Rose Hill Honors Program

Colleges and Universities A-Z Fordham University
1

Hello everyone,

I am currently a sophomore in the Fordham College Honors Program at Rose Hill. I know a lot of you have many questions about the program, so I wanted to make myself available to answer them. But first, a little bit about the program:

We are a highly selective liberal arts program that replaces the University Core requirements. Each year, 36 incoming students are accepted to the program. There is no strict requirement of grades/scores/activities to get into the program, but rather selection is done on a purely holistic level. When I went to my first class, I was amazed by how incredibly intelligent everyone is in the program, and being in that environment has allowed me to succeed.

Although there are opportunities for people to transfer in after the first semester and second semester, it is not very common. We also do not have that many people leave the program each year. It is a competitive but caring community. I have made most of my closest friends in the program, and I am very happy with my decision to be in it. There is NOT a housing requirement, but many the honors student live in Queen’s Court!

As a member of the program, you will take 3-4 seminar-style classes each semester for the first four semesters. The first semester is based in the ancient period, and you take philosophy, history, and literature of the ancient period. The next semester is the medieval period, and so you take philosophy, history and literature of the medieval world. Then it is the same for the third and fourth semesters with the early modern and contemporary periods.

On top of that, there are 1-credit art history class (both semesters freshman and sophomore year) as well as 1-credit music history classes (both semesters sophomore year). If you took AP Calculus AB or BC and scored a 4+, you are exempt from the math requirement. If you scored a 4+ on Psychology or Biology, you are exempt from the life science requirement, and if you scored a 4+ on Chemistry or Physics, you are exempt from the physical science requirement.

During your junior year, you take a seminar on world religions first semester and then on ethics in the second semester. Finally, in your senior year, you write a thesis during either the fall or the spring.

Now that I covered the academic requirements of the program, there are also other great advantages to it.

The best one, in my opinion, is access to the Alpha house, which is a 24-hour study space for honors student. It has a large table upstairs (where you take many of your classes) and some couches and computers in the basement–not to mention a printer! It is a great place to study, hang out, or just wait for your class to start upstairs!

The second great advantage is taking fantastic professors. Everyone you take will be a tenured professor, and in the course of my time in the program, I have been in a class with 4 department chairs! Although the classes are certainly challenging, I have found the experience overall incredibly rewarding. There’s nothing like staying up late reading Aristotle’s Nichomachean Ethics and discussing them the next day!

The third advantage, I have found, is that professors take you seriously right off the bat when you say that you are in the honors program. When you go to apply for a research grant, a special program, study abroad, or anything like that, them knowing that you are in the honors program goes a long way! Even with professors in your major, they know what honors students are capable of achieving!

Because I should be studying for a test right now, I will keep it short, but the final advantage is all of the extra activities! Each year, we have a BBQ in the spring, a Christmas party, cultural trips into Manhattan, a banquet, a book discussion with the Dean, a freshman trip to Central Park, a sophomore trip apple picking, and many other wonderful events!

Truly, the Honors Program has been an intellectually challenging experience, but when I think about campus, I always know that Alpha house is my home!

Feel free to ask any questions. I will try to get back to you in a timely manner.

2

Alpha111 - could you share your SAT / ACT scores so we could assess our chances of entering the Honors program? Thanks so much.

3

Hi JGish,

As I mentioned in the post, the ACT/SAT scores are not a major determining factor in the application. The committee certainly looks at them, but the strength of the essay and recommendations, as well as overall grades and activities weight in. That being said, I am sure many of the incoming students are in the 30-36 range for the ACT.

4

Thanks for posting this information. It’s great to hear from someone in the program. When did you know if you were accepted into the program? And in terms of competitiveness, do you get the impression that there are a number of students who may have been National Merit Finalists or similarly academically talented who don’t make it into the program?

5

Oh, another question – it seemed like they put an emphasis on having students in the program from a variety of disciplines. Do you think it might be easier to be accepted if you were from a less common discipline, like maybe a math major?

6

Do you apply to transfer in after the first/second semester?

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@canjsdad,

I was accepted during the summer (so after I decided to attend Fordham). Most people are accepted around this time though. And yes, many qualified students have not been accepted. I know a number of valedictorians and NMSF who were not accepted.

