<p>
[quote]
URMs usually are considered to be those who are African American-- with at least one parent who was born in the U.S., and therefore considered victimized by the U.S.'s legacy of oppression toward black citizens.
[/quote]
Thats a politically incorrect but nonetheless true way to put it.</p>
<p>doesn't anyone ever get tired of this issue?</p>
<p>AA programs like Michigan = Bad</p>
<p>AA programs like Stanford = Good</p>
<p>AA isn't reparations, it's promoting diversity and benefitting groups that are often discriminated against. Whether or not that is the type of diversity YOU value is personal and should come into play when you decide where you choose to apply.</p>
<p>Even if you are a black immigrant, once you become american you are african american and the world will treat you as such. Targeting multi-generational african americans is the job of outreach programs. </p>
<p>Urms are often preferred over other students because admitting them is a step towards the overarching goal of the betterment of those groups.</p>
<p>We admit that the racial education and income gap is a huge problem. The AA that the supreme court upholds gives universities the right to make the closing of that gap an educational goal by upholding diversity, and act on that goal in a specific, case by case, nonsystematic way.</p>
<p>Public schools often have a problem with that because of the volume of students they recieve. </p>
<p>Socioeconomic AA alone will not do enough to acheive that specific goal. its not to the point enough. period. </p>
<p>If you don't agree with the mission of a university you don't attend there, you don't give them your tuition. But the university has every right to have that mission.</p>
<p>It's nothing to get all upset over, if it bothers you so much then don't go to that kind of college.</p>
<p>To the OP, if your dad is black, but i suspect you're a troll, then put black if you want to. And if you get in and you want to demean your own race and claim that you only got in because you're black, well thats up to you too. </p>
<p>And if you are black and you dont want preference, then just don't check the race box. Then if people say you only got in because of your race, they'll be 100% wrong.</p>
<p>I honestly think that 99% of AA opponents don't really feel strongly about the issue at all, and maybe they shouldn't.</p>
<p>^^ well said</p>
<p>
[quote]
Even if you are a black immigrant, once you become american you are african american and the world will treat you as such.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not quite.</p>
<p>Research by Dr. Douglas Massey, a Princeton sociologist who frequently authors papers on affirmative action, showed that blacks at Ivy League schools are significantly more likely to be immigrants than native-born black Americans.</p>
<p>He proposed three explanations for this.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Admissions officers purposefully choose black immigrants over native-born blacks.</p></li>
<li><p>Admissions officers choose them not out of design but because they are more likely to have higher grades and test scores than their native-born peers.</p></li>
<li><p>Admissions officers subconsciously admit more black immigrants because they perceive them as more “likable” than native-born blacks (a form of modern racism).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
[quote]
It's nothing to get all upset over, if it bothers you so much then don't go to that kind of college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I disagree. This statement could easily have been used to dismiss the struggles of the Civil Rights Movement. “It’s [segregated facilities] to get all upset over, if it bothers you so much then don’t [use those facilities].”</p>
<p>"It's nothing to get all upset over, if it bothers you so much then don't go to that kind of college. "</p>
<p>if the US is a monarchy, it's nothing to get all upset over, if it bothers you so much then go imigrate to somewhere else.</p>
<p>fabrizio, thanks for the article, although those same findings were discussed a few pages ago...</p>
<p>i have a question along similar lines: I'm half african-american (my father) and half thai (mother), so considering how colleges seek diversity, would it be in my favor to mark multi-racial or just african-american?</p>
<p>Fabrizio this is how the author summed up the article:
"Our bottom-line conclusion is that admissions officers don't seem to be intentionally selecting immigrant origin kids," Massey said. "Rather, they are selecting African Americans or black Americans who are very well qualified."</p>
<p>Not this:
"Admissions officers purposefully choose black immigrants over native-born blacks."
Please use your words carefully. The author even siad that many admissions offficers were surprised at the results. Stating that they choose immigrant black over native blacks is ridiculous.</p>
<p>click4rm, Thai and black. Cool! Interesting combination. I think that you should be completely honest and explain your situation under the multicultural section.</p>
<p>"Admissions officers subconsciously admit more black immigrants because they perceive them as more “likable” than native-born blacks (a form of modern racism)".
