<p>I would crack the veneer of some of these schools and explore with him a deeper level of information (if you have not already). Look into the tradition of Hasty Pudding- maybe put a few “open to the community” Harvard events on the calendar-maybe a lecture or visiting performer. Describe the irreverent culture and ‘open curriculum’ at Brown, and maybe any benefits to cross-enrollment at RISD. I would not push any schools, but simply guide his investigations to the next level. Even if he adds no more to the list, it may inform his thought process when the acceptances come pouring in in the Spring. The ‘vibe’ is great, but the more he can isolate where the vibe is from and fit his path to align with it, the happier he can be!</p>
<p>BTW, help me out here, I am just starting to understand the ‘vibe’ of various schools- if being near a large city were not on OP’s list, would people also be suggesting Dartmouth?</p>
<p>These are great choices to have, and I can tell that you do appreciate that.</p>
<p>I have a nephew who was a very intellectual young man who was trying to choose between some top LAC’s when he unexpectedly got into an Ivy he had applied to. He decided he couldn’t pass up the Ivy and enrolled there even though he was lukewarm about it, and he came to hate it later. He graduated in four years and is doing well in his career now, but he still regrets that choice. Apparently, an Ivy can have its own gravitational field (often generated by peer or family pressure) and can pull a kid in once accepted even if he is not that keen on it.</p>
<p>I went to Brandeis and one of my roommates went on to get her MBA at Harvard. There are many reasons to love Brandeis, and if he excels there he will do fine in life.</p>
<p>Yes, he’s undecided about the math/computer science thing. He’s always loved math and didn’t start thinking about computer science until very recently when he taught himself some programming for an independent project he was doing at school. I would have to say that he’s undecided overall. He has a lot of interests, and as he told me last year, “I always try to find something I like about each of my classes, even if it wasn’t my first choice.” This is why I think LACs are much better choices for him than engineering schools. I think he could be good at anything he tries, but he freely admits that he just doesn’t have enough experience in anything to know what he wants to do for the rest of his life. I’d just like him to look at a few more options. I can honestly say I would be perfectly happy if he chose Brandeis even if he got into Harvard (or Brown, or whatever). We won’t push him to attend a particular school, but I think it’s reasonable to encourage him to look a bit more. Interestingly enough, even though he always says math when asked about his interests, he got the Brown University Book Award for “excellence in spoken and written communication.” So, who knows, he could decide to be an English major…</p>
<p>@Awesomekidsmom. I think your son is being reasonable. He is satisficing with some excellent colleges on his list. I have a son who was not interested in visiting colleges – and indeed made no pre-application visits, though he had been to many college campuses with his debate team. He settled on a small set of colleges including the in-state landmark (UMich) and the close-by state university (MSU), my alma mater (Reed), UChicago, and a couple other LAC’s (Carleton, Williams). He added a single “lottery pick,” which he also didn’t visit. In the end, he didn’t get into the lottery pick but got into all of the others, and he wasn’t disappointed. He chose UChicago because of two main factors: intellectual atmosphere, location in big city with major league sports! His intended major didn’t matter to his selection, as it generally doesn’t to most students who apply to excellent comprehensive universities or LAC’s. </p>
<p>I often liken the value of Ivy prestige to the value of a paper bill. It only has real value if you spend it. Your son sounds like someone who, if he had that bill, would keep it in his pocket and never spend it.</p>
<p>On the whole, he sounds very self-aware and self-directed. And judging by his top school choices, he is actively seeking schools that appeal to others like him. I wouldn’t be pushing him toward anything given the admirable job he is doing of finding good fits for himself.</p>
<p>The one thing I might do is suggest some additional options to broaden the list. Bard, Lawrence University, and Oberlin all have fine conservatories with double-degree programs and have some of that “quirky kid” flavor. Rice is also a great option for a math/music major, and their “marching” band (which doesn’t actually march) is arguably the quirkiest in the land. </p>
<p>Some of these options are a little further afield than he wants to look, but he seems so driven by his own priorities that it wouldn’t surprise me if he enlarged his radius to include one of these schools if he deems it a good fit.</p>
