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Why is that sad?</p>
<p>^So many seem to suggest that many 18 year olds are moved by loftier things.</p>
<p>If cost is a factor for you, if the financial advantages of the merit school are a factor for you… why shouldn’t it be for him?</p>
<p>I don’t see any issue with that. </p>
<p>A lot of things factor into college choice - the location, the “fit”, whether the right major is available, the cost. </p>
<p>It would be kind of absurd to choose a school that doesn’t offer the major or majors which a student contemplates. Other than that, the relative importance of the other factors will vary according to family circumstances and student/family preferences. I don’t think it is “loftier” to weigh location over cost, or “fit” over cost. Nor crass to weigh cost over other factors.</p>
<p>^That </p>
<p>and </p>
<p>"but recognize that a 19-year old really cannot grasp what imminent retirement may mean and the trade-offs in college spending vs retirement saving; (2) give the kid some skin in the game incentive-wise. Where the merit $$ may be attractive to you but immaterial to him, go ahead and make it material to him. "</p>
<p>was very helpful; thanks!</p>
<p>totally agree with jmmom.
Cost, these days can, and probably should be the deciding factor, if all other deciding factors are essentially equal- programs all good, he would probably be happy at any school, etc, etc. A LOT of merit money i.e $75,0000+, should tip the balance if the college offering it is not a pit, but is a good fit. “prestige” is immaterial when it negatively impacts the parents future economic peace of mind.</p>
<p>^ Agree that cost should always be a factor when the parents are still funding retirement and paying a mortgage. If the full-pay school is much more successful at graduating students and helping its graduates get jobs, then it might be worth it. But if this is a case of relatively comparable schools, and your senior has fallen in love with the full-pay school, then I think cost should factor into the decision.</p>
<p>I do know a family that offered their son a car if he chose the school that offered him a large merit package. They came out ahead, since the amount they saved equaled far more than the cost of the car, and he was happy. He ended up at Drexel, did very well there, graduated last year, and is now employed in an interesting job. </p>
<p>Hey, I’m just bummed Willamette isn’t on the final list, 'cause I remember you on the Willamette board! But it sounds as if your son has a group of good possibilities and it’s now just the decision that’s hard.</p>
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<p>This is a great post and an interesting question. A point of clarification, however: the bolded part is ambiguous. Are you saying that he’s not a super student, but that he has worked hard and demonstrated that? Or are you saying that he’s not a super student and has not worked hard? My answer would vary depending on that.</p>
<p>Here’s what we would do: In the case of a student who is not working very hard, we would suggest that he take some time off until he’s ready for school. We would not fund college without being able to provide a student. 
In the case of a hard working (but average) student, we’d be looking at match schools only, and basing our decision heavily on finances.</p>
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<p>But circumstances matter to the way input is presented. </p>
<p>From your posts it seems that you are worried that your son is leaning toward a school that is not the top one on your preference list – but your primary objections aren’t so clear. Is it cost? Is it a sense that this particular school is not the best fit? Or something else?</p>
<p>For me, honesty always worked with my kids. If the issue is money, then say so. If it’s something else – then try to figure out in your own mind what that is… and let your son know your opinion in a non-confrontational way, expressed at an appropriate time for discussion.</p>
<p>When in doubt, we made the old list of Pros & Cons. Sometimes parent’s pros/cons were different from kid’s, but it was a good exercise for clarifying thinking and starting a discussion.</p>
<p>I had the same initial response a mafool - Because they won’t listen. But they do when they can.</p>
