<p>i want to apply ED. the only thing that's keeping me back is my SAT reasoning scores.
i have read that students can apply with either SAT reasoning + 2 sat subject OR just the ACT...</p>
<p>i have given SAT reasoning, SAT subject and will be giving the ACT in Oct.
what i want to do is, apply with ACT and SAT subject test scores only....</p>
<p>now if i apply with ACT scores only i wont be breaking any rules....
BUT if i apply with ACT and SAT subject scores sans the SAT reasoning, will i be going against their policy regarding score choice?</p>
<p>the reason why i want to send SAT subject test scores is coz i want to apply for the Jerome fisher program and i think that their presence can strengthen my application significantly. </p>
<p>If I remember correctly, Penn’s policy is send ALL scores from both companies no matter what, OR it’s send ALL scores from the single company you choose no matter what. Why are you sending Subject Test scores with the ACT? It’s either ACT vs. (SAT + Subject Tests)</p>
<p>Yes that’s exactly the problem. i CAN apply with just the ACT scores, but i WANT to send the SAT subject test scores in addition to that.because i think they strengthen my app especially since im applying for the jerome fisher program which itself is very competitive…</p>
<p>I don’t know, the website claims ACT vs SAT+Subject are valued equally. Logically you would think the Subject tests would boost you. I feel it should be ACT or SAT, then the subject test are an added bonus to ALL applicants. But it’s possible they won’t view any of your SAT stuff if you submit the ACT, even if the subject tests are good…</p>
<p>yea but then again they have also said on different pages that applicants for engineering r strongly encouraged to give the maths II and also for warton :s</p>
<p>and if im applying for the jerome fisher program, im basically applying to BOTH the schools…</p>
<p>basically my question is, if i send the ACT and SAT subject test scores (using score choice to not send my SAT reasoning scores) will i be breaking any of their rules? since ACT students, by default, aren’t meant to send SAT subject test scores. they are just “extra” information… can my situation be a potential loop hole?</p>
<p>its not that i want to deceive them or anything which is why im asking in the first place…
but i gave the SAT reasoning test 2 years ago and due to a few serious and totally valid events was not able to prepare or concentrate during the test.</p>
<p>im also contemplating on sending them all the scores and proving an explanation (not excuse!) on why the scores (SAT reasoning taken 2 years ago) dont reflect my real potential! would tht be viable? or advisable? or should i just send my ACT scores and hope for the best?</p>
<p>I think you may be breaking the rules, because one of the Ivy league schools (can’t remember which, either Princeton or Yale) has a similar testing policy then has a disclaimer saying if you submit one score from one company, you must submit all no matter what.</p>
<p>Also, email Penn. The recommendations for Math Level 2/Physics for Engineers and Math Level 2 for Wharton students ONLY matters if you are sticking with the SAT company. I emailed them personally and they said ACT covers everything. (Bizarre, I know, but please email them youself. They replied to me within one hour!) Good luck.</p>
<p>@smarty99 wait so they directly said the math 2/physics subject tests are only “strongly recommended” for students submitting SAT reasoning test? Because on the website it definitely does not make that distinction. Interesting if so…</p>
<p>I get that ACT covers everything, making one a valid applicant, BUT I, and am sure the OP, find it hard to believe that the ACT takes away the “strong recommendation.”</p>
<p>lets be honest… SAT math level 2 is definitely not in the league of the ACT maths section… how is that even comparable? :s
or am i just over thinking and being paranoid :s</p>
<p>Trust me I find it so crazy too. I went to a Columbia University Info session and they said the same thing. SAT + Subject tests, or send the ACT with writing. That’s it. And then they go further to mention what Subject Tests are recommended. </p>
<p>The reason they pasted the website is because it’s kind of obvious through the email if we didn’t have the stigma associated with subject tests. If it said you have test A and B, and test B needs accompanying tests based on undergrad school, we wouldn’t doubt it too much right?</p>
<p>Some how ACT science = SAT subject science to these schools. I don’t understand either. If anyone else can shed light, please do so.</p>
<p>Edit:
"Penn requires freshman applicants to submit either:</p>
<p>the SAT (which includes the Critical Reading, Math, and Writing sections) and two SAT Subject Tests
OR</p>
<p>the ACT Plus Writing"</p>
<p>Then they list the Subject Test recommendations. No where does it say subject tests apply for ACT students. I think they feel that location is an issue for some people (Midwest) to take any form of the SAT…</p>
<p>I agree EarlyAction95. I think it is strongly recommended regardless of whether one is submitting the ACT or SAT reasoning test. For this reason, I think you have to decide whether it’d be more helpful or harmful for Penn to see your subject tests scores if it means being attached to the SAT reasoning test. Technically you can send only the subject tests, but looks like the consensus on here is that that’d be breaking the rules.</p>
<p>“Candidates to Penn Engineering are strongly encouraged to take the Mathematics, Level 2, and Physics Subject Test.
