<p>I probably should start another thread, but did anyone see 60 Minutes last night, about a Connecticut family who allowed underage drinking in their home for a party, and the father justified this by NOT providing the booze and taking the car keys upon entrance to the party?</p>
<p>Upshot was that he was arrested because of a new CT state law saying that even if they did NOT provide the alcohol, to allow teen drinking on the premises was a crime.</p>
<p>Easy to say the guy was nuts for even thinking about this, but the father does have a point in that beer and those newfangled sweet drinks like Smirnoff Ice and Mike's Hard Lemonade (that 60 Minutes says is geared toward young females) are criminally easy to get by teens (much easier than in my day) and that they're going to drink no matter what, and it might as well be NOT while they're driving around.</p>
<p>We've never condoned drinking to our D, but she does go to parties, mostly at one house where the parents are either laissez-faire or oblivious. Regardless of the law, I would not want that liability.</p>
<p>The problem with kids is that they are not going to thank you for letting them drink under "safe" condition or stay with the wine tasting at dinner. It is just the way of young people to push things and if you give some of these kids an inch, they take a mile. If families want to privately have drinking sessions at home such as champagne toasts or some wine with a fine dinner, that is one thing, but when you start this business with a group of kids, it is asking for trouble. All you need is one escapee who gets out with some alcoholl in his system, gets a ride from a friend, adds onto the drinks from the early evening, takes the wheel and ....well, where he did start his drinking that evening? I don't find that the gratitude kids give you on this stuff is particularly heartening. They tend to do something stupid and get themselves and you in trouble. Yeah, many times it works out all right, but it isn't the stuff that works out that is the problem; it is the downside of a disaster. Drinking is illegal for kids under 21, and I would expect adults to obey the law. Getting drinks for kids underage is illegal as well. In fact when you have a large group of kids at your house, it behooves you to make sure they did not bring a stash in their car, or hidden somewhere that they are taking nips. With 5 in and finished with college, I can tell you that I have seen it all. And if I had not this one in highschool would given me the education. A lot of nice, smart kids doing some awfully stupid, ruinous things is what I see too often. Not much you can do most of the time, but you can take some of the more obvious precautions and certainly not contribute to the problem.</p>
"The Mom's Lament."<br>
I really feel for you on this, taramom. I both admire your decision and empathize with the internal second-guessing. Somehow, it seems that the dads don't quite have this internal dialogue as much. I guess it just comes with our territory.</p>
The 60 Minutes show portrayed a parental view that is, of course, not totally uncommon. We have those families in our area, as does everyone. I am not one of them, because as jamimom says, it is illegal, so what kind of modelling are we doing for our kids? </p>
<p>The coup de grace for me was what went on at the 60 Mins. parent-hosted party -- kids turned upside down pouring alcohol into their throats with the keg hose... </p>
<p>I would have a little more willingness to entertain the viewpoint of a parent who hosted such a party if s/he was on the scene sufficiently to see that drinking took place in a moderate fashion -ie, an extension of what some of us do, as jamimom says, allowing our own children in our own homes to have a champagne toast or wine with a special meal... This is, of course, legal in our own home with our own child. In our house, we do this to model that alcoholic beverages are appropriate in moderation for purposes other than scrambling your brain.</p>
<p>These parents condoned/encouraged extremely irresponsible behavior. Car accidents are one tragic possible outcome that they hope, and that's all it is, they circumvented. There is also blood alcohol poisoning, loss of judgment leading to compromising situations, non-consensual sex and more... There are too many stories of kids leaving a party on foot, and found dead due to exposure to the elements a day or more later.</p>
<p>Sometimes I wonder what planet some of you grew up on. I went to prom way back in the mid 60's in suburban NJ. I was in the "in crowd" of preps and virtually everyone with a steady gf was already "doing it" by the beginning of senior year. So prom was much more about the after parties and driving to the shore to watch the sunrise--and doing it. either on the beach or wherever was handy. A room was a luxury but the lack of one was not a major handicap. Luckily my dad was a Caddy man.</p>
<p>Originally Posted by taramom
"Its a parents nature I guess that were always second guessing ourselves. Theres always a downside no matter what we choose and we have to live with it." LOL</p>
<p>My D asked a while ago if she could be part of a group renting houses at the beach for "senior week" (separate houses for boys and girls) and I said no. I was surprised to hear recently that a lot of her friends (whose parents are pretty level headed) are going. My sister was also allowing her senior son, who is not very social, to go to the beach for senior week with friends from HIS school. So I was starting to wonder if I had made the wrong decision and to feel bad for ruining my daughter's fun. I was about to call my sister and mention this to her when the phone rang. It was my sister and she was calling to say that she was sorry she had ever said her son could go and wished she could change her mind! You can't win:) !!!</p>
