan
Wisconsin
UCLA
UCSD
Illinois
UNC
Uva
Wash
Texas</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>I agree barrons. Wisconsin has to included in that list!</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>^ Appropriately positioned above UCLA, too. ;)</p>