<p>So what do you say to your kid when they are in tears because they are "just so done with it all".
D has always done very well in school has always wanted to go to an Ivey(tho' maybe not realizing exactly what that entails--ie admissions), and has worked her butt off for 13 yrs (her words). (2200 SAT 32 ACT) Now she's just tired, tired of all the late study nights, and feels it just wasn't worth it to put so much time and effort in. She has applied to 4 selective schools/don't know if she'll get in or not. Has been accepted to 2 not-as-selective, one being a large state school(which would be very affordable for us), and deffered at one that is harder for OOS to get into. I think she feels that the state school is 'beneath her' and why would she attend a school that isn't that hard to get in to.<br>
As parents we are trying to get through her head that it's more important what you do after you graduate than where you attend college, not to mention if she goes anywhere else she will be paying a significant portion of the tuition.</p>
<p>She may need a break--nothing wrong with that. She could make a plan for a gap year if she isn't excited about starting college now. My son started college after HS but if he wants a gap year within his college years--why not?</p>
<p>halfof8is3 - well, I feel your pain on this. I think this particular crop of kids graduating in 08 has been sold the biggest false bill of goods. They have been told how important it is for top college admissions to excel at school, keep up a rabid pace of clubs/activities, develop "hooks", passions, leadership positions, take more APs, write exceptional essays, ensure depth of accomplishments, etc. Many of these kids have killed themselves throughout high school and many are deserving of one of the coveted places in the top schools but won't get one due to sheer numbers, not their lack of outstanding preparation. We can all say that the other schools are just as good, that it's what you will do with your degree afterwards that counts (and, of course, that is true), etc., but the past four years have not been framed that way in these kids' heads. They have been working hard for the brass ring and I don't think we can blame them for feeling let down. One probably didn't need to suffer through AP Calc and AP Physics to get into most state universities although the preparation surely will help anywhere. Hopefully, your daughter will get into one of her preferred schools and change her mind a bit. If not, we parents, GCs, teachers, family , etc., have the task of reframing expectations and past history (all those years of sacrifice!). But, I think we should also acknowledge the disappointment and the fatigue - there is some merit to their feelings. My son's friend was recently accepted to the same college as my son, yet his friend never took an AP or an Honors course. You can imagine my son's grumping at the hours of homework he did compared with the free time his friend had for the same result. Given your daughter's strengths and work ethic, she will undoubtedly rise to the top at any "lesser" or less disired schools and her work habits will help her for the rest of her life. Right now, she really can't see this.</p>
<p>BTW, we have a neighbor whose son chose our state school over Brown. I often bring him up as an example of how people chose colleges for many reasons, not just selectivity. and to point out that there will be other bright and accomplished people even at the state school. But, like you, I am also not looking forward to late March, early April as I suspect there are just too many wonderful applicants this year and that there will be disappointment and fatigue and eventually, I hope, recentering. Good luck to you all.</p>
<p>Op - I think what your D's feeling is very normal. My daughter felt the same way last year about this time. I think it's anxiety of getting results soon and fear of not getting in anywhere "worthwhile." But as soon as my daughter showed up at her current school (not her first choice), she said it was definitely worth it. She enjoys being on her own, meeting different people, and yes, partying, boys... I think once your daughter finds out where she is going going, have a summer to relax, she will be ready and excited to go to college.</p>
<p>Just be sure she doesn't burn any bridges and makes any rash decision....tell her that just to appease the crazy mom, you want to send in at least one deposit when its time, so that if she has a change of heart, than she has some options</p>
<p>And then drop it, no talk about college, no talk about letters, nada for at least a month....when you feel the urge to talk about it, bite your tongue, because there is nothing to be done know anyway</p>
<p>There is still time to plan a gap year, and that can be eased into...when is spring break? ANd then there is prom...and a suggestion....plan some fun stuff....and also, warn family members to not ask about college for a bit...that D is stressed and is tired....I did that with my family...</p>
<p>sticky situation it seems.
Maybe it would be wise to give her a little breathing room.I have known these scenarios to backfire when student was pushed to go...on the other hand , too much freedom can also turn into a child deciding to not even attend local community college.
