<p>I still remember when my S was a timid preschooler and invited to a BDay party by a classmate. I asked if there would be swimming (he wasn’t a good swimmer). The mom said she wasn’t sure. I asked if he’d know any guests other than the party girl and was told that , “No, my S was the only one from the preschool who was invited.” I asked if I could attend, to help my S feel more comfortable and watch him if there was swimming or a pool and was told I should ease up and let my 4 year old S develop “street smarts.” I thanked the mom and repeated my request and reluctantly, she said I could attend. Much of the party was centered around a swimming pool. As expected, the birthday child flitted among her guests and had no time to spare my S to help him get to know the other kids, all of whom knew each other. Supervision of the kids in and near the pool was casual to nonexistent. I was glad I was there, though I was not particularly welcomed. </p>
<p>I felt that those parents were too lenient with supervision for my tastes, especially around water with young children. My kids have also been invited to go to homes where no one is home except the grade school child issuing the invitation. Our standing rule is the kids can invite kids but can’t go to any house with no parents. </p>
<p>Once we called parents to ask if we could take a kid home from school with us so we could have him work in a project with our S. The parents seemed frankly puzzled about why we called. We fed the kid dinner after they had finished the project. When it was dark, we tried to take him home but he refused to say where he lived or his address. We had to fish out the phone number we had for him to call his home to get the address. His family wasn’t the least bit concerned about his extended absence. The kid was about 9 years old. A few years later, in a school night I saw him and a young friend at the mall at McDonalds on a school night about 9:30. No parents or adults were anywhere in sight and McDonalds was the only part of the mall still open. I wish the parents were more caring and involved.</p>
<p>Like shoot4moon, my husband I work from the home and were able to chat with our kids when they arrived home. Another great source of information was driving the kids to or from practices. Our kids and their friends would talk about EVERYTHING while in the car and they assumed incorrectly that I was deaf. I was smart enough not to ask questions etc. so I did know what was happening. The mother of one of my kid’s friends called me to ask if I knew what her son was doing when he had some academic difficulties because he never talked to her. We also received a call from the young man’s college when he had a problem because he had us under “mom” on his cell phone.
When older son was applying for grad school, we just listened to his plans. He did have a few bumps along the way such as getting official transcripts and references in on time. Fortunately, he did get into a great program and loves telling us about all the bureaucratic battles he is navigating in grad school.</p>
<p>Great points Much2learn and I agree with your perspective. As parents, we need to instill our children with two important lessons. The first is a moral center and to know the difference between right and wrong. The second job is to ensure they get the very best education possible to ensure the best chance of success in life.</p>
<p>The first job begins at birth. The second begins in preschool and extends through 12th grade. After high school, the lessons they learned will be remembered or forgotten but the parents have done the best they can.</p>
<p>I’ll state your comment a little stronger than you did. I think it is close to parental negligence NOT to know your children’s grades throughout middle and high school. This does not mean we do their homework for them. It means that they have one job and that’s to get a good education. We need to monitor that so we can provide tutoring and support when needed so they do as well as possible. What teenager freely admits when they are having a problem in Trig? You have to help them realize that it doesn’t make them dumb because they need help. Adults understand this. Teenagers don’t yet.</p>
<p>Sometimes we talk about giving kids “independence” and forget how dumb and clueless we were when we were teenagers. </p>
<p>We are blessed to have a D who is very close to her parents. Does it mean we know everything? No. But we do know her GPA, her PSAT, SAT scores, where she wants to go to college, and yes, who she considers her close friends. Many have been to our house and we know their parents. That may be considered ol’ school parenting but we are thankful to have that relationship.</p>
<p>I’ve been a School Psychologist for 28 years, working at every level K-12. Great conversation here, points which can relate to. Some things to always keep in mind (many of which have been mentioned): 1) As parents we must all fight the instinct to shield our children from failure and /or anxiety. It is a natural part of life which can be a springboard to great things. 2) More is not always better. If you are too involved in your child’s academics / extracurriculars they tend to not take as much responsibility for them. 3) There is ALWAYS more to the story than what your child is telling you. Never ceases to amaze me what parents are willing to believe.</p>
<p>For me, the biggest take away from the article and from the ensuing conversation is to let our young adult offspring make their own mistakes and figure out how to solve them. It’s hard to do. It seems like an inefficient process - why reinvent the wheel? But, I am trying to create a process where they may describe a situation to me and we might brainstorm a few ideas, but then I try to back away and let them figure out what they want to do and how they want to handle it. It’s hard to not always jump in and save the day, but I know it is the correct course of action.</p>
<p>I must have misunderstood. My definition of a snowplow parent was the one who pulled strings to get their child on the team, in the “right” class, a role in the musical etc. so as not to be disappointed. I sure don’t consider defending a 5 year old who is being bullied to be an example of snowplowing. That’s acting as a parent.</p>
