<p>If she's not a full time student will she have health insurance? I'm inclined to tell her to try out college for a semester.</p>
<p>I thought back to one more real life example. My D1 ended up with a choice of over-priced (for my budget) privates that wanted me to tap my HE (USC/NYU/etc) , but which I wisely chose not to or her one and only UC financial safety.</p>
<p>This was years ago and CC was barely begun, no curmudgeonly stories yet, so we did not wisely choose safeties; that one was only there because I insisted on one, every other school was private (dumb) and profile.</p>
<p>DD never wanted to go to that school and she never did have a good time. At the first Christmas she thought about transferring, I told her to do the apps herself, I do not know if she did, but when she brought it up again in year two, she had made a few bobbles so that she could not move up to the good schools, too many Bs and even a C, she no longer looked as amazing as her HS marks had looked. So, her transfer options shrank dramatically.</p>
<p>SHe stuck it out, but it was never a good place for her and she had some real struggles with the journey. I am not sure if she would have struggled anywhere, but she finished a few classes at a local public in our new state, not nearly as prestigious as her UC, and she loved it and is now in grad school there. She found physics much easier when the prof speaks English as a first language. She found profs who were not obsesses with research and teaching 1200 kids in Ochem. She also found her people in terms of the culture of the area (PNW v SoCal) and despite her inconsistent record she so impressed them she is now completing her masters and has gotten rave reviews from profs, first grad student chosen to substitute teach for them, amazing ratings of her TA ships, lots of reserach, lots of friends, lots of published and presented papers & posters. It's working out, but the road was rocky.</p>
<p>If I knew all then that I know now, I would have had her take a year off, do something meaningful and reapply to better matches. In our case, we did not know and I find it is really scary for kids to step out for a year, they feel like a failure compared to their friends, it would have to be for something that made a difference to them and maybe to others- not just treading water and doing busy work for $10/hour!</p>
<p>I'm with somemom. Perhaps the best thing is to call her bluff, and tell her that at this point, you're not going to pay for ANY college until she figures out what she wants to do. Then, insist she find something useful to do with herself, and if possible, a place to live on her own.</p>
<p>Don't beat yourself up about this. We can only lead our kids to water. We can't force them to drink until they are ready. :)</p>
<p>"She does not want to live at home. We are both ready for that :-) but then there's the question of where WOULD she live. </p>
<p>I made a couple of suggestions about what she might do with a year off, but she shot those down. Her idea was see the boyfriend and work full time. That just seems like a waste of time to me. AT one point she asked me what she should do, and I said that taking a year off wouldn't be a bad idea since she is so undecided. She got mad at me and said that she wished I would tell her to go to school 1. I am pretty sure that if I had said that, she would have said no. "</p>
<p>My advice would be to tell her that if she decides to take a gap year, she can live at home and follow the house rules for adults, and pay rent while working fulltime or she can work fulltime and find her own apartment.</p>
<p>S, 20, took a gap year after high school and was a fulltime Americorps volunteer. He said he wanted to live away from home -- even away from our city -- but he didn't do anything to achieve either of those things. He applied only for an Americorps job in our city, and even when I told him about a housesitting opportunity that would require him to pay no rent, just take care of a cat and the owners' lawn, he never followed up on that.</p>
<p>He seemed very happy living at home, and was a joy to have around. </p>
<p>I think he felt he wasn't ready for college yet, nor was he ready to leave home, so he worked things out so he got to stay home for an extra year. After that, he went off to college, and excelled, enjoying the academics, ECs, and social life of college while keeping his grades up.</p>
<p>I don't think that the mom should make the D's choice for her, but should kindly let the D know that if she doesn't go to college this coming school year, she'd be welcome to live at home while working fulltime, and paying a reasonable rent and following the house rules for adults. "Reasonable rent" means paying what she'd pay for similar accommodations elsewhere.</p>
<p>If you don't charge rent, your D may get a very unrealistic idea about the style of living she could enjoy in a low paying job that doesn't require a college degree.</p>
<p>If I could offer a slight variation on Northstarmom's excellent advice:</p>
<p>I imagine that the understanding about a gap year would be that D intends to go to college in Fall 2009. Given that, if D lives at home, do collect rent from her, but perhaps consider telling her that you are applying that rent to her college fund. </p>