Also, I am not sure that just putting down a different major would help at all. While they care that not everyone is a specific discipline, the chances of someone being accepted just because of their major as opposed to because of their qualifications is small.

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@julia1611

You can do either. But it is best to start out in it.

9

Someone sent me an email about pre-med and scheduling. We have a lot of pre-med students in the program. Even though the course load is challenging for honors and pre-med (although I cannot attest to it myself), my friends say that it is definitely doable and they feel good about having done both. Accommodations are usually done on a case-by-case basis, but there should be no need to worry about not being able to finish both programs.

10

What is the minimum GPA required to stay in the program?

11

Thanks for the feedback @alpha111 . Fordham caught my eye because of the Fordham Scholarship that is tied to NMSF status, but I find it frustrating that I have no idea what my kid’s chances are of getting the scholarship, or, apparently, of getting into the honors program. That is very frustrating that you aren’t notified about the honors program until after you have committed to come. Fordham looks significantly more attractive inside the honors program. And by the way, I wasn’t suggesting using a major to “game” the system. My son does want to be a math major and I was wondering if that would increase his chances of acceptance to the honors program.

12

Well, in terms of chances, 36 are accepted to the Rose Hill program out of few thousand applicants a year. The scores would probably need to be top top in order to get in.

In general, Fordham doesn’t look at majors when admitting, so no major is preferred over the other. I’m assuming this stands true for the honors program as well. I’m not in the honors program though, just the regular program, and that’s challenging enough for me. (I go to Lincoln center, by the way).

13

My D did not know what she was going to major in when she applied to college, so they are not looking for particular majors. She applied RD and received her invitation to join the honors program about a week after she received her acceptance to FCRH.

14

We’re just back from a cross-country trip to Admitted Students’ day at Fordham. Three schools still standing, Fordham definitely one of them, but not knowing about the Honors College is kind of a big deal, and may be a deciding factor. The NMF scholarship is really compelling, but the other two options are both highly competitive and honors at one of the two is assured. He’s in a class at school now that’s a special senior honors curriculum that’s easily comparable to Honors at Fordham (even some of the same readings, it seems) - it’d be helpful to know if he’s got a shot, or if he should move on to look at the other options, both of which we’re visiting this month, too.

Catholic school kid, love the Jesuit charism and so much about the school, but I wish they’d at least let us know about this soon.

15

When I applied, I didn’t know about the honors curriculum, but it didn’t affect my decision when I learned about it. (I knew I didn’t have a shot. Nor did I care).To be frank, Fordham has a good reputation that can stand on its on without the honors. I wouldn’t dismiss it just because your kid might not get admitted to the honors program. As shown above, the chance of being admitted to honors is slim. But that’s not a good reason, in my eyes, to cross Fordham off the list like it could be for other schools.

Money of course is another factor, but I don’t see why something should be dismissed just because it was an unknown when applying initially.

I apologize if this sounds snotty, but honors isn’t, nor should it be, a make or break factor. The Fordham curriculum can be challenging enough. Not getting into honors is fairly inconsequential compared to everything else.

16

@Reader13 - I appreciate your perspective, and thanks for sharing it. We are basing this discussion on feedback from a few recent alums of S’ school who were in the same honors program at his current school, who went to Fordham. Some were in Honors, some were not. The ones who were not universally said that they were much more challenged in HS, and in particular found most of their Core classes to be pretty frustrating, except in a couple of cases where they worked specifically with professors to design alternate assignments and readings. (Which was extremely cool - it was great that the faculty in those courses were willing to increase the rigor for them. I know that wouldn’t happen everywhere, but also that not every faculty member was willing to do it.) I believe one ended up leaving Fordham to attend another school where she’d been accepted.

It’s not the SOLE factor, either way - but being in the Honors program would definitely add points in Fordham’s column. It’s the same with the other two schools under consideration right now - none is perfect, each has pros and cons. As we visit each and he learns more about each one, points are added and subtracted. Fordham is a terrific school, no doubt at all about that. Everyone has different factors for why they ultimately choose the school they do, and it’s fine for them to be different for different people. (My own criteria would be different from my S’, but I’m not the one making the decision! :slight_smile: ) Academic rigor is a major factor in his decision-making process, and feedback from others we know who’ve been in or out of Honors at Fordham is important.