<p>We told d1 she could attend college at my employer (tuition remission) or a nearby college that gave her tuition exchange. We would pay her room, board, and fees. She could pay her books and personal expenses from summer earnings, and she could graduate without debt. She could also attend her first choice college under the same deal. Dad and I would pay room, board, fees, BUT the balance of tuition, after merit, would be her baby and she would be taking out a loan. First choice college went to the bottom of the heap really quickly. </p>
<p>But I think the choice was so easy for d1 because she has worked. She knows how hard it is to earn money. Her summer job is close to home. She thinks she’ll drag out her bike so she won’t have to buy gas. She found facing thousands of dollars in loans pretty daunting. </p>
<p>Our kids will listen to us if they can grasp the concepts of what we’re asking. Lots of kids don’t “get” the idea of money. We can tell them, show them, but until they’ve earnied it and watched it go away on things that are not so fun, they don’t truly understand. I think the same holds true for issues like fit. They don’t see what we see. Part of that might be their immature little brains, but if they have no experience with the giant, red-flag issues, they may not see them as problems.</p>
<p>I’ve had sort of the opposite situation with D1: she wants more input from me than I want to give. </p>
<p>Three years ago, when deciding between two schools for undergrad, she said to me “I just want someone to tell me where I should go”. Uh-uh, no way, mom and dad are not making this decision. I helped her talk throught the pros/cons and she eventually made the decision on her own (or maybe a friend or her sister told her what to do – but it wasn’t me).</p>
<p>Just last week she called me and wanted me to tell her whether or not she should go to graduate school. Same deal – I’m not making that decision. Graduate school was not part of the original “plan”, and D1 is a big planner. So I basically helped her see that she has been taking extra courses and such to keep her options open, and the payoff for all that extra work is the ability to change her mind at this point. So while I didn’t tell her whether or not to pursue graduate school, I did give her “permission” to change her mind.</p>
<p>I think that letting the kids make their own choices is important. As parents it is our job to make sure the options are acceptable. For instance, when my girls were very young they were allowed to choose what to wear – the catch being I gave them two outfits to select from. When my D’s were choosing their college, they got to select among the many options that 1) made sense for their intended educational goals and 2) were financially feasible.</p>
<p>I recommend a careful thorough talk on college as an investment. Anyone still paying college loans after at least 21 yrs after college has put a serious dent in their lifestyle due to these debts. If a person needs to be approaching 50 before he pays off his school loans, then one must question the financial wisdom of such a debt. More than 1/2 of his working life paid a financial penalty from his school choice. For some, the joy of their work makes it worth it. But for others, who may have hoped college degree would bring them a better lifestyle must be terribly disappointed. Every month a payment goes to college debt is that much less discretionary income. Not that 1 group is better than another; just that student MUST know what camp he falls in so he can make a sound choice. Joy of his chosen profession? Or the financial rewards his profession can bring? The graduating debt is a big factor there.
I also recommend talk with student before final school selection so student knows any parental money is a gift, not an obligation. Should student be expected to invest in his own future- or is it entirely up to parents 100% ?
Further, about any conditions that come with the gift. gpa? dropping classes? yrs in school? No arrest record? total $ value of gift? etc etc. Not fair to impose conditions AFTER student is in school, or after an unexpected disappointment</p>
<p>^^ very timely post. Today’s NYTimes has an article abut the long term consequences of college debt.