<p>At a hs student leadership conference here in Silicon Valley, hotel staff caught young man attempting to climb down from the balcony of his room on the male student floor to the balcony on the female student floor below. These were like the 5th and 6th floors of a multi-story hotel with 500 students attending the conference.</p>
<p>The point is, adult chaperones have to monitor both inside and outside a hotel. Teenagers can be very creative and will do dangerous, stupid things.</p>
<p>Yep. One year a group of boys threw out furniture from the window. That is why I tell them that I will check the window side of the hotel periodically, alternaitng with Mrs M and Mr.C, and that hotel security is also keeping an ey on the windows. I have also kept the door open a crack with a shoe wedged in there so I can hear any unusual activity. I was told it was over kill until the year they had some incidents,and then they wanted met to take over the chaperioning for pay! Couldn't pay me enough!</p>
<p>AT youth and Government conferences in Sacramento, there are invariably those couples that will try to have sex. Although there is a ratio rule in place( having different numbers of males and females) there was a scandal a few years ago when two males and three females had sex in a suite. Technically, they werent breaking any rules but they were still sent home. A lot of my roomates have concocted plans for going around to their gf's room. While I'm sure a lot have succeeded, a lot more have gotten caught(after all, our advisors are former delegates). Personally I prefer to cruise the hallways trying to meet people outside my delegation. youth and government is great in that there are so many set ice breakers in place and everyone is flirting with everyone else :D. Oh, how I miss those days. Next year, I'll have to be a staff intern and supervise those hormonally charged teens.</p>
<p>"A lot of nice, smart kids doing some awfully stupid, ruinous things is what I see too often. Not much you can do most of the time, but you can take some of the more obvious precautions and certainly not contribute to the problem."</p>
<p>"Teenagers can be very creative and will do dangerous, stupid things."</p>
<p>Amen to both! i just arrived home on Sunday from a band trip. Even with band nerds (which I love dearly), things happen. Some small group of kids decides to sneak out, trash their room, etc. Even seniors who are graduating in a month don't use the best judgement. Yes, if you give them an inch, some will take a mile. Good luck figuring out which ones have their track shoes on.</p>
<p>My daughter and her friend - both underclassmen - are attending prom with boys they have dated all year. A very tame evening is planned - mainly because both boys have wonderful parents and both respect the girls they are dating and the fact that they are younger. School sponsored prom activities and movies with breakfast at one of the boy's homes is on tap. Several seniors we know that are attending are getting rooms. They always do. I always say a prayer before prom that no parent foolish enough to encourage such behavior pays the ultimate price.</p>
<p>My son attended prom last year with a girl that was a good friend and classmate. They were home by three and had a blast with their friends without drinking or going to a room. I haven't heard him once comment that he felt he was deprived of the experience.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ahh, the old do as I say, not as I did standard??
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not exactly. I'd say we were pretty open in our discussions and pretty lenient in our freedoms. </p>
<p>There were a couple of issues that we were pretty tough about. One was never, under any circumstances, get in a car with someone who has been drinking. Aside from the obvious safety issues, there is the substantial cost of a DUI. So that was zero-tolerance.</p>
<p>The other was unchaperoned teenage parties. Just not comfortable with that. Not an issue of trusting our kid, but rather the combustable nature of those events. So, we ended up hosting several all-night parties at our house, for which friends' parents were eternally grateful.</p>
<p>When we were uncomfortable with an idea, we said that we weren't comfortable. It was a two-way street. If we were expected to suck it up and allow freedoms that we weren't wild about, kid had to respect when we just weren't comfortable with something. In the only significant case I can remember, an all-night unchaperoned beach house party, none of the other kids' parents were buying the idea either. Sometimes I think the kids are even lookin' for somebody to say, "no". We ended up hosting the all-night party here as a compromise.</p>
<p>Go into Boston for a free rock concert at the Halfshell? No problem. Sheesh, we even let 'em drive to some godawful mosh pit Ozfest stadium concert because Linkin Park or somebody was playing. I wasn't real excited about that one, but ya gotta work with 'em. </p>
<p>So, no. I don't think it was a "do as I say, not as I do" deal. I don't think daughter and friends feel that way either.</p>
<p>"Ahh, the old do as I say, not as I did standard??"</p>
<p>So... my parents were dealing with mental illness and their own problems and did not monitor my or my siblings behavior or our academic progress while we were under their roof.
