Setting Limits on College Choices

Parent Cafe
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<p>I was re-reading a thread that I'd started last October, struggling to identify college choices for my younger stepson who is a bright kid but a poor performer in school in which I had mentioned, as an aside, we were limiting his college choices. Some thought that was unfair. We've gone even further than where we were then, and so I'd like some add'l thoughts: </p>

<p>Beginning before his freshman year of high school, we told him that his effort and choices would determine where he went to school, from both a "where-he-could-get-in" and "where-we-would-pay" perspective. </p>

<p>For context, his sister knew early on that she wanted to go to a particular Top 15 school and worked so hard during high school and applied only there. She graduated last year. His brother wasn't as hard a worker but he did what it took to make straight As in school. He graduates from a Top 10 school this year. </p>

<p>Conscious of the fact that his siblings set lofty standards, we told YSS from the outset: this isn't about grades; that he didn't need straight As to write his ticket to college. But we did say that we expected him to go to school, do his homework, and make reasonable efforts in school. Not, in my mind, an onerous expectation. Along the way, we've hired tutors, counselors, etc. to help him with any issues that may be impacting his ability to thrive. </p>

<p>He had a 2.3 going into his junior year. The result of 20+ absences a year and refusal to do homework. He boasts that he's never read a book cover to cover, and the 4s he gets on English tests reflect that. We sat him down, and we said that doors were closing with a 2.3 but that he had plenty of time to turn that around. We read all those Harvard Schmarvard type books that talk about finding good fits for kids and included him in those discussions. </p>

<p>His junior year was his worst one yet.</p>

<p>He ended his junior year with 28 absences from school, dropped AP History mid-second semester b/c the readings were too much and so he was failing, received a D & a F on his report card for Physics. He refused summer school and declined to retake Physics this year in favor of keeping the D and F and just taking another science lab. </p>

<p>He signed up for the SATs in June but, despite reminders to him that week, he forgot to go. [As of last year, he doesn't live with us] </p>

<p>We told him after his first semester (of junior year) that his initial choices for college are limited to a state school in Texas. Clearly UT and A & M are out of reach for him. Depending on his test scores, Tech might be a possibility. Also we're looking (although he's not interested in the process) at Texas State, UNT, and Stephen F. Austin. </p>

<p>We offered to take him to look at any school he wanted to see, but a few obscenities later, he told us to leave him alone about college. </p>

<p>It's not rocket science to puzzle out that he's resentful of our decision to limit his choice to a Texas state school. He asked if there were any circumstances he could go "out of state." (He doesn't have any particular idea where he wants to go, no extra-curricular interests that might dictate one school over another, etc. and so we're not closing the door on any place specific, just the idea). We told him that poor high school choices didn't have to follow him around forever, and that if he went to a Texas state school and gave his best effort freshman year, then we'd happily consider a transfer to the school of his choice. (He responded, "so, you're saying, I can never go out of state.") </p>

<p>We have the financial ability to pay for any school he could get in to. For me, it's not about the $$ so much as the lesson to be learned that choices have consequences. I hate, on the one hand, that I've allowed this debate to deteriorate to the point that he sees getting a free, perfectly good education at a state school as punishment, but that's where we are.</p>

<p>It's not as if it's too late to undo this decision and let him broaden his choices. What would you do?</p>

<p>[Let me preempt the obvious by saying that we have strongly suggested a gap year for him. He is adamantly opposed. He has assured us that whether it's one year from now or 10 years from now, he plans to give college the same effort he gives now in high school. I know. Exactly the sort of immature response a gap year is designed to improve. We can certainly withhold the $$ and require a gap year but given that his parents are not on the same page about this, we're not willing to force that over his mom's objection. We'll let him go his first year, and if he washes out, he'll take his time off then.]</p>

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<p>Are you his stepmom, married to his dad? And his bio mom doesn’t want you to withhold college $$ as a means of encouraging some maturity? Do you have the freedom to withhold $$, or have a say in choosing the college, or is there some type of custody/divorce decree that must be followed?</p>

<p>This sounds like a very angry kid. I can only guess from your post that there might be other conflicts between the parents that feed into this situation. That being said, if your clearly communicated to the boy that his efforts & grades must improve if he wants more choices for college, and he blew off those requirements, I would not cave in and let him go elsewhere. That’s assuming, of course, that his mom agreeed from the start that he’d be held accountable for his actions. </p>

<p>I don’t envy you or the boy. I hope it can be resolved.</p>

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<p>What an awful situation! My heart goes out to you.</p>