Candidates to The Wharton School are strongly encouraged to take the Mathematics Subject Test, Level 2.
Candidates to the School of Nursing are strongly encouraged to take a Science Subject Test, preferably Chemistry”</p>
<p>It may not say ACT submitting applicants specifically, but it doesn’t say only SAT submitting applicants either. I think the vagueness says it all. “Candidates” refers to anyone applying to those schools, regardless of their preferred testing. Is an applicant eligible for those schools within Penn by only submitting their ACT score? Yes. Will that necessarily make them as competitive as possible, however? That I don’t believe.</p>
<p>If one took the SAT they want to see it no matter what. There really is no issue with this system unless one is trying to get around the score choice rule.</p>
<p>OKAY GUYS I JUST GOT A REPLY FROM PENN LIKE 10 MIN AGO:</p>
<p>Hello, I just wanted to confirm something I found on the website, as I’ve been receiving mixed responses. </p>
<p>As a prospective engineer, Penn recommends Math Level 2 and Physics. Is this recommendation still true for students taking ACT w/ Writing? Or does taking the ACT remove the need for any Subject Tests?</p>
<p>And finally if submitting the ACT means that the Engineering/Wharton Subject test recommendations aren’t necessary, would sending the SAT Subject Tests alongside the ACT be of any additional benefit to the applicant?</p>
<p>Answer: Again it isn’t necessary if you take the ACT Plus Writing.</p>
<p>That was the email. The “Answers” were in a different color by the admin counselor. Does this set it clear?</p>
<p>I tried my best to articulate the question for the admission counselor to suggest ANY benefit, yet s/he just said it’s not necessary. I see no reason for them to be sneaky about it, so I’ll just take it at face value.</p>
<p>I just feel like they evade any question that pertains to chances of admissions, refraining from providing any info that is omitted on the website. (Hence they just copied and pasted parts of the website lol). IMO to maximize one’s chances, sending subject tests with the ACT is a good idea; however, looks like we will never know for sure.</p>
<p>I think you guys are putting way too much emphasis on these tests–MUCH more than the admissions officers at Penn and other top schools do. They just don’t sit there and parse the scores, or make any real decisions based on them. Once your scores are in a certain range (generally middle 50% of accepted applicants, per Dean Furda in meetings I’ve attended), that’s it. They check off that box, and then move on to other parts of your application (essays, recommendations, ECs, etc.). The standardized tests are just another way they can ensure that the people they admit are intellectually capable of doing the work at Penn. In other words, it’s a threshold factor, NOT a dispositive one.</p>
<p>So that’s why they want EITHER the SAT and two SAT subject tests OR just the ACT. It’s really not worth thinking about these tests beyond that, because THEY certainly don’t. :rolleyes: And if you don’t believe that, just skim through some of the results threads to see lots of high scorers who were NOT admitted, and lots of lower scorers (albeit within the middle-50% range) who were.</p>
<p>I agree with 45 Percenter – that you’re overthinking the issue. Evidently your “top” scores are very good. Among them you have some “mediocre” scores. Colleges that don’t insist on “send all” wouldn’t see the mediocre scores.</p>
<p>My recommendation is that you send all your scores – ACT plus SAT. Trust Penn to downplay the mediocre scores and to focus on the great scores. After you’ve sent them, move on.</p>