<p>I do not know aout math, but absolutely any place is fine for CS. I have been in a field for over 30 years, love the jobs, had many in very different industries, on a very different platforms, different sizes of departments, compensation varies widely also. Opportunities are endless, job is very exciting, UG name completely does not matter, mine was paid by several employers after I got a job. The best training came from the CC actually, the rest was basically just for a paper, which is very handy as some places do not hire unless you have a 4 y degree and most were actullay impressed with my MBA, which is totally 100% irrelevant to my job. I never went beyond my local college, one will need to learn at every place of employment, the more experience you have, the more independed you get, and that is what employers are looking for, ability to self learn, adjust to any environment. Nobody ever cared for the name of my UG, but some liked to see a high GPA, even after close to 25 years of experience, it is almost funny…</p>
<p>Again, I don’t think it is a matter of going Ivy, as it is a matter of finding which schools fit his criteria. The fact that he likes Wesleyan so much makes me think he should explore a few schools like it. And in the case of a school like Brown, with an open curriculum, he can explore so many things. They also have CS. Does Brandeis or Wes even offer CS? I should check but didn’t have time. Brandeis and Wes are two great schools and he likes them and has a decent shot at both. But it would be nice to have a few options come spring on that end of his list, since he is still evolving in terms of his selection criteria. That would be the reason to explore a few more very selective schools. I would throw Brown into that mix, but along with others as the emphasis is not on Ivy. </p>
<p>Edit, I see that Brandeis has CS, but Wesleyan doesn’t. If he has varied interests he wants to explore and CS is one of them, and Wesleyan doesn’t offer it, that is another reason to throw a few others in the mix on the very selective end of his list. I will reiterate my suggestion of Vassar as it has open curriculum and also has a CS major in case he goes in that direction. And again, Tufts!</p>
<p>It may be a little late in the game. I only say this because I am a firm believer in the value of the visit. I think that the value of the visit, however comes from comparison and analysis of the attributes of different schools. That being said, my D1 is at a school that we didn’t visit before applying. From our research though, it had a lot of qualities that he was looking for. After he was accepted we went and he fell in love with it. </p>
<p>My point is that if you don’t mind dropping the *0 bucks or so for the application fee and extra score report, there is nothing wrong with applying to schools that are still only possibilities. As a parent it is our job to guide our kids, If that means giving them more options, I say go for it. I don’t think that it is “pushing” them. My guess is that if you never “pushed” him he wouldn’t be in the drivers seat the way he is now.</p>
<p>A couple of other thoughts. If finances are an issue, then you may want to keep in mind that Northeastern and BU will offer money. I don’t know about the others. I would also inquire with schools on the list about declaring a major. Some schools encourage “undeclared” and that might fit the bill in your case.</p>
<p>I also have to give my two cents on the “prestige” discussion. The Boston Museum of Fine Arts is a “prestigious” Museum. (I chose this one because of your geography. I could also use the Metropolitan Museum of art or the National Gallery). If I want to go see really impressive art in Boston that is a great place to start. that does not mean that there are no other places in or near Boston to see great art. I think, however, that it s ridiculous to imply that if you go to The Boston Museum of Fine Arts you are only going for the “prestige.” Or as Yogi Berra said “Nobody goes there anymore, Its too crowded.” ie, anyone who says don’t apply to Harvard because people only apply there for the name are missing the intrinsic value of a Harvard education. </p>
<p>I guess what I am saying is that, if you think Harvard might be a good fit, then send in an application and see what happens. It won’t hurt him and if he gets in, he can still say no.</p>
<p>It is your job as a parent to do what you think is best.</p>
<p>He sounds like a great kid. I think it is fair to raise the issue of applying to an Ivy, but if he shoots you down, let it be. He knows what he is looking for. Maybe he doesn’t want a too big school or a too competitive school (academically or otherwise). Maybe he wants the freedom to take a variety of different courses and experiment with his future path (Brandeis allows this). </p>
<p>I struggled with older S’s choices, too. He ended up at a place I wouldn’t have predicted for him, but is so completely happy I can’t imagine him anywhere else. </p>
<p>I firmly believe in keeping one’s options open, so I’d wonder why he rejected the notion of Yale, especially, without having visited. Maybe he has heard too many kids talking about the competition to get in and just doesn’t want to deal with that scene, or he doesn’t like the kids he knows who have gone. That said, with Wes on his list I think he has a reachy enough school.</p>
