<p>D2 was getting picked on a little school bus after D1 graduated to high school. When I found out, next day I walked her up to the bus and had a chat with the bus driver. I said very loudly to the driver so every kid could hear me, “It appears someone is not being nice to D2. I would like you to keep an eye on her. If I hear her complain again, I am going to want to know who is being mean and that kid is going to be really sorry. Ok?” D2 had a very uneventful year after my little talk.</p>
<p>S and I got along MUCH better once I accidentally learned a trick. When he’d start in on something that was upsetting him, I’d ask him to clarify whether he wanted ME or H to DO anything about it or was just venting, so we could know which approach to be using in listening to his issues. When he was “just venting,” I could be sympathetic and just listen to him without trying to help formulate a plan to change anything. If he wanted a solution, we had to figure out whether he wanted to solve the issue alone or wanted me and/or H to have any role in the solution.</p>
<p>It was good to figure all of this out and avoid the stress when I was trying to “solve” and all S wanted to do was vent and let it go. Our relationship improved a great deal from this small change of my frame of reference. As a parent, I often shifted into “solving mode” when that wasn’t what our kids wanted. S is very independent and a great problem solver in his own right. Am so glad he is able to solve his own issues, often better than I ever could! (For some reason, never had the same issues with D–I think she and I are more on the same wavelength and she is clear when she’s venting vs. problem-solving.)</p>
<p>^^^^
HImom, I am going to try what you describe. 99% of the arguments with my children seem to arise when they come to me with an issue. Naturally, I shift into “solving mode”, and to my surprise, somehow the conversation always turns hostile. I assume since they are coming to me, they would like some guidance. After reading your post I am thinking perhaps that is not the case.</p>
<p>I confess it wasn’t until S was in HS for a while before I finally realized that he really wanted a sympathetic sounding board, NOT answers. He had plenty of answers–some that I had never considered. </p>
<p>I have this same problem with H. I sometimes am just venting and he wants to problem solve. I have to make it clear to him that I am just venting and have him let me vent a bit. I generally know what the problem and potential solutions are, just need a bit of sympathy sometimes.</p>
<p>While "Snow Plow Parents and “Helicopter Parents” can be annoying, the biggest problem is the clueless and uninvolved parents.</p>
<p>How do so many parents not know who their child’s boyfriend or girlfriend is or whether they drink, or how their grades are this term, or who their friends are?</p>
<p>These critiques of over involved parents seem to be “feel good” pieces for the clueless parents who do nothing, and know nothing. When you ask whether they are concerned about what is going on, they say, “I am teaching them to be independent.” They have found the perfect rationale for their self-centered laziness. </p>
<p>The behaviors illustrated in this piece are a problem, but it has to be a small percentage of the population. </p>
<p>Why not focus on all of the parents who are utterly failing to guide and support their children develop the talents that they have? America wastes incredible amounts of talent because the parents are not involved at all. That is what is destroying this country.</p>
<p>I don’t know who my kids are casually dating. I might hear about it after the fact. When someone is serious, I’m sure I’ll know about it.</p>
<p>As to whether they drink – do you think any kid tells his / her parent the truth about this? “Hi Mom, I was wasted this weekend?” Please.</p>
<p>As for grades, I know general ballparks, but I really couldn’t tell you that Kid A got an A in this class and a B in this one. I’m confident they work hard; it’s just not my job to micromanage this any more.</p>
<p>Much2learn, what do you suggest the rest of us do about “clueless and uninvolved parents”? We all know them, obviously (and of course they come in all shapes, sizes, and SES).</p>
<p>I do agree that all children deserve parents who love and support them. But I also agree with Pizzagirl that that does not mean micromanaging their lives.</p>
<p>I believe that the most important things a parent can do is to show their kids that they are interested in them, take time to maintain a relationship with each child, encourage them to come to you with problems instead of hiding them, and attend conferences at school.</p>
<p>I do not think that is micromanaging. I think “micro managing” is like “teaching them to be independent.” Both are often used by parents who are oblivious to label and criticize the parents who are trying, and to concurrently rationalize their own lack of effort and involvement.</p>
