<p>There is no need to push Ivies if he likes the schools on his list and his list already includes a few very selective schools. However, the schools on his list as a whole are widely different. If he likes the vibe of Brandeis, Wesleyan and Hampshire, I can’t see how he’d really like WPI. Plus if he wants to continue doing music and theater, even as an extracurricular, WPI doesn’t seem like the best option. Northeastern also seems way different than the schools he favors. I also agree with others that his safeties seem tacked on because they are state U’s (nothing wrong with state U’s of course). But I’m not sure these are safeties that would appeal to him in the way that the other schools do and think finding at least a safety that has more in common with his top schools would be a better idea. What about Skidmore? Other possible safeties could be Goucher, Clark, or Muhlenberg.</p>
<p>That said, I would see if you could interest him in revisiting Brown, and not because it is an Ivy but because it seems to really fit what he appears to be seeking. It is not as if you are randomly suggesting he applies to five Ivies now. As well, he might like Bard, Vassar, Sarah Lawrence, Oberlin, Kenyon, Conn College, or Tufts. While only Brown is an Ivy, the others are quite selective and it may be nice to add to the more selective end of his list beyond Wesleyan and Brandeis.</p>
<p>Harvard gives a substantial preference to kids from Massachusetts public high schools and favors kids from Boston and Cambridge public high schools even more. However, that preference works best when students apply early action. Now, H may not be the best school for him but if it were my kid, I’d at least talk to him about applying. If he doesn’t want to…then don’t. But waiting until later to add it to the list reduces his odds of getting in substantially. </p>
<p>So the name “might matter to others” but you already know darned well that Wesleyan worked out well for your husband re: grad school? And served him well in his career, in addn to Caltech. I think you’re anticipating some sort of remorse next spring- and your son isn’t. What matters in the end is where he can thrive and move forward, not name. </p>
<p>Lots of “should we push” and “I made my child” and “I let my child turn down” here. </p>
<p>I don’t get it. </p>
<p>With my D’s support, I helped her put together a small list a safeties/ matches/ reaches, all to her satisfaction, and helped arrange visits. Had I tried to “push” or “make” or “let” her do anything beyond this… She made it very clear, not so much in words as in attitude, that the ultimate decision was up to her (within consideration of cost, of course). She made it clear that this was a matter of respect. I’m convinced that if I’d given her a sense in the slightest that there was reason to second guess or doubt or think less of her school of choice, her experience there would have been tainted with an undertone of grievance, grudgingness, dissatisfaction. Certainly a parent should intervene if a child, for whatever reason–apathy, defiance, time constraints–is truly making uninformed decisions. But in this case? “Push” an Ivy for the sake of name-brand cachet alone, for some unforeseen future advantage that’s supposed to far exceed the advantage of a degree from an already stellar school that is the son’s first choice? </p>
<p>The process our kids go through in putting together a college list reveals as much about their character and potential as college attendance itself. The OPs son has shown incredible maturity and self-awareness. I’m not really sure why the OP cares what other parents think on the matter. He/ She seems to agree with son’s reasoning and answers his/ her own question at the end. Too much listening in on the Ivy echo-chamber. </p>
<p>I am a parent now, but when I was young my mother basically made me apply to two Ivies when I knew I wanted Wellesley. I resented it a lot and didn’t do my best on the applications. Needless, to say I didn’t get in. However, part of the reason I didn’t want to apply was because I thought the odds of acceptance were terrible. </p>
<p>My thinking is that pushing for a visit is fine, but I wouldn’t push my child to apply. There are a lot of unhappy kids at the wrong institutions (sadly I know two who hate their Ivies; but I bet every school has unhappy students). Sounds like your son has a great sense of self and is clear on where he would have a good experience. </p>
<p>He does sound awesome!!! Best of luck with the whole process.</p>
<p>I should probably clarify about the safeties. i consider Northeastern and WPI to be his safeties, but his HS guidance office requires that each student apply to at least one state college or university. He was only going to choose UMass Lowell because he knows both computer science and music majors who are very happy there. DH and I asked him to put UMass Amherst if he had to have a state U because we think it’s the best of the UMass campuses.
Perhaps “push” was the wrong word and I should have said encourage. We have no intention of trying to convince him to go to a school he doesn’t like. However, I think it might be worthwhile to try to get him to look at these other schools just to be thorough and cover all the bases. @gondalineNJ - I’m not concerned about what other parents think. The comment about “name matters” referred to future employers, graduate schools, etc. You are correct, however, that the primary reason I’m questioning is all the Ivy buzz here on CC that makes me worry that he might be arbitrarily closing off valuable opportunities. My gut says no - he knows what he’s doing and we’ve given him honest advice.</p>
<p>He’s got a nice list. If its really that important to push for a “name” school, go visit and see if he likes it. Remember that acceptances are in the single digits, so even though his stats are in range, so are many, many otherr students.</p>
<p>We’ve been through this process twice with two kids and I can tell you the favorites, lists of schools, even size/location preference tended to change from junior year to spring of senior year (at which point the ship has sailed). If he knows what he wants to study - and is sure about this, or as sure as a 17 or 18 year old can be, than that should be your primary driver. I think you should encourage him to add one or two more ‘reach’ schools to his list. He’s got great stats - and might actually get more $$$ from some of them. If $$$ is a major issue, some of the schools you mentioned do offer a number of full rides, too. Did he apply for the BU Trustees Scholarship? I believe Northeastern has some full rides but you can’t apply directly for them. Also to consider: does he have to apply to a specific college at the University (i.e. Engineering, Business, etc.) - or simply to the school in general. I can tell you we were glad to have a variety of choices for each child when April rolled around - although it did make deciding more difficult. </p>
<p>@4Gulls - I think you’ve really hit on our thought process/concerns here. As is obvious from his inclusion of small LACs and large engineering schools, he really hasn’t really pinned down his interests and decided what he wants to do with his life - he’s only 17. I want him to keep all his options open. Yes, he’s applied for the BU Trustees scholarship, and we know there’s other merit money as well. I expect that he will be courted heavily by both Northeastern and WPI, which should result in some great offers. Final cost will only be a factor if it comes down to a choice between schools he loves, even if one offers him a full ride.</p>
<p>I think encouraging him is fine-nice to have options come springtime, as 4Gulls mentioned. Sounds like your S is a very mature and strong student-congrats.