As a result we were pretty wild- I expect as an attempt to get an adult to become involved enough to rein us in. Didn't happen.</p>
<p>Just because I was neglected as a teen and left to raise myself, does not mean that I am going to follow the same path for my children.
Kids and teens ARE kids, want boundaries, that is how they learn their way, I give my kids boundaries- even though I did not have them growing up.</p>
<p>I am not talking about kids from whacky homes with ISSUES. My crowd was all from middle and upper middle two parent homes with a 95% college rate. Jocks, cheerleaders, National Honor Society etc. But we still found plenty of ways to explore life without the eyes of parents watching every move. Field parties were one of my favorites. Growing up in a rural area with many backroads with isolated fields and only 1 cop for the entire township gave us plenty of room to maneuver. A little Ripple and some bad pot went a long way in those days. Nobody died until after HS when a few of the more marginal students I knew had to go to Vietnam.</p>
<p>You are overlooking a key factor. There was a revolutionary shift in American youth culture in the post-war period from the 1950s to 1970s, fueled by two factors: the mobility of the automobile and the boom in mass media. </p>
<p>Our parents, who had grown up in the 30's and 40's literally had no clue. As a result, kids of the 60s and 70s got away with murder.</p>
<p>Today's parents, by and large, do have a clue. We know all the tricks in the book. We know exactly what the options facing our kids are. I suppose that is good and bad for the kids. It's good because we aren't looking at things (for example, birth control or a discussion about responsible drinking) unrealistically. On the other hand, we are also well aware of the types of situations that can get our kids in trouble. For example, I know PRECISELY what will go on at an unchaparoned all-night beach party. Armed with that knowlege, there are going to be times when a "no" is in order.</p>
<p>I also think you have to considered the ramifications of teenage behaviors. For example, a DUI was relatively minor irritant in the 1960s. Today, it might end up costing tens of thousands of dollars to unravel. Or, if you want a serious discussion: The risk of contracting a fatal sexually-transmitted disease was quite low when we were kids. Alas, a shot of peniccillin won't cure the HIV virus.</p>
<p>I knock on wood everyday that my D and her friends almost never put us in a situation of having to say "No." I understand that, but for the grace of god, the challenges of raising a teenager in the 21st century could have been far tougher. The group of friends were a pleasure to have around and a positive influence on each other.</p>
<p>both my parents attended college- I grew up in a very nice suburban area- that does not mean that parents kept track of their kids- why didn't your parents keep track?
I attended schools in one of the best districts in the country-I see that you are in Seattle- I lived in Bridle Trails and attended school in the Lake washington district. Iknew lots of kids who partied out in the woods but also lots who died related to drug/alcohol.
One reason why I moved to the city after I had kids- I knew there was more supervision going on in the city neighborhoods than in the suburbs.</p>
<p>We had a curfew like most kids did of around 12 on F/S nights. As the closest movie theater was at least 5 miles away it was pretty acceptable to be out and about from 7 to 12. We all had cars or access to a friend with one. As I had skipped a grade my gf was older and had to drive until late my senior year when I finally got my own.
My HS is listed in the top high schools in the country in some recent book so it was pretty good. </p>
<p>The comment about the rise of concern over STD's and the criminalization of teen drinking and other behavior is real and to me reflects somewhat the overcompensation by our generation to eradicate what we freely got away with. I also am pretty sure many of the kids today are doing the same things we did--you just don't know it.</p>