<p>This isn’t really a question about college at all. It’s a question about how to help a troubled, angry, immature boy grow up, when he doesn’t live with you, and when divorce complicates parental decisionmaking. It looks like anything anyone spends on any college for your son in the near future is going to be essentially wasted money, or at best an expensive lottery ticket to see whether maturity strikes unexpectedly. The only good news – really, it’s awful news – is that it doesn’t look like anyone will be paying a second year of tuition anywhere unless things change a lot for the better.</p>

<p>That said, personally, I’m not sure I would do what you are doing. I fear what he’s hearing now is “You haven’t earned our love, so we’re not going to give it to you.” That’s just never going to be a productive conversation. You tried to use college to motivate him, and it didn’t work. The question is, what’s going to motivate him NOW, what’s going to help him move forward. Maybe the answer is a Texas state college, but if it is that would be an accident. I get the sense that you are sticking with what you said before for the sake of consistency, not because you think it’s a particularly good course now. </p>

<p>I don’t know what a good course now would be, though. His mother can’t be happy with the situation, either. What does she think should happen?</p>

<p>I would focus on getting on the same page with her, since your disagreement isn’t helping anything, and any plan is probably better than the no-plan effect of parental disagreement. If that’s not possible, you probably have two choices. (a) Limit yourself to your legal obligations, hand that money (if any) over to his mom, and tell her it’s her decision what to do. (b) Give your son some options: if you do X, Y, and Z, we will do A, B, and C; if you do V and W, we will do D and E. And invite him to propose his own deal. As for specifics, I would try to develop them carefully, with the help of a therapist, based on who the boy is right now, not who you hoped he might be. The key question has to be how HE plans to become a man.</p>

<p>(Maybe the answer is, “We’ll pay for any college you want . . . after your honorable discharge from the Marines.”)</p>

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<p>Has my son moved in with you? It sounds as if they’re twins that were separated at birth. I’m with StickerShock on this one. If you were clear about expectations, offered support and encouragement (and it sounds as if you did), I would not change course at this point. Unlike you, we can’t afford any school without financial aid and our son’s choices are pretty limited given a poor GPA, poor extracurriculars and a just generally poor attitude. Due to our geographic location (he doesn’t want to go out of state), state school choices are limited but economically it’s about the only thing we can afford (unless a giant bag of money comes from some of the private schools he’s interested in). It is really frustrating. I think there is something in their brains that prevents the processing of the fact that effort, or lack thereof, will have consequences.</p>

<p>Cross-posted with JHS: well said as always.</p>

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<p>So, I was reading through the previous thread about your stepson to get a clearer picture of the situation…</p>

<p>The fact that his “mother” does not set any limits is an example of misguided parenting.</p>

<p>I have to wonder what the school says about all of those absences. In my D’s school, if you missed that much you wouldn’t even get credit for the classes–you’d be forced to go to summer school. Have you met with his GC? </p>

<p>If he has no learning disabilities, then he is clearly resentful about the divorce. How old was he when that occurred? Was he a better student as a younger child?</p>

<p>My biggest concerns from what you’ve posted is that he doesn’t seem to have any direction or passion except for the video game you’ve mentioned. That and that he seems to want to go out of state to get away from everyone. The fact that he did some research shows some motivation on his part, but maybe not the right kind.</p>

<p>I think he might be better served by confronting the underlying issues. Going away might be more than just a disasterous financial mistake.</p>

<p>I think it might be important to reinforce that you are not “punishing” him, but that you are really concerned about his future.</p>

<p>I suppose if he were mine, I would suggest some mental health counseling first before making any decisions about college. </p>

<p>Sorry, but that’s all I’ve got at the moment.</p>

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<p>A bright underachieving teenager who rejects all parental guidance. Gee, where have I heard that before? I feel your pain kharts, and I’m truly sorry that you face this situation.</p>

<p>How 'bout this? “Son, it’s obvious you’re not ready for college. Maybe next year.”</p>

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<p>He went into his junior year with a 2.3 and then his junior year was his worst one yet - has not taken the SAT (or ACT?) yet. What college does he realistically expect to get into? We are just north of you (Oklahoma) and he would not get into any of the State 4 year schools in OK - even the smaller regional ones have a higher GPA requirement that 2.3. If it were me I would be saying - junior college and if you can make good enough grades then you can transfer and we will support you. </p>

<p>I think his consequences will come about quite naturally from his low GPA.</p>