A boy I know was val of a small private high school and was accepted to Harvard and a small Christian college near Boston. He chose the Christian college-had always wanted to go there. He was first in his class at college, met his future wife and is at Harvard for grad school now. Worked out fine for him. </p>
<p>Yeah, I pushed it with one, and he got in. Still wouldn’t go. But sometimes the child in the fall of senior year, has changed and become more of an adult in the spring of that same year and things have shifted. I gave it a go, and though mine did not change his mind, some kids might have.</p>
<p>My son had as perfect of a college experience possible, loved it at his choice of school, and I have to say it was a better fit for him than what the Ivy would have been.</p>
<p>My D (who has the same kid of stats as your kid) has no interest in applying to the ivy where she is a legacy, or to the one where she is a faculty child. And we are not encouraging her to do so. Fit really does trump prestige, when you are talking about comparing schools that are all strong schools. The education at Wesleyan and Brandeis is top notch. And as a graduate of Brandeis myself, I can point to several fellow alums who are very successful in their post-graduate life. </p>
<p>Also, “push” is a subjective word. You mean like talk kid into sending out such an app? Parents do that always do that with some favorite school. Not a big deal. Where the catch is, lies in keeping mouth shut and not pushing if kid should get accepted and still not want to go there I had a tough time with that with my son. Giving your kid some extra options in case his views change between fall and spring is one thing, pushing him into a school he really doesn’t want to attend, a whole other. </p>
<p>I did not read the whole thread, so it is not clear what is planned for the future.
Name of UG may be relevant or not so much depending on the major intended. Also, it depends a lot on apersonal desire of a future college kid. I do not knwo how anybody outside of family can make any suggestions. Frankly, we did not listen to anybody, including councelor. Also, we are working on trying to convince my GrandD. (HS sophomore ) NOT to apply to Ivy’s, but our efforts may not be successful at the end. She is at test-in NYC HS where everybody wants to attend at Ivys. As a complete opposite, my D. coming from the rigorous private HS did not care at all for any Ivy / Elite and currently as a 4th year Med. Student is still holding an opinion that she went to the UG that matched her the best (in-state public in OH).
BTW, both D. and GrandD are straight As students with very similar personalities, huge range of interests.But while D. values her own opinion much more than the advice from others, GrandD. is a bit more on a listenning side.<br>
Coincidently, D. was also into swimming and several colleges were pusuing her for that, which again, she did not care. Ended up not swimming at college for the lack of time. Her club team records (about 15 of them) are still there and keep inspiring younger girls.<br>
As I said, consider future major and personal desire and financial side (if important) and let them be where they want to be.</p>
<p>I personally would not overly encourage a child to apply to a school that he or she doesn’t have interest in applying to. There were schools I liked for my own D, and she did not want to attend after visiting, researching etc. They were off the list then. It wasn’t as if her list was short on schools. Her ED pick was not H or my top choice for her, but that’s where she wanted, and that’s where she went. </p>
<p>A lot of people throw their hat in the ring for HYP or whatever, thinking that in the admissions game, they might just get accepted. With the single digit acceptance rate for such schools, unless I had an olympic athlete, academic equivalent, or perhaps famous actor or child of POTUS, I would not push. Over 90% will not get in, and if it wasn’t the first choice anyway, I am not sure what the point of an application is anyway. </p>
<p>In reply #10, you mentioned him being interested in majoring in math. Is he undecided between math and CS?</p>
<p>UMass Amherst is perfectly good for CS. If you are ranking prestige conscious, it is probably ranked higher for CS than most of the private schools you mentioned.</p>
<p>While it’s an unusual list, it looks like your son thought about himself and what he wants. Kudos to him for not falling into the name game! If those are the schools he wants, I don’t think he needs to apply to Ivies “just because they’re there.” I’m more impressed with your son than others who list HYPSM almost reflexively because they have high stats.</p>
<p>I basically agree with what most others are saying–Wesleyan (and the other top choices) will open plenty of doors. However, I do know that sometimes teenagers don’t really have a well-thought-out reason for decisions, and that low-pressure discussions with them can sometimes cause them to broaden their perspectives a bit. You do want to be sure that his reluctance to apply to more selective colleges isn’t just because he’s afraid of being rejected (and maybe that you’d be disappointed if he’s rejected). You might suggest some more visits–Yale is pretty great for kids interested in drama, for example. Don’t push, but ask questions.</p>