Well, D made it through the ups and downs of first semester with just a few minor (to be expected I think) bumps in the road: loneliness, triple dorm issues, slow social life, etc. For the most part, these have all cleared…she has made a couple of good friends, opted into a single room this semester, and joined a few clubs.
Until last night. I got the dreaded phone call. Very upset, crying, anxious, too much homework, not enough fun, hates life, hates school. I talked her off the ledge so to speak, tucked her into virtual bed lol with a good episode of Law&Order, and orders to put the books away, eat a cookie or some ice cream, and get a good nights’ sleep. IT broke my heart to hear her so upset and I worried about her all night in her room by herself.
I called her this morning to check up and she’s still very anxious. She is an over-achiever and has some pretty difficult classes this semester as well as two jobs on campus. (She did get 4 A’s and an A+ her first semester and was ecstatic that all her hard work paid off). But, she said she had a paper due on Tuesday and a very difficult Org exam on Wednesday so she is spending the weekend in her room/library preparing for those. She’s upset that her friends all went to the movies last night and have plans all day today and tonight as well and she can’t join them. Of course, she could if she chose to, and I’ve suggested she put everything away at 4 pm for the night and go have some fun, but she’s not biting. She said she hasn’t been to the club meetings because she has too much homework. Personally, knowing her as I do, she puts the pressure on herself. We talked about being okay with a B, that she needs a find a balance. We also talked about working just 5-6 hours next semester.
How did/do you help your students find a balance? I need ideas. She is too far away for me to run up and have dinner or anything like that on a regular basis but I will be going to pick her up Thursday night, spending the night to meet some of her new friends and we’ll drive home on Friday for her spring break.
I’m sorry. I used to call my mom with all the bad stuff, and rarely with the good stuff. It’s so hard to judge the seriousness of a situation, especially from a distance.
I’m a big fan of establishing a relationship with a good therapist who will challenge a person’s assumptions and teach coping skills. If she can’t find someone at school, perhaps try to connect her with someone at home over the summer. Some therapists will do Skype.
I like @Midwest67 's advice. I’d add that you can continue to listen and ask her questions that will help her find the balance. I’d try not to find too many answers for her (because she may feel like if she doesn’t take them, she’ll be disappointing you), and I’d emphasize that you aren’t going to judge her or love her less is she doesn’t get all As.
From a strategic point of view on the academic front, she might be well-advised to think about her schedule in terms of how important each class is to her and how much work each one will require so that there’s some balance there (as well as in the variety, if that’s important.) You may want to ask her what she wants to get out of the college experience and why, then help her think through whether there might be some trade-offs there. If friendships and having fun are important, she needs to consciously work that into her plans.
We often tell our kids that they should just do their best, so it’s not surprising that some of them really internalize this. The truth is that there are a lot of things that don’t need to be done to that standard.
@Midwest67, thank you. And you re right, I need to remember that she is calling with the bad stuff even though there is plenty of good stuff that I’m not hearing about all the time. I need to remind myself of that. We have talked about therapy but she’s resistant. I’m familiar (I’m a licensed social worker/degree in adolescent psych) and agree that it can be helpful but only if you want it. Thank you for your input
@gardenstategal, her schedule is pretty much locked in so she can double major and still study abroad. These are her wishes, not mine lol. I just need her to accept that an occasional B is okay, especially if its a trade-off for something you really want, like FUN. This is something I’ve been working on with her since elementary school and haven’t been able to get through to her. That dreaded B is going to happen, just wish it would happen soon so we can move on…
“We often tell our kids that they should just do their best, so it’s not surprising that some of them really internalize this. The truth is that there are a lot of things that don’t need to be done to that standard.”
I think it took me until I was 38 to figure this out? And it wasn’t because no one told me…
You gave her a lot of good advice but she is not interested in slacking off. She needed to vent and it sounds like you were a good listener. I think two jobs and a full load of classes is a lot to take on. Even if the two jobs are equal to one, the scheduling is stressful. When she comes home next week, she should be calmer and more receptive to the balance conversation. Ultimately, she is learning that being an overachiever can have a price (less sleep, less fun, more stress).
@gettingschooled, thank you I think you may be right, she just needed to vent. She doesn’t have too many pity-parties for herself (even when I think its deserved), maybe it was just that. And yes, I think I’ll put my foot down next semester and give her the choice of the extra (5th) class OR working 10-12 hours, but not both. Maybe even college kids sometimes need to be told what to do if they aren’t making the healthiest choices for themselves. Or maybe I won’t have to “insist” on anything, and this is the learning curve she needs to balance sleep/fun/stress in the future.
@NEPatsGirl I have 2 over achieving daughters at college, too, and I have periodically fielded similar phone calls. It is very upsetting, but it was good that you were able to get her through some tough moments.