17

My daughter is a freshman at Rose Hill. She scored between 700 and 750 on all three sections of the SAT and two SAT II subject tests, had a 3.9 GPA, was a National Merit commended student. From what I have read here, those may be only marginal qualifications for the Honors Program, but no one here really knows because the actual selection criteria are shrouded in mystery. Nevertheless, she hoped to be invited into the Honors Program. She waited all last spring for an invitation that never came. In June, she wrote to the professor who runs the program to express her interest. She received no reply. Halfway through the fall semester, she heard that a few students had received invitations to join the Honors Program in January. She was not one of them. She finished the fall semester with a 3.934 GPA. She is on her way to similar grades this semester. She has heard that a few more students may be invited into the Honors Program at the end of freshman year but no one has approached her about it, and for the most part she has put it behind her and moved on. My point is that there are more than 36 very smart, disciplined and ambitious freshmen each year at Fordham. The Honors Program sounds great, and certainly has its attractive features, but it is just another prize awarded on the basis of high school grades and test scores (in some cases, a consolation prize for those not accepted at an Ivy, intended to attract those students to Fordham over another “safety” school by promising a sense of exclusivity not otherwise associated with admission to Fordham). I am sure that most of the students invited into the program do very well at Fordham, but I am also sure that others who were overlooked coming in shine just as bright or brighter during their years on campus and at graduation.

18

Thanks, @DadUndaunted. We’re in no need at all of any sort of “consolation prize” - he’s NMF and has really great opportunities many places. He didn’t apply to Fordham as a safety, but because he really likes the school a lot. His interest in the Honors Program is not a “prize” at all- it’s a particular academic environment that he’s looking for, with a particular type of curriculum, and if it’s not an option for him at Fordham, no worries - he can move on with no hard feelings at all, and best wishes for the students who are in it. If anything, S is challenged by 3 excellent choices, where each school has a really strong edge over the others in completely different ways, and he’s got a list of factors to help differentiate them to make the final choice.

Knowing the experiences of the few people from here who’ve been in Fordham’s Honors program (as well as the ones from his HS Honors program who didn’t get in) and looking at a couple of syllabi - it is what would be the strongest remaining factor weighing in Fordham’s favor. Fordham is in no means something we’d view negatively if he’s not in that program, of course - still quite wonderful, just not specifically what he’s looking for, and he’s in a position for a few more weeks to make that choice. If Honors is viewed as a “prize” there, rather than as a different type of academic program, that may be enough of a reason to move on, though.

19

Don’t get me wrong – the Honors Program curriculum is different from the regular core curriculum and more interesting to some students, and there are very real advantages to being in it, not the least of which are the small community of serious students and the immediate attention of top professors. But the invitation into the Honors Program is based entirely on the materials submitted as part of the admissions process. In that sense, it is a prize for those admitted students who receive an invitation. It is my impression that most students at Fordham respect their classmates in the Honors Program because they know those kids must be very good students and they know that the program is demanding. But those 36 are not the only talented and motivated students at Fordham, and there are other opportunities for distinction and individualized attention from faculty available to students who are not chosen for the Honors Program, based on what they accomplish and demonstrate after they arrive on campus, not what they did in high school.

20

I am quite surprised at the small number of students invited to the Honors Program. Here’s why. Fordham is making a major effort to attract brighter students than they would normally have. Their primary method for doing this is the National Merit scholarships. NMSC produces an annual report that includes where the 7500 National Merit Scholars from the previous year attended school. In the most recent report, Fordham - Rose Hill had 40 National Merit Scholars attending. That is quite impressive considering that Georgetown, a similar East Coast Jesuit school with a much higher selectivity rate only had 28. And those statistics only include the 7500 officially chosen scholars. Since Fordham offers their scholarships to all National Merit Finalists, you should double that number to at least 80 who scored in the top 1% of their states. (There are about 15,000 Finalists nationally every year.) When you are attracting that level of top 1% talent at a school where most students’ test scores fall in the 75-90% range, I’m really surprised that they don’t do a better job of making sure that they all get into an honors program. It seems like they should take something closer to 100 students a year in the program rather than 36. Yes, that would be a bit less exclusive, but it would still only represent about 6% of the Rose Hill students. I’m concerned that Fordham may be recruiting top-tier intellectual talent without giving them the support and experience they are looking for.