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<p>Perhaps if he could prove that he is capable of a successful 1st year at an in-state school, you could offer up the option to transfer out-of-state the following year. Be firm in that it is NOT punishment, but an investment, and you want to invest wisely.</p>

<p>Doesn’t sound like being too far away would be a good idea at the moment…</p>

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<p>I would also suggest ‘you’ stop looking into colleges for him. Put the ball in his court and let him do the looking and try and find a college he can get into with his stats. Right now he gets to cast you in the role of ‘bad guys’. With his past record he will probably not even bother to look. Then his option will be down to community colleges.
My son was not at all interested in the college search process and did not apply himself much in HS (but ended up with a GPA of 3.4). He never expected us to send him to an out of state college but unenthusiastiacally started off at junior college - still was not too interested. Dropped out and worked full time for a year and a half. (interestingly he has a totally different attitude to work as opposed to school and ended up at 20 being the assistant manager of a retail business). He is now returning to college and is very serious about it. Sometimes they just need time to figure it out for themselves.</p>

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<p>Actually, I met a young man who was clearly troubled. He refused to take the SAT bc he refused to “go to school on a Saturday” (and this was not for religious reasons). He told me that one can get into just about any school one wants to attend. He took 2 courses at a private college in PA as a non-matriculating student. He received Bs or better (don’t recall what he said) and then he applied to the school and was formally admitted. He says that you can do this at any school.</p>

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shhh - don’t tell the OPs son about that. ;)</p>

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<p>What’s wrong with community college for this kid?</p>

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<p>As a college Dean of Students, I second Swimcatsmom. The biggest hurdle I face in dealing with freshmen who get into trouble - academically or socially - is to get them to draw the logical connection between choices and consequences. He’s chosen to ignore your offers and blow off the responsibilities he’d need to accept in order to be college-eligible. If the consequence of those choices is to get to go out-of-state to a college that suits his social preferences, then he’ll learn that there is no real connection (for him) between choices and consequences.</p>

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<p>First off, I would go ahead and let him take care of scheduling his SATs and ACTs. It isn’t rocket science- if he skips the tests or doesn’t sign up, oh well. Problem solved (at least for this year) and it won’t be your fault.</p>

<p>Secondly, I’d tell him I love him, and I promise that I will do everything I can to see him at an OOS school, after he gives the public school a semester or two. Make a concensual contract about grade point average for the first semester. If he makes it, let him go the second semester. If not, you just stop paying- he can go to CC. Or he can continue on his own dime.</p>

<p>If he does well after that year, everyone wins. That will mean he’s grown up and is ready for the OOS school. At that point, start applying. He might have to start over again as a freshman, but it would probably be worth it to everyone.</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone. This has been helpful.</p>

<p>To answer a few questions, my husband agreed to pay for college, and that agreement is in their decree. His ex hasn’t opposed the limits but she’s not a vocal supporter either. </p>

<p>SS did sign up for the SATs the first time, just forgot to go. I rec’d one of those parent emails from the college board last month confirming he signed up for the October SATs. </p>

<p>But, you know, that’s the part that breaks my heart. I hate that he lives in a world where it’s possible to forget his SATs. That college, college talk, college prep isn’t a part of his life. That he doesn’t have friends taking the June SATs. That he wasn’t told to get a good night sleep the night before. That no one woke him up that morning and made him his favorite breakfast and wished him luck. And drove him if he was nervous about it. </p>

<p>My gut tells me that as much as it breaks our heart to set a limitation that will cause even greater discord, that it’s the right thing to do.</p>

<p>I like the idea of articulating for him exactly what he needs to do to have the option to transfer, to reduce the “best efforts” to a tangible GPA.</p>

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<p>Well he would already have the consequences of being only accepted (more than likely) to 3rd or 4th tier schools. That is a consequence. Why make him stay instate? If he is given a semester and understands that he would need a 2.0 to stay (making academic progress), he would see natural consequences (consequences not imposed by you or his father). You won’t be the “bad guy”. There will be natural consequences of school rules and needing to make academic progress to stay. I guess this is the devil’s advocate position. I really don’t know what I would do if I were you. His lack of attendance is what would stop me from sending him out of state, but I might give him one or two semesters (with lectures about cost and opportunity you are offering) to prove that he can do it. I would not expect a high gpa, but if he would be learning, and really trying that would be okay with me. Perhaps he should start as part time student (working and taking one of two classes).</p>

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<p>OOS has always been the goal and so in-state really is the consequence. </p>