When does the author mention "modern racism'"? That makes no sense!</p>
<p>It does not matter if admission officers can tell the difference between Africans and African Americans. They are educated people and when they look at an applicants name of course they're going to know that it is foreign. But for ordinary people on the street, black is black. And it is a fact. </p>
<p>I live in Baltimore, where Africans and Blacks coexist. If I walk into Nordstrom do you think the sales clerk is automatically going to know that I am Nigerian just by looking at me? No she is not. Just as I would not be able to tell A Chinese person from a Korean by looks. The sales clerk will see me as a black person. </p>
<p>A few years ago a Nigerian man was shot like 17 times by the cops because they claimed he was reaching in his pocket for a gun. Another case of police brutality against Blacks. His skin color was black and they couldn't tell he was Nigerian because if they could, according to your articles, they would have said, "I'm sorry sir, sorry to bother you. We thought you were just an ordinary Black person, but of course now we can see with our eyes that you are an African do-gooder." No that's not how life in America is. </p>
<p>Look at Obama, everyone calls him the future first Black president. They hardly ever say that Obama is African and he is, his ancestors are not Black Americans, unless his white mother had some. People just see that he has dark skin, so his is just Black. Black is Black in America and everywhere else in the world. There are cultural characteristics that differentiate us because of the different areas we are from, but physically we are the same. White people came to our towns too and mated with our women so we have white blood sometimes just like Black Americans. </p>
<p>Africans have also faced a lot of discrimination from white people. The fact that people here are not attesting to this shows the lack of knowledge we Black people, immigrants and Americans alike, know of our homeland. South Africa is a great commercialized example. koolmaria I know there wasn't a problem with lynchings in Nigeria, but it did happen in other parts of Africa. And that's just historical racism that occured in Africa. You see all the mayhem that's Africa nowadays? Well that is all thanks to the white imperialists that reaped Africa and threw it away. Most of Africa's problems stem from imperialism. I am not going to compare the plight of Black Americans and the plight of Africans, but I am also not going to forget the latter. </p>
<p>So koolmaria is right, black is black. And in America racism will be directed to both of us. </p>
<p>In terms of the OP's question: It seems that you are an Indian with an Indian father who was born in East Africa, the time the British sent them over there for infrastructure. Am I right? If this is true, you, yourself are not African,, but your father can claim this. That's like me saying that since my mother was born in China that I am Chinese, even though I am Black and and was born in America. </p>
<p>The half Thai half Black person, you can put Black or multi-racial or whatever you like. For people like you, these kind of questions are the most discriminating because they fail to fully define who you truly are. Whatever you most identify yourself with you should put down and maybe explain your confusion in an application essay because they would like that. It would give the admins a deeper look into you. In America, anyway, once your black you never go back, I mean we all view Mariah Carey as Black even though she looks clearly like a white woman. Plus in some states whatever your mother is, that's what you are. </p>
<p>And I really don't like the idea of Africans being the only ones to benefit from AA because that trivializes the hard work I put into my schoolwork. I work hard to achieve in America and I do not appreciate people telling me that I am taking the success that I do not deserve because my ancestors were not slaves. I think the problem exists in the Black-American community. If there are not a lot of them in colleges, then doesn't that mean we need to work towards getting them into college and not blame the immigrants. Opportunity is there for Black people, it's very hard to find in some places, but it is there and we need to make it more attainable to the Black community instead of talking about it and playing the Blame game.</p>
<p>
I don't claim Africa as my homeland, and I know many African Americans who feel the same way.
No one said Africans were the only ones to benefit from AA. [Supposedly] Hispanic people benefit, rich African Americans benefit, Native Americans benefit...</p>
<p>Did I say that second quote? I don't remember. </p>
<p>But whether you want to deny it or not hotpiece, your roots are in Africa. You are not from Asia, or Europe. It is not beneficial to you to say that you are not, and there is nothing to be ashamed of. No one comes from America, it is a country made up of immigrants. Black Americans are always trying to disclaim Africa and then they wonder why Africans do not like them so much. Maybe it's because you all are embarrassed by us? Being at Harvard, I am confident that you will receive enough education to know that it is a pretty ignorant thing to say that you have no ties to Africa.</p>
<p>oh ok I see what you're saying with the second quote. I was saying that it is unfair to say that Africans benefit most from the AA made for Black Americans</p>
<p>
Okay, first of all, I never said that I have no ties to Africa. I just said that I don't claim Africa as my homeland. So, my comment was not at all "ignorant." I know that hundreds of years ago, one of my ancestors was African, but other than that I don't know a damn thing about my African roots. I don't know even know what country my ancestors were from.</p>
<p>African Americans are not embarrassed or ashamed by Africa. But it stopped being my homeland when my ancestors left on that slave ship. How am I supposed to claim a country who obviously didn't claim my ancestors? Africans sold us into slavery, and now I'm supposed to feel this deep connection to the continent. </p>
<p>Here is the definition of homeland:
I don't have a long history or deep cultural association with Africa. And I don't share a national identity with other Africans. America is where I have a known history spanning more than 400 hundreds years, America is the country with which I have a deep cultural connection (hell my great-great-great grandfather helped build this country), African Americans are who I share a national identity with. America is my homeland.</p>
<p>Please people are always saying Africans were the ones that sold the slaves. That's shows how much white education has brainwashed you all. Please look into histry of West Africa and know that it was not as simple as that. </p>
<p>No ones homeland is America because no one had a national identity that began in America because no one originated from America. So from the definition you gave America cannot be your homeland. Africa shapes the identity of Africans and it's Diaspora.</p>
<p>
<p> [quote=Trackbabi] No ones homeland is America because no one had a national identity that began in America because no one originated from America. So from the definition you gave America cannot be your homeland. Africa shapes the identity of Africans and it's Diaspora.