<p>I don’t know how old your kids are or if they are boys or girls but I can promise you that a parent can show their kids that they are interested, and encourage them to come to you with problems and attend school conferences and STILL not know everything that is going on with them.</p>
<p>Do you really think that teenagers don’t conceal things from their very loving and involved parents? Many kids are very good at making sure their parents know about all the “good stuff” while doing things (drinking, reckless driving, unsuitable friends) their parents would be horrified to know.</p>
<p>Sorry but I think that parents who think that they are fully informed about all corners of their kids’ lives are living in a fools paradise. I’ve seen too many truly great parents blindsided by things their perfect-seeming teens have gotten up to. They only find out when they get caught.</p>
<p>No, some of us really do know everything. That doesn’t mean only good things. I’m always surprised by how little some parents seem to know about what’s going on with their high schoolers. I remember my D explaining to me that we were weird, most kids don’t talk to their parents. It’s very sad, really.</p>
<p>Obviously, there’s a whole spectrum of behaviors, so it can be difficult to classify any particular parent as one thing or another - I’m sure most of us have been the worst “snowplow” parents at one time, while oblivious and clueless another. </p>
<p>Making up such labels and laughing at the absurdities some people engage in can be fun; but you can’t take it too seriously - though, the underlying message is probably a good one - anytime you intervene for you child, you should stop and consider whether it would better to let them solve the problem themselves. As people have noted, people often just want to vent; they’re not looking for you to provide the solution - and that’s not just your own children, but co-workers, spouses, etc.</p>
<p>It’s important, ultimately, to provide kids the tools to cope - you have to resist the impulse to fix things yourself, and instead, tell your kid what their choices are in fixing it themselves. </p>
<p>I’d agree with the poster who said uninvolved, unsupportive parents are far more problematic than “snowplow” parents - to over-protect your child may not always be doing them any favors, but the damage is usually just limited to themselves, and is almost-always recoverable. The damage a disinterested parent can cause can last a lifetime.</p>
<p>Quote, “Sorry but I think that parents who think that they are fully informed about all corners of their kids’ lives are living in a fools paradise. I’ve seen too many truly great parents blindsided by things their perfect-seeming teens have gotten up to. They only find out when they get caught.”</p>
<p>I am not saying that I always know everything, but I do know most things and I try very hard to encourage them to come to me with problems. </p>
<p>I can’t be sure that I will never be blindsided, and I am sure my kids are not perfect, but by spending time with my kids and maintaining open dialogue with them, I have improved the odds significantly. It is also true that getting a flu shot does not guarantee that you won’t get the flu. That is true, but it does significantly improve your odds.</p>
<p>FWIW, my parents really did know everything. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Everything in my family could be forgiven and worked through except dishonesty.</p>
<p>To back up act, my friends said the same things his d says. Most didn’t talk to their parents about most things. I also find it sad.</p>
<p>My middle kid is both special needs and gifted, and we are on the verge of suing. Turns out that they punish kids who are smart but need extra help to not fail.</p>
<p>Our children are out of college now, but when I look back to their middle and high school years, I’m embarrassed about a few helicopter things I did. I hated myself for doing it, and finally woke up and resolved to end it before they went to college. </p>
<p>On a related note, an in-law of mine works in the HR department of a big company. He said some parents of young college hires call up the managers directly to complain about their child’s reviews.</p>
Due to my recent fiasco on this topic, It is apparent that I do know who our child’s girlfriend is. (We did not see her in a picture though.) LOL.</p>
<p>Also, I confess that when my child was a high school student, I closely monitored what he was learning in math and physics - to the extent that I solved almost every problems in his textbook, and very often hunt down additional problems from several other similar or slightly harder (close to the college level) books and solved the problems there too. But he almost never wanted to look at the solutions I provided - he wiuld rather solve it by himself. when he is very young, my wife also learned the music instrument (as a beginner) at the same time my child learned the instrument. She attended the child’s recital as an adult performer (albeit just a beginner), not just as an audience. The child had no excuse of not practicing, as his mother was also practicing.</p>