<p>Beginning 4 years ago, YSS said he wanted to go “out of state” “somewhere cold” “not Texas.” Like where, we said. Univ. of Alaska. So, we said great, go to school, do your homework, study for tests, and you’ll have that option or anywhere else. He did none of those things, and we said, as his junior year started that going out of state is slipping away from you (i.e. the door that was closing). He did “research” and concluded there were “plenty of schools with no standards” that he could get in to. His dad said we weren’t willing to spend the premium for him to go OOS, even if he could get in somewhere, unless he went to school, did his homework, etc. And he turned in his worse semester that fall. </p>

<p>So, the question is—was the consequence (instate v. OOS) so unrealistic and ill-advised that it justifies revisiting. . . .</p>

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<p>Hmm… I kind of think you should back off about the college selection part and simply let it be his job to get into college – since your husband has a divorce decree requiring him to pay and money isn’t the issue, I wouldn’t put financial/geographical limitations now – but your husband should make it clear that he he will pay for 4 years (8 semesters) – and then the money runs out. </p>

<p>I don’t think you have all that much to fear because your stepson probably is going to find that he is unable to get accepted anywhere. It is true that he might be able to get into some third-rate, private college in another state – but even if that happens I can’t see him lasting more than a semester if there isn’t a big change in attitude.</p>

<p>But I think that even that outcome is unlikely for a kid who “forgets” the SATs. He just isn’t going to be able to get things together to finish his applications without a whole lot of outside help and maneuvering, and it is that part I suggest that you leave to him.</p>

<p>Don’t make it be your husband’s “fault” that son is attending community college in Texas after he finishes high school (if he finishes high school – doesn’t Texas have some strict rules about school attendance?). If husband’s job is to finance, then he can tell the son that if he gets accepted somewhere out of state, his father will fund it as promised in the divorce decree – but it’s the son’s job to get in and stay in. </p>

<p>All financial aid awards, even need-based ones, require that the student maintain at least a passing GPA (like 2.0) and make adequate progress toward a degree (usually at least 12 units a semester). If the son gets into college, the money from his dad should be subject to the same rules – and of course your husband should insist on receiving grade reports each semester.</p>

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<p>I have looked at some of the earlier thread. Obviously, this whole situation has been counselled and therapied and lawyered to a fair-thee-well, all without much success.</p>

<p>A lot of us, including the OP, are making assumptions about what the father’s obligations are under the custody agreement. I think the family should consult its lawyer about that. Even if the agreement is sketchy and poorly drafted, I doubt in a Texas courtroom it means “Father must pay whatever tuition an out-of-state school willing to accept a total slacker and not kick him out may charge, for however long it wants to charge it.” On the other hand, it may not mean father can withhold payment altogether. And since this is not likely the first slacker child of divorce Texas has produced, I suspect there is some case law or practice rule-of-thumb gloss on what the rights are in this situation.</p>

<p>Knowing the legal entitlements doesn’t solve any problems, but it may affect how the family approaches a solution.</p>

<p>It sounds like the kid is probably capable of finding a college that will accept him and his tuition, and maybe even let him hang around for a good long while before not graduating him. Notwithstanding my earlier post, I wouldn’t want to rely entirely on his flunking out. He seems perfectly capable of doing whatever the minimum is in any situation.</p>

<p>I go back to saying: This isn’t about college at all. I’m sure the kid wants to grow up. He needs some help doing that. He needs to be excited by something, as excited as he is by computer games. Does he want to learn how to write them? There must be programs for that – out of state programs, even. Does he want to take his prowess into the real world? There for sure are “programs” for that, although I would hesitate to send my son in front of live ammunition. Wilderness survival courses like Outward Bound? College-at-Sea programs?</p>

<p>He wants to go somewhere, but what does he want to do when he gets there?</p>

<p>A lot of the suggestions here are perfectly reasonable, but are really only a repetition of a pattern that has repeated a lot already, and a recipe for further failure (but with the father’s obligations satisfied). That’s fine, maybe nothing better can be achieved. But it won’t turn the boy into a man, and it won’t give father and son a basis for a strong, loving relationship, and it will make everyone miserable for what may be the rest of their lives. I wouldn’t want that, unless it was a last resort. So I would really want to do something to change the pattern here. And that’s not setting him up for failure, either by imposing conditions he’s not going to meet or leaving him to languish and check out at a state college where only the purposeful thrive.</p>

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<p>has his father spoken to him? Have the parents spoken to each other? Those things should happen before the stepmother, no matter how loving and well-intentioned, sets limits of any sort.</p>