<a href=“College Loans Weigh Heavier on Graduates - The New York Times”>College Loans Weigh Heavier on Graduates - The New York Times;
<p>If the issue is a big school versus a small school, it may be that the student is ready for a change. I can certainly see the attraction for a student in moving from a class of 67 where everyone knows you name (and your business) to a larger school where there are more options and more annonymity.</p>
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<p>Yes, but the schools on his list are in the 5,000-6,000 student range, a huge increase from the school he’s at now. Any of those schools will be very large in comparison, and by no means will he know all the kids.</p>
<p>My D had to decide between 5 schools, 4 with varying degrees of merit aid, 1 with none. She was really struggling with the decision. We had told her from the beginning that she could attend any school, regardless of cost, but it would require sacrifice and challenges for the high-end, full-pay ones.</p>
<p>Once she got in to all, she made her own Pro and Con list, and I made her a dorky spread sheet with every relevant fact I could think of (size, male-female ratio, teacher-student ratio, most popular majors, location, tuition, issues in getting to campus, weather, etc etc.). The very last line was “Financial Impact.” Because of wonderful grandparents, she has some assets in her name that will contribute toward college (and because this is in her name, we can’t get financial aid). So if there’s money left in the college fund when she graduates, it will be legally hers.</p>
<p>She says she chose her school because it’s the one she felt most at home at. But she was also mature enough to understand the financial ramifications. She chose the one that will leave her upon graduation with her own money in the bank, which she can use to help with a first apartment, a car, or a start on grad school. The no-aid-at-all, super-expensive school would have left her with a fairly substantial loan to repay. The middle ones would have been a break-even. </p>
<p>This basically was an incentive, like another poster suggested above. Worth considering.</p>
<p>^^We took a similar approach and created a “decision matrix” that outlined various factors for S2 to consider. Factors were weighted according to importance, so merit aid, tuition, etc. and faculty:student ratio were weighted heavier, while D1 vs D2 sports and social factors were weighted less. DH & I brainstormed about everything that we & S2 thought was important in college. We came up with 18-20 factors.</p>
<p>Then we turned the decision over to him. He wants to major in business, so we told him, “This is a $100,000 business decision. You will have to justify whatever decision you make.” He didn’t agree with all the factors we had listed & felt that the weighting was incorrect on some, but it was a starting point. He spent a week researching the schools & their programs. On April 29 he announced a surprise decision. It wasn’t the school that I thought he would choose, but it was the one I had hoped he would choose. I was also surprised at the mature logic underlying his decision. Best of all, it was HIS decision (so it cannot be held against me), and so far, it has proven to be a good one.</p>
<p>This has been SO helpful, and I like to think in a gerneral way that can apply to many. I get that our situation has it’s own specifics, and one that I have not mentioned will probably get me in the most trouble here. </p>
<p>We like a LOT of things about the no merit school. Not as big as some CSU’s on the list, but big enough to provide the diversity and the extra activities that we think are worth paying for. </p>
<p>But…</p>
<p>Part of the problem is choice of major at this school, vs choice of major at all the others. This no merit school has a GREAT program in the major son applied for, but after “The Event”, I think we all realized this was not the field of study he had in mind. We are scrambling to figure out if he could change schools/majors, then we would all be happier. </p>
<p>The school as investment thing, and our still paying school loans is relevant, becuase we thought school loans were a good investment for US ( well at least dad; I joined the military to fiance my education), as we both went to medical school, and paying loans for that at farily decent rates has not really been a problem. Our kids, OTOH, have not had to deal with money issues much, and are choosing majors that will not provide the “lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.” This will not bother D at all, but I worry son is going to have issues trying to live frugally.I know he will eventually adjust to his choices</p>
<p>Is this were the flaming starts?</p>
<p>Aslo he is a GOOD ( but not CC) student, getting better every year, going from a 2.2 GPA as an early sophmore, to a 4.0 by end of junior year. . Took his first AP’s this senior year. He is well loved, a four year varity athlete, elected student council in charge of fun things at rallys, and two time editor. ADHD with behavior problems since he could walk, but wonderful young man. He doe not seem sure about what he wants to do.</p>
<p>Can you tell how much I love this boy?</p>
<p>I thought the post was about telling my seniors–in my case, my aged in-laws–what to do. I can’t do that, either, despite their increasingly irrational decisions.</p>
<p>Having a hard time steering, here.</p>
<p>Maybe you know about this but you can get the number of graduating kids in each major for the “school with the great EVENT” on this website [College</a> Navigator - National Center for Education Statistics](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator]College”>College Navigator - National Center for Education Statistics). At the “school with the great event” it can be hard (next to impossible) to change to very popular majors in other colleges but not so bad between majors in the same college (other than some of the engineering majors) or to small, undersubscribed majors in other colleges. Maybe having the data will help if you can get a hold of an actual person in admissions!!</p>