<p>When DS came home from college for the first time, he is geninely cincerned that his mother has nothing to do everyday. (He asked what she did now that he wad not home.)</p>
<p>Are we snowplow/tigar parents?</p>
<p>A CCer here once posted that he suggests the students should go to a college which is not within the easy driving distance (like 6-8 hours) from their hometown. If their parents are too involved, they should go twice as far.</p>
<p>We did send our child far away to college (two flights away.) we at least did this right.</p>
<p>He also did not have a smartphone while he was a college students - later we did buy some not-so-smart semi-smartphone for him so he could text to his friends, but he did not text to us. It is inly after last Christmas that he received a smartphone.</p>
<p>When he called us (well, actually his mother) most of the time it was about cooking - he learned how to cook in one year when he lived off-campus. But he is still not as good at cooking as his mother. It is no coincident that he would share more with his mother than with me – they had been together with each other for a long time everyday before he went to college.</p>
<p>I understand your point, much2learn, and agree that for every helicopter parent, there is a…slow bus (???). I work out of a home office, but throughout our kid’s educational career I would stop when they got home for a snack and a chest about the day. I went,back to work afterward, but that 15 minutes was precious time. </p>
<p>At one point, DD and her friend mentioned another kid’s issue which was very dangerous and unknown to the parent… I elected to contact the Mom and tell her, reasoning that if my DD was XYZing, I would absolutely want to know. She screamed at me, asking why I was even talking to my child and her friend, and didn’t I have my own friends??? I was blown away. No, lady, I actually talk to my kid, don’t you??? </p>
<p>I see way more articles about helicopter parents, and freely admit that I have erred on that side at times. However, I would love to see some non-convicting practical suggestions in the media on encouraging parents to engage and fight for their kids a bit more, as some parents just don’t have natural skills in this area. As a special educator, I consider it part of my job to remind parents that it is critical to our job that they be the “expert” on their child, and that we do a much better job when they can tell us about practical things like friendship struggles, passions for topics, triggers of frustration, etc.</p>
<p>My parents were the opposite of helicopter or snowplow parents. There was only one time that I can remember my father standing up for me and that was when I was physically attacked by a girl as I was walking home from school. He took me to school the next day, demanded to talk to the principal and, when he was told she wasn’t there he took me home and said he’d bring me back when she got there. He wanted the girl’s name so he could press charges. It had been an ongoing issue though and he never sided with me. Even after I got punched in the face he still insisted that I must have been running my mouth and ****ed the girl off. The girl who hit me had been expelled from our school…she was a friend of another girl who had been harassing me for weeks because her younger brother thought it would be funny to tell her that I called her a dirty name. I didn’t even know her. My dad refused to believe that. It hurt. There were several other bullying incidents in jr. high and he always insisted that I somehow started it. It’s still that way to this day. If something goes wrong in my life he just wants to tell me how I did it wrong. It’s ALWAYS my fault. There’s no way that it was just because sometimes life isn’t fair. Because of this I’m determined to be an advocate for my son. He’s still young now…just turned 7, so I haven’t really had to use it. I did start driving him to school after he complained that a girl on the bus was hitting him and slamming his head into the window. I was proud of him for not wanting to hit her back. My dad would have just told me to sit somewhere else. I pulled him off the bus. I’m amazed that I didn’t get on the bus and find the girl and tell her about herself. You don’t hurt my baby. He doesn’t really participate in any activities yet, but I do notice when he’s being treated unfairly and get upset about it. Luckily I’ve been able to keep it reeled in and not make a scene. I did almost go off on a 7 year old for shoving my then 3 year old son, but I was able to restrain myself lol. Who knows what it will be like in the future, but I am very protective over my son. I know how it feels to be treated unfairly and left out of stuff. I can’t stand the thought of someone doing that to my son. It has nothing to do with how he reflects on me…I just got a huge dose of mama bear instinct when I had him. Luckily it seems I was also given the sense not to go off when something bad happens that is his own fault (he has to sit out recess for acting up in school for example).</p>