I hope you find the right balance that works for your family.</p>
<p>Both my sons ended up at a college that by CC standards is 'beneath' them, although I don't buy it. At most state universities you can find just as many NMF's and other assorted geniuses as you can a small college. It's just that there is more of a cross section. Is that bad? Let's step back a minute and ask ourselves if, after looking at our friends, our family, our loved ones... does having a paltry 11, 12 or 1300 SAT exclude one from being interesting, fascinating, creative? Gimme a break. In the words of who was it(?)... Stop the Insanity.</p>
<p>The first thing I'd do is discourage the opinion/attitude that being around people with high SAT scores is the most desirable thing in the world. </p>
<p>Next I'd discourage the attitude of everything that one does from 7th through 12th grade is designed to earn a ticket to paradise. It's not. Junior and senior high school should be one of the best times of your life. A time when you learn a lot, grow up a lot, do WHATEVER you want to do, basically, whether it's play the flute, act in a play, sing, play soccer, run track, get involved in student government, run a community program... the possibilities are endless. It's the time to take risks in a relatively safe environnment.</p>
<p>I don't know if it's having that attitude, or just a freak of nature, but now my kids are living their dream at a HUGE state university. Trust me, going to a state university does not mean being a number. You can PM me if you are interested in hearing more, but believe me, my kids are thriving and loving life.</p>
<p>And then I've known students pushed into going to college--any college--who end up withdrawing and everyone feels bad.</p>
<p>I agree with doubleplay. I went to small LAC and huge state U and both were great. It is often about attitude. But if a student doesn't feel ready, I wouldn't push. There is all the time in the world.</p>
<p>If you are still waiting on several schools, my tactic would be to stop talking about college at all with her. Don't say a word about it, don't encourage conversations about it. I think a big part of burnout is that they are all just so sick of thinking about it, and are stuck in the waiting period where nothing they do now makes any difference, so let it go. You can talk again once she knows what her options are in more concrete terms, but the what-ifs are big factor in burn-out. </p>
<p>Encourage her to have a little (age appropriate) fun now. If it were my daughter, I would be making sure that the late night study sessions end, and the stay up all night eating pizza and watching bad movies begin (on weekends!). This is also a good time to introduce bright well rounded kids to the relaxation of professional manicures and pedicures, the joy of outlet mall shopping, and the need for sleeping late at least one weekend day. </p>
<p>Most of all, stop talking college, never be the one to bring it up, and when she does, just tell her you are proud of her, and that once all the decisions are in you will sit down and start talking college again, but for now, the conversation is on hold. Let her be done with it all until all the RD decisions are out.</p>
<p>There may be a few issues tangled up here:</p>
<p>First, your daughter has worked very hard and thinks that the just rewards for her effort would be Ivy or equivalent admission. Thus, she can't see admission to a less selective school would be merited by the effort. Unfortunately, the selective admissions game has a lot of randomness in it. Lots of qualified kids may not get in. That may feel unfair. And, it probably is. But, that is just how the numbers fall at the moment.</p>
<p>Second, how to pay for school? She may not really internalize what it means to be on the hook for big debts. It is not unlikely that a 17 year old might not be good at thinking longer-term.</p>
<p>Third, she may be burned out or depressed. This might well color her judgment about the first two issues. There's every reason to be burned out after the competitive ringer that is college admissions. So, I'd second bethievt's possible suggestion. Here's what I wrote in another thread:</p>
<p>"A friend's daughter worked very hard at a high-pressure private school and went to Princeton the following year. The summer before her freshman year, she was in tears. It didn't feel like the right school for her, ... . I suggested to her parents that they ask about taking the year off. Princeton said fine, but they suggested she start the first two weeks and see. She went, agreed to stay, but was miserable. She called home several times a day. Nothing was good. No interesting classmates. Everybody just wanted to party. Her teachers weren't as good as those at the private school, ... . I thought she might transfer, but she stayed and now everything is fine. Good classes, friends, etc. She would have been much better off taking a gap year. She's a highly motivated kid and could have found something valuable to do other than schoolwork."</p>
<p>It is possible that choosing to defer might make her calmer and thus more able to rationally evaluate the choices she is likely to have. Of course, then you'll have to make a plan for how to make the year helpful for her and sensible for you.</p>
<p>"I think this particular crop of kids graduating in 08 has been sold the biggest false bill of goods."</p>
<p>"My son's friend was recently accepted to the same college as my son, yet his friend never took an AP or an Honors course. You can imagine my son's grumping at the hours of homework he did compared with the free time his friend had for the same result."</p>
<p>Kids who take AP and Honors courses and load up on ECs to get into XYZ College have indeed been "sold the biggest false bill of goods." The purpose of these activities is to learn and grow. Adults who encourage children to undertake these activities to build a college application resume are teaching children that the outcome is what matters, not the process, even though life is almost entirely about the process. The best among us do the right thing for the right reason. The reason, and the process, matter.</p>
<p>I agree with dntw8up that HS should be about learning and growing, not just a run up to college, as the main event.</p>
<p>According to the 2006 Census figures: for all 26-year-olds (born in 1980, more or less), a little more than half had attempted college, but only just over 25% had completed a bachelor's or higher degree. </p>
<p>Half of those who attempt college don't graduate within 7-8 years of HS. I can't imagine that being burned out and feeling that where the student was accepted was "beneath" her does not account in some part for the failure to graduate from college.</p>
<p>Take her to your nearest WalMart and make her apply for a job. Then when she is working side by side with single moms - those that are a couple of years older than she - making the same wage and working another job - she will regain her desire for college.