<p>FWIW, when I was in HS I had a teacher who did not like me (not just my opinion, the entire class knew it). My grades were the highest in the class, close to 100% but he insisted on giving me a B in the class to keep me off of the A Honor Roll. (you have to wonder about the maturity of that guy, but that’s another thread…). My parents who, typical of that generation, always let us fight our own battles, made an exception in this case and offered to talk to the school administration about this. I said no. In retrospect, I would have said yes.</p>
<p>I agree with you - and the original article was addressing college students and their parents - not young children. In this context - a snowplow parent is contacting professors, getting involved in roommate disputes, etc. Nothing to do with young children.</p>
<p>Was wondering as the term helicopter parents was used to describe parents whose hovering also included swooping in to make things happen for their undergraduate child(ren). </p>
<p>Then again, it was strictly used for parents of late high school kids and undergraduate aged young adults.</p>
<p>With one of my kids, this process developed naturally after I was wrong a few times (not deliberately – I just happened to give advice that turned out to be less than successful.). The kid learned not to automatically trust Mom’s ideas. Talking with Mom became just one step in the overall research that comes before solving a problem. </p>
This reminds me of one event when DS was getting picked on by a football player in his second year in middle school. I learned about it and promptly looked up and sent an email to the vice pricipal whose job is for handling this kind of stuff. She promptly contacted the football coach who then talked to the team member who was bullying. He admitted he had done it. (At least he’s honest.) In the end, he apologized to DS in person in front of the coach and the vice principal. The coach said if he refused to apologize, he would tell the coach in the high school and the student would not be allowed to play in the football team in high school. This happened like a couple of days before that bullying students graduated from the middle school. The school’s action was swift, decisive, and helpful. For some reason, when I asked DS why he would not contact school’s authority by himself, he said he had thought the school would not bother with this kind of stuff.</p>
<p>DS attended a middle/high school where the football players are not always the most popular kids at school. Those IB/AP kids still have some “clout/visibility” - in one year, the students almost elected an IB/AP kid who is not into sport at all to be a homecoming king to rebel against the football culture (he almost won. He won another one later on but I forgot what it was.) It is somewhat like the football team at some ivy league schools where most students are into the fun of tailgating, (the free roast pig on that day is delicious!) etc., and do not care at all which team would win the game.</p>
<p>I think this is the only “snowplowing” that I have been involved. But I have been quite guilty of “snooping” when he was growing up though.</p>
<p>My favorite parental style classification is that of the dry cleaning parent. A Hamilton College admissions person told me that this type of parent drops their imperfect kid off at college “as is” and then expects him to be returned after four years in like-new condition. Pretty funny.</p>
<p>I used to think if I dropped off a perfectly clean 5 year old at school then I should get her back in similar condition. It didn’t happen too often.</p>
<p>Although this was in high school, my teacher complained that she is getting too many parent emails instead of the students emailing themselves…</p>
<p>Well as far as my experience, emailing the principal myself, all I get is a short “I have received this email” back but nothing ever happens, but when a parent sends an email about my circumstances (counselors were trying to place me in the freshman"general science" during Jr. year although I had already challenged the course earlier), action is taken…</p>
This is sad. If this is true, no wonder the institute indirectly encourages the parents to become snowplow parents.</p>
<p>This reminds me of another incident when DS was taking a dual-enrolled classes at a community college as a high schooler. I do not remember the particular event. But I do remember that the school administrator there played the “you shall not be here” card when we were there. Consider the kind of “poor customer service” attitude in that administration office, I really doubt that even if only the student was there without the parents, they would be helpful. This is because those school staff are much experienced in “getting the students out of their faces” so they do not need to do anything.</p>
<p>I think DS would not want to take classes there again after this kind unpleasant experience. From the pure business point of view, I think it is just that you get what you pay for. Want it cheap? Sorry, the current “climate” is that nobody else would want to pay for you generously so that you can get a better treatment. I know I may be somewhat biased here. But I have some “trust” problem against many established “institutes”, even though I am a parent who sent our child to public schools from K to 12.</p>
<p>Good for him. Quite frankly, your son had more sense about this than you. You learn by doing and “doing” includes both getting it right and getting it wrong-and learning from that.</p>
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<p>I feel sorry that your son had to deal with that. It would be fine if your wife had true interest in learning an instrument, and I think it would be great for the whole family to go support her and see her perform. But this sounds more like a method of control and a way to shame/coerce rather than a true interest in growing as a person on her part.</p>
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<p>You can attach your own labels, but if the only thing your son calls home for is to ask about cooking, that might be a sign that you are missing something very special from your relationship. Sounds like you spent a whole lot of time developing his intellect, but leaving out a whole other dimension which involves affection, interest in the child’s feelings and activities beyond how they impact the ultimate college acceptance.</p>
<p>It’s never to late to try to bridge the gap, though.</p>