<p>With this approach, D is keeping college in mind, saving up for it, working towards it. (If it turns out that D never does go to college, she does not get that rental money back).</p>
<p>What's really striking in this thread is the excellent advice taking two different approaches--one to gently push toward college, the other to push toward a gap year. With both alternatives, a clear plan as to what's expected by the student is also key.</p>
<p>I think it reminds us that it really helps to consider just YOUR kid and trust your gut. I think with mine, I knew in my heart it was a little cold feet and I would have pushed for college, you know, give one semester a try.</p>
<p>But if you believe your D really might be better off with a gap year, then the suggestions given here about how to approach the guidelines are excellent.</p>
<p>We can't know your child, but I do believe that you've been given some very insightful points of view to use, once you consider what your heart is telling you about HER. </p>
<p>I'm sorry you both are struggling with this. Please know that you will come through it and will both feel better once the decision is made. It's the period of indecision that can be so terribly difficult.</p>
<p>Please continue to keep us posted.....</p>
<p>Heron -- I have nothing to add to the above but hugs and good wishes!</p>
<p>Thank you all so much for your support and kindness and input. So helpful in many different ways. Some of my recent thoughts:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>I agree that it isn't the boyfriend. I think the boyfriend was the tipping point.</p></li>
<li><p>An interim year doesn't have to be complicated. </p></li>
<li><p>Living in an apartment is a fine idea, but I doubt it's going to be doable. Rent, food, transportation (she doesn't have a car), etc. It occurs to me that she might be able to rent a room in a house, however, something simple, and still away from home. But she also has two choices of "home," with her father and with me, in very different locations but close to the same city. </p></li>
<li><p>There are conditions I would impose on the year off. I won't go into the specifics, but it helped me to make a list of what I would require. </p></li>
<li><p>I think it's time to stop forcing the shoe (school 1) onto the foot (so to speak). She wants to go to college, and she wants to go now. But it looks like she doesn't want to go THERE. Or doesn't want to to there NOW. </p></li>
<li><p>With the number of people who would encourage her in one direction or another and the number who would let her decide for herself, I feel better about being confused! This has helped me accept what a difficult place I am in. Both positions make a lot of sense. </p></li>
<li><p>I think the year off makes the most sense. I think she needs it, but doesn't want it. I think that's why this decision has her so paralyzed. If the school was closer, I think she'd be okay about taking the risk, but the distance makes the risk too risky. </p></li>
<li><p>BUT, I am leaning more and more towards letting her have ownership of this decision. She'll either decide directly or by default. This is a time for her to feel empowered. That's what I'm going to tell her, and that's what I'm going to encourage. Empowerment is good. It doesn't especially matter what she empowers herself to do. It's not like either choice is horrible. I'm going to tell her that she has the power and wisdom to make this choice. If I make the decision for her I feel that I'm enabling her powerlessness. She doesn't need to make a perfect choice. But she needs to make A choice. (Don't hold me to this! Easier said than done! Also it might not work.)</p></li>
</ul>
<p>I'll keep you up to date as this goes on. Thank you again for your kind words and your wisdom and experience. I am truly grateful.</p>
<p>"Neither choice is horrible" -- exactly right. A really good thing to emphasize.</p>
<p>And her choices are not mutually exclusive; they are only mutually exclusive in time. If after a semester, she decides on a gap year, well, then, she can still do that. If after a gap few months (rather than year), she wants to start college, that's still an option.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I would do this. </p>
<p>1.Write the check for the college, put it in an envelope and give it to your daughter, and at the same time, have prepared the tuition insurance. Make the check out for the absolute minimum you can. And write that if she goes, she is expected to stay through at least the first semester.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Create a list of questions, or whatever that need to be answered if she is staying at home- work, schooling, resume, rent, etc. Not an "angry" list- (I have made those), just a realistic list of decisions that need to be made, house rules, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Hand both to daughter, with the explanation that it is now literally in her hands, and that either choice is fine, but she needs to be aware of the benefits and results of either choice. That you love her, understand her confusion (maybe even print out bits and parts of this thread), and that neither choice needs to be permenant, but what ever choice she DOES make, requires that she throw herself with all the enthusiasm she can muster, and really go for the gap year or the college.