She will appreciate how lucky she is and be thrilled to attend her 'State' university that is now "beneath her".</p>
<p>She may not see it now. In reality, go to an elite school may set you up well at your first job, but after 10 years or change for several jobs employer dose not look at where you graduate any more, all they cared are what you acomplished in your previouse jobs. </p>
<p>Looks OP's daughter has the desire to work hard and excel, its just temporary burn out. Give her break and space, trust she will rebound quickly.</p>
<p>Please, guys, I am not advocating or encouraging children to pile up on APs and Honors for the sole purpose of getting into college. I knew I would get that response. Of course we all want our kids to pursue their interests and abilities, to learn for the sake of learning, to have fun in high school, to grow in many ways, etc. Unfortunately, it is not me or any other parent I know who is advising kids to pile on APs to get into college. It is actually the reverse, isn't it? It is not me who told my son at 18 different admissions sessions that admission to college x, y, z (including safeties) requires that he take "the most rigorous program" at his school, that he "challenge himself by taking APs instead of Honors, and Honors instead of level ones, or, my favorite, that getting an "A" in AP would be better than getting an "A" in Honors, etc. It is not me or any other parent I know who is telling students that they need to have depth in their activities, that they should be leaders and not just members, or players (which is why we now have 3 captains or 4 captains for all the teams, right?), etc, etc. I don't think it's parents. Personally, I find all of it disgusting. My kids chose to take AP classes in subjects that they liked. When my son did not want to push through a 5th year of language I said that's your choice even though several colleges told us that they look for that commitment to push through in language. It is the admissions officers, the admissions statistics, information from sources such as CC, articles, how to college books, it is the sheer numbers of applicants and unspecific admissions processes that ago on behind closed doors without any accountability, and it is real stories that have created this situation. It is disingenous to say that kids aren't being innundated with this information from all sources, or that it isn't reality for these kids if they aspire to certain programs, degrees, or schools. Certainly, the pressure to build a strong transcript and resume is not limited to Ivies or the top 25 US News Schools anymore. It's not me, or most parents, who are teaching kids to do things to get into college.</p>
<p>I too have sympathy for OP's D. And agree with Riley. Not all AP courses and honors courses are filled with joyous learning opportunities. A lot of it is a grind, often with uninspired teachers. I understand looking back at your high school career and thinking- I could have ended up at State U with a lot less work (and a lot more fun). I worked SO hard, and now high school is gone and I didn't obtain the result I was looking for. If you worked late every night at your job, worked many weekends, and then didn't get the promotion you thought your hard work would earn-wouldn't you by justifiably mad or disappointed?</p>
<p>thanks all for your encouragement/suggestions!! I think D is very unsure right now about her future in general. She says "What if I make the wrong decision?" I say "College is only 4 years(hopefully) of your life"<br>
She thinks everyone else knows where they want to go and they've found that ah-ha school, and she's the only one who hasn't--(did I mention she's a little overdramatic!) She missed being in the top 10 of her class by one spot(4.04gpa) so is feeling very discouraged at the moment--tho' her grades have actually improved since last marking period.
I just keep trying to tell her that what really matters is what she does once she graduates--we have a relative who graduated from Stanford and did nothing of importance after--so success isn't always measured by where you went to college.
I never imagined this would be so stressful!!
Thanks again--it's helpful just to be able to vent and know that others have gone through the same thing!!</p>
<p>Why not suggest a gap year for your daughter? Let her decide for herself what she wants--and get re-energized for college. I think the important thing for her now would be that she doesn't get more burnt out. She seems the type that might 'crack' if she goes straight to college without any break. Tell her that you'll pay for her gap year--and from then, she can attend college--or community college. Hopefully that year will be a time for her to grow up in...</p>
<p>
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I just keep trying to tell her that what really matters is what she does once she graduates--we have a relative who graduated from Stanford and did nothing of importance after--so success isn't always measured by where you went to college.
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Exactly. Years ago when the market was down, my H's company laid off several employees graduated from Columbias, NYU, etc. higher ranked colleges. The one graduate from non-name college (my H) had staid. It was not where you gradute count, it was what you can do at the job that count.</p>
<p>The RD result has not been released yet, right? She will have the chance in other schools. And with three monthes summer break, she definitely will bounce back, they are young. I don't see why need a gap year.</p>
<p>I suggested to my daughter to take a "gap summer" where she does not have to do anything before college. Not sure she will listen to me, I think she plans to work 2 jobs. ::eek::</p>