<p>Like soozievt, I am more concerned about the rest of his list, although I would be surprised if he didn’t get into Hampshire and Brandeis. Seems to me that there are a lot of other places he would like more than WPI, for example. soozievt listed a lot of them. Oberlin, Bard, Williams…although Williams is one of the “reach for everyone” places because of its size. </p>
<p>I don’t think one should just randomly push for the ivies, but I keep feeling like this particular kid might like Brown. at least visit and let him see what he thinks if he wants. Still, even if he isn’t interested, it’s not like he’s choosing uninteresting schools. I agree, too, with whoever said you might put a little more effort into the safeties. There are smaller options that “might” be interesting to him, ie… Suny Genesseo, etc… </p>
<p>I worry that sometimes kids refuse to apply to colleges out of some reverse snobbism. For both my kids I asked them to apply to one college they weren’t sure they wanted. By April senior year, for each kid that college was their second choice. I didn’t make them attend, but I did think that with a little more experience and my knowledge of them, there were good reasons for those colleges to be on their list.</p>
<p>If CS is of real interest, do look at CM. Top notch. I truly think at this stage of the game, keep your options open. You don’t want to go nuts applying to a ridiculous number of schools, but you do want to have choices come April. I will say that I think 2 safeties is probably sufficient. When we went through it, we probably had a few too many safeties (but I’d swallowed all the kool-aid about how impossible it was to get in anywhere by then). I know with our two the ‘final 3’ in each case were NOT schools I would have necessarily predicted end of junior year - or even beginning of senior year. Both ‘final 3’ were all very different from each other. In my son’s case, as soon as he got in to one top school EA in Dec, others (including a couple of ivies) fell of the list because he knew he wouldn’t pick over this school. And yet there were more twists and turns to the story after that. My daughter was very ambivalent until the end. Ultimately $$$ played a big role in the decision - and if, for whatever reason, the ‘fit’ isn’t right … there’s always transferring! </p>
<p>While we’re on the subject of other schools, I want to put in a big plug for Carleton. A great school for very intelligent kids who prefer a bit of quirkiness! And it is close to Minneapolis-St. Paul, which is a cool area. </p>
<p>I think there are programs where Ivy name is helpful (especially for grad school). But for CS/Engineering, usually not much of a factor with employers. </p>
<p>Why waste his time? So he can say he got in? People get so hot and heavy for the Ivies and USNews top schools. Why? They’re definitely impressive. $60,000 plus a year is definitely impressive. If you get it all paid for, great! But if you have to foot a significant portion of the bill, you ought to consider what the lesson is. If it is to impress people and have them oooooo and aaaaaaah, Ivies or other ‘Reaches’ are great. If it is to teach responsible adulthood and return on investment, there are plenty of schools that will help maximize that and the Ivies are kind of low on that list. Originally, our son had a few of the impressive schools on his list and they’ve dropped like flies because the reality of the ROI wouldn’t be worth it. Applications are almost ready to be sent, fees waived 'cuz he’s a nice kid or something, but no real desire to hit the submit buttons. It seems that the focus has shifted to schools that will give the most bang for the proverbial no-need based buck – much to our delight. Not private. Not elitist. And most definitely offering a top-notch and very well rounded experience. </p>
<p>Without having actual statistics to cite, I’m pretty sure that the Ivy and other Selective schools are not producing the majority of mid- to top- level executives running companies or of people heading up research labs, etc. Sure, some Ivy grads are probably running Fortune 100’s but the majority will be from a broad selection of institutions. Also, consider that maybe being a smart fish in a average pond sets one up for some additional successes and opportunities (which must be earned), whereas being the smart fish in the smart pond just keeps everything cutthroat. Leave the cutthroat for later. There’ll be plenty of time – say about 50 years. At our house, we always go back to – what’s the goal??? Each person will answer that differently. In our case, apply to schools that you really honestly would attend, and in that scope, are also able to afford. And schools he wouldn’t go to or we wouldn’t pay for? Don’t waste their time, but more importantly don’t waste his/ours.</p>
<p>Just my two $$. Is there even a key for cents anymore??? </p>
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