I pushed both of my daughters to visit the counting center at their college and both found it to be very helpfull. My younger daughter, now a sophomore. Is in general an anxious, mildly OCD kid who has a hard time adjusting to new experiences, so settling in that first semester away was a big challenge for her.
After daily tearful phone calls her first weeks at college, I finally convinced her go to the counseling center. She went regularly for a few months snd stopped when she got settled in her classes, found friends and activities, etc.
My older daughter transitioned well her freshman year, but started having issues during her sophomore year, when she decided , coincidentally, to double major in biochemistry and computer science and also do a semester abroad. She felt overwhelmed at times and she found a counselor at school who helped her develop good coping strategies. She has continued to meet with her counselor regularly, even though things are going well, she appreciates having a “neutral” sounding board. She has learned that getting an occasional B is not the end of the world.
If you feel like there are on going anxiety issues, encourage your daughter to seek out help at her school’s counseling center. I feel as though my daughters are both now much better equipped to handle life’s ups and downs. Anxiety can turn into depression and become a much bigger problem.
I have an over-achieving daughter and she has not worked at all during college when she had classes. If you can afford it, have her drop the work totally. Hopefully this will free up time for clubs and give her some enjoyment. You are not going to change her personality. Once one of her friends mentioned that my daughter was the only one who would do homework while they all hung out on a Friday night!
Unfortunately she does have to work, but she doesn’t have to work two jobs or more than say 5-6 hours/week, just enough for spending money, travel money, etc. She originally took a coffee shop position (work study) for 7 hours a week and then was offered a tutoring job by the chem head and felt like she should take it and did, that adds another 5 hours each week. Same chem head offered her a research position for this summer at the college and she is considering doing that as well. I think she could use some time here at home but she feels that you can’t pass up these opportunities. I don’t know what to think lol. I did post a question about double majoring and career prospects and the general consensus is that double majoring isn’t a leg up in the job market. I think we need to revisit that as well. Bottom line is she needs more free time to have fun.
My D sounds a lot like yours. She finally opted out of the double major (it became a minor). She decided that instead of doing a semester abroad with the school (which required cramming classes into the other semesters), she took a semester off and set up her own ‘study abroad option’ with a language school, an airbnb apt. rental and other local infrastructure that cost half of what a semester abroad would have. It was so successful that she did it again later when she wanted to do research abroad. It meant taking 5 years to graduate instead of 4 (but we only needed to pay tuition for 4 years since her overseas stuff was self- and grant-funded) so she wasn’t as pressured. We also encouraged her to take a least one ‘life skills’ class a semester - a fun class like Indian cooking, swimming, yoga, tennis, conditioning, drawing, ceramics, sign language: She ended up running a marathon, learning to draw and to meditate and making some new friends in the process (once she got over the guilt of using an academic ‘slot’ on something ‘non-intellectual.’) And yes, she had a very productive and helpful relationship with a psychologist who helped her disassociate ‘good enough’ from ‘mediocre’ in her self-evaluation among other things.
At this point, she’s got it figured out: balance, coping with uncertainty, decision-making without compete info, living with the B when there are bigger goals at stake, knowing when to ask for help, knowing when to follow her gut, finding constructive ways to manage stress. These are the kinds of life lessons that you can’t teach but that over-achieving (and other) kids often need to learn on their way to adulthood.
D hopes to do one semester in Spain and can take three of the necessary classes in her minor Latin American Studies, while there and do an internship as well. She would also like to go to Australia the following year where it is quite easy to take both the science and math classes she will need.
OP- your D’s education won’t be hampered in any way if she has only one major vs. two. Your D’s education won’t be hampered in any way if she decides not to study abroad but finds a summer program, fellowship after completing her undergrad, gets a job overseas, or some other alternative- it’s not like if you don’t go abroad junior year you can never have a quality international experience. And best of all- your D’s education won’t be hampered in any way if she gets a B.
Your D WILL find that an inability to ask for help when she’s overwhelmed (whether counseling to deal with anxiety, or scheduling with a Dean when her schedule is untenable, or help from the tutoring center when it seems to take her longer than her classmates to write a paper or study for an exam, or help from the TA when she keeps getting the same answer wrong on a quiz) IS going to hamper her education, long term, and possibly in some consequential ways.
She is a hard worker and no doubt will feel stretched at some points along the way. That’s a good thing. But if she’s always the one of her friends who can’t see a movie, go hear the college’s jazz jam, watch her roommate row crow- and not just the night before a big test but for an entire semester- she needs to raise the white flag and get some help.