African Americans national identity DID began in America. When my ancestors got to this country, they were stripped of their language, their music, basically their cultural identity. Slave owners then replaced these things with a new cultural identity. Thus, our national identity was formed here.</p>
<p>I didn't deny that Africans sold the slaves, I said that it is not as simple as that. That statement is just as ignorant as saying the Jewish people killed Jesus. There's a lot more that went into the slave trade than some greedy Africans selling people. A lot of different people were sold in the slave trade even royalty so I doubt it was just as easy as handing people over for money. Europeans were pretty cruel in their methods of African colonization and the slave trade as well. If you would like to know more, read about Africa and the slave trade that is part of your heritage.</p>
<p>And no your African identity still exists in Black American culture. Slave spirituals have many African motifs. The way slaves dealt with Christianity is reminiscent of traditional African religions. Slave owners did not strip away the identity of their slaves, do not discredit your ancestors that much. They were a lot smarter than that and were able to retain a lot of their heritage. Even the way Black American dance has African roots. Look at New Orleans, lots of African culture, Puerto Rico, Haiti, Trinidad, Barbados, and many other Caribbean countries. African culture did not automatically melt away from the slaves the second they stepped on American soil.</p>
<p>
Trust me, I know my heritage. And, quite frankly, I don't care how or why they sold us, all that matters is that they did. So, why am I supposed to feel a connection or loyalty to Africa?</p>
<p>
Even if there are remnants of African culture within the greater African American culture, African Americans have a distinct culture and cultural identity from Africans. And, I have never and will never discredit my ancestors. Yes they were smart (which is why so many succeeded in escaping and staging rebellions). But trust, the white slave owner took away much of their culture. Just because we are vaguely connected to African doesn't mean we share a cultural identity with Africa. Like I said before, African Americans have a distinct culture and cultural identity from Africans. Yes, there are some similarities, but we are still two very different cultures. And that is simply the product of 400 years of separation.</p>
<p>Start feeling that connection, sista, because there is nowhere else that you can connect to. And Black Americans do have a distinct culture that differs from the distinct cultures of Africans but they do have many similarities. You can not deny that. It is where you came from and it will always be, so let go of that anger you seem to harbor and embrace the fact. To know where you're going you have to know where you came from, like they say.</p>
<p>
But that's the thing, TrackBabi, I am the product of an American upbringing and ancestry and I don't connect to Africa. I don't know where I came from in Africa. I don't know what country my ancestors were from, I don't know what tribe they belonged to. And, I don't really harbor any anger against Africa as a continent or against Africans. I'm just stating simple facts.</p>
<p>It has been a sort of trend of late, for many African Americans to go to Africa, searching for their roots, searching for comfort in a (supposed) shared cultural identity, searching for acceptance along racial lines. However, when they get to some random country in Africa (because very few besides Oprah and Isaiah Washington have the economic resources to seriously look into what country they are truly from), they do not receive the warm welcome they were expecting. They don't find their roots, for Africa is a very different place today than it was 400 years ago, they find that they have little in common with Africans besides their race and they find that race is not the omnipotent uniter that they thought it was. This is a sad reality for many African Americans: Africa was once our home, but is no longer.</p>
<p>So..this seems to be the big URM discussion topic so I'll post a question I have...</p>
<p>I'm half Filipino and half White. Would I be considered a URM? And what do I put for my race on the applications?</p>