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I will never forgot on event in my daughter's life- she had a big soccer tournement, and she burnt her wrist about an hour before she needed to head to game. I ran and got all the medical stuff, and I know it hurt. She was afraid of playing. My husband told her this- its fine if you don't play, you burnt yourself, and it wil hurt when if it gets banged. No one will be mad if you don't play. But she really wanted to play. So he told her, okay, if you play, great, but you need to go in with all your usual gusto- if it gets banged, yell, go OWWWWW, but move on. Sure its not perfect, but if you don't play, don't feel sorry for yourself, instead cheer your teammates on, warm up with them, and give them all you can. She ended up playing and yeah it hurt, but she didn't give up. </p>
<p>I am not saying her playing was the going to college, it could be taking the gap year. I am just saying that with either choice, she needs to give it her all, not look back, but forward and have a plan.</p>
<p>It is amazing what having something tangible in her hand- the envelope and the list can do. I would also help check out local schools to see what kind of night classes, etc she could take, just to keep her fresh when it comes to studying. </p>
<p>I would also strongly suggest that she do nothing to burn any bridges- you know, letting the school know as soon as she does, and be proactive in that communication.</p>
<p>I would also take a two day break from talking about it after I gave her the paperwork. Tell her that you both need to step back, catch your breath, and think about the different path she may be taking. Tell your friends and relatives NOT to ask about it either. Having some silence on the topic ( you do have some time) can do wonders. You can do some research and such on your own during the "quiet" time, or talk to friends, etc., but in the home, let it go for a couple of days. If you are anything like me, you "loop" the conversations- saying the same things in circles and getting no where.</p>
<p>Good luck and remember that either decision, so long as D tries, will be okay.</p>
<p>I would put the decision in her lap and give her three sessions with a therapist who can help her decide. When my son was struggling with a life changing decision last year, he went to a therapist who was able to help him objectively assess his needs and wants without him worrying about what his parents wanted. It really helped to talk it out with a stranger who had no interest in the outcome other than to have her client feel satisfied with the decision making process. I saw some of the pro and con lists she had him do (after the fact) and saw that she was doing exactly what I would have done. He needed some guidance, but not from us. Also, a therapist really holds the client accountable for what they say they want/don't want. Three hours should do it.</p>
<p>just a quick note of encouragement- Son got into several good schools and decided to go to none. Instead, stayed home to be with a girlfriend and maybe do some classes at a community college. It took about 3 months to braek up with the girl friend and about the same amount of time living on his own to realize he really wanted (needed) his college education. Worked a couple years, applied to a totally different school, put himself through and is now graduated and working. Even though at the time I was distraught, it seemed to work out for the best - he worked hard and did well once he got there. It seems some kids need to do things the hard way...</p>
<p>I have a friend whose daughter went to a faraway school. She stuck it out- wrong crowd, other issues, etc.- for two years. She told her mom she just can't go back. There are some issues about a relative who was helping to pay for college being disappointed, etc. And mom was very nervous about her daughter not going back and would she really follow through here with classes, figuring out about transferring credits, work, moving back in with other sister in house, sharing car and all the other complications.</p>
<p>As she sees her daughter working two jobs, doing the reserouce about transferring credits, meeting with the transfer counselor at the local CC, and being very pleasant around the house, meeting new people and introducing them to her parents, etc., and having the decision finally made, she is happy for the calmness that has taken over the house and her daughter. </p>
<p>If she hadn't seen her daughter being as proactive as she was, she would be much more worried about the not going back. Her daughter even took a class this summer.</p>
<p>She has told her daughter that there wil be house rules, and the like, and so far, its been okay. A few bumps, but nothing like it has been in the past.</p>
<p>As I told her, different paths sometimes take time to adjust to, but they aren't the "wrong" path. My concern was the focus on the bf, and be prepared for that to be "awkward" if they do breakup as he might have been the tipping point, but that is just life- it aint' neat. But it is rare the person who doesn't have some obstacles in life. </p>
<p>I know with my second D, her path very likely wil be less "tradtional" than her older sister's.</p>