The double majoring craze has got to go (in my opinion). Unless a kid is in a situation where come senior year he or she realizes that with one class first semester and another class second semester, he/she can easily slide into a second major-- there doesn’t seem to be a lot of upside and plenty of downside- especially if it’s the source of a lot of scheduling angst. Kids think that econ and statistics are going to make them oh-so-much-more employable. Which is absolutely true. But it doesn’t NEED to be a double major for it to count- it can just be “BA in Econ” with Matlab and SAS and a few other “keywords” on the resume which indicate solid skills in statistics. The current mania for neuroscience at the undergrad level- which in many colleges means a double major in bio and psych or chem and bio- crazy. Nobody is getting hired as “neuroscientist” after getting a BS anyway. So major in the core discipline- take enough classes in allied fields so that you know what you are getting into if you decide to pursue a doctorate in neuroscience, and call it a day.
Big hugs. There is nothing worse than the tearful phone calls. Except maybe no phone calls when you are imagining her misery.
See if you can get her to make an appointment with her advisor, dean, or counseling center. Baby steps.
@blossom, thank you for your input, I value your opinion. She is stuck on this double major/one minor avenue and I think she needs to detour a bit. She is amazing at math. She originally wanted to learn Arabic. Her future goal is to work with FBI (I know that may change of course). Time to pull it back and look at the big picture again I think. I think science only came about because 1) the early courses came very easy to her and 2) it seemed like the logical double with math for some reason lol. I’d like her to take CS this upcoming semester (its required for math) instead of her junior year, and more importantly, instead of a biochem class, and see if it is at all appealing to her. What’s your take on a Math/CS double or major/minor?
And, yes, she is the friend who always “can’t go to the movies or to the jazz jam, etc” and it’s not healthy. She manages to squeeze in a weekend a month to see her boyfriend but even then there’s a lot of studying together (he’s a double engineering major at UMA).
As for study abroad, this is her dream. She loves to travel and its not something we can easily afford but at school, her finaid covers it so its a great opportunity for her. I also think at least the semester in Spain will be less academically challenging for her, a break of sorts. Australia maybe not so much.
D realized she needed to change her approach during winter quarter her sophomore year. On the outside, she looked like a major success - heaps of praise that were meant to be encouraging but just raised the stakes. She ‘hit the wall’ so to speak: She realized she was so stressed out by her own and others expectations that she wasn’t taking enough risks academically and being as creative as she could be or wanted to be in her discipline(s). She decided that she needed to be okay with failing. And she wasn’t feeling the joy that her studies (and relationships) had previously brought her. That’s what got her into the psychologist’s office winter quarter - and overseas for her first self-study abroad in the spring. When she came back, she decided to do things differently - hence the suggestions in the prior post.
The FBI is a wonderful goal. As is the NSA, CIA, DHS, Interpol-- as well as at least another dozen agencies which either deal in security, law enforcement, prosecuting terrorists and drug traffickers, cyberlaw, human trafficking, etc. Even the post office (the lowly post office) has a law enforcement arm which actually does some extremely sophisticated tracking and analysis of criminal behavior; the SEC, every single Federal prosecutor’s office, Secret Service, etc.
The good news is that there are at least 25? I could probably think of more if I tried- paths to this type of a career. There are lots of things that can derail the hyper-specific goal that a kid has in mind (a medical condition which precludes job A) but like anything else in life- when a door closes, a window opens.
Your D can take many paths to her goal and NONE of them involve the kind of stress and anxiety she’s facing right now.
Math and CS? No need to double major. Major in one, show facility in the other. Bingo. Minor in Latin American Studies? Nobody will care. Being fluent in Spanish is never a bad thing- but why jump through hoops to minor?
I know a young woman whose goal was JAG. Her entire middle school/high school/college goal was JAG. (a very honorable way to serve, by the way). During law school she was diagnosed with a chronic medical condition- not life threatening in any way, but a disqualifier for the armed services.
She’s now an AUSA (Federal prosecutor) working on cybercrime, can’t imagine any other career for herself. Which is the way these things tend to go.
I think I"m finally catching on Now’s the hard part, convincing D. I know that languages is a big pull with the FBI, I think going back to studying both Spanish (nearly fluent now) and Arabic would be both enjoyable and beneficial for her and the classes could simply be elective.
You don’t need to convince D. You do need to persuade her to either devote an hour to looking at the hiring criteria for the jobs she’s interested in (all online) OR visiting career services at her college to meet with the person who is an expert in Public Sector careers.
An hour will convince her. And she may learn that she’s not as interested in the FBI as she thought but she’d love to join the team at the justice department doing XYZ, or would rather work in the private sector for a company developing anti-hacker technologies, or work for a consulting firm which does forensic accounting (tracing the assets of dictators or war criminals so they can be used as restitution for victims) or work for a museum tracking down the owners of works which were stolen and then donated in a laundering attempt.
My son (four years of Arabic IR major) is now planning on Officer Training for the Navy and probably going into intelligence from there. They look very highly on STEM degrees.
