So what's the point? Burn out-senioritis- D doesn't want to go to college!!

Parent Cafe
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The first thing I'd do is discourage the opinion/attitude that being around people with high SAT scores is the most desirable thing in the world.

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<p>When you've been put on a pedestal and isolated from other people by other people for your entire life because you are smart, why on earth is it unreasonable to want to be around people like you, in a place where there will be no pedestal and less isolation? That was certainly one of my major motives for wanting to apply to "top" schools. Sure, I could have found other people like me at most colleges, but I wanted an environment where I would be the norm and not part of a small subset. I was sick to death of being the big fish. Having now gone through college and out the other side, I think I had absolutely the right idea (for me - YMMV).</p>

<p>I agree with almost everyone that it sounds like the OP's D is burnt out. Summer vacation can do wonders for that. It also sounds like she's too worked up about her future. I can relate...I remember feeling, in college, like nearly everyone else knew what direction they were going in and I didn't. Such things have a way of working themselves out, as long as one continues to investigate and prepare for possibilities.</p>

<p>She is afraid of making the "wrong" decision, so it might be helpful to point out to her that this isn't so black and white. There is not one "right" decision and all the rest are wrong. There aren't even many pure wrongs (and I am not convinced that there is such a thing as a pure right). Most schools will be "right" on some counts, and "wrong" on others.</p>

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<p>I think many kids feel the way the OPs does. I remember my son being just unbearable last year - they are wrapping up high school, second guessing themselves about their choice of college, thinking about separating from their friends, maybe alittle remorse if they worked very, very hard all through high school or alittle remorse if they think maybe they could have worked alittle harder, gosh....I think it all sounds pretty normal. I agree with the posters who advise to NOT make any drastic decisions. I'm not big on the common "take a gap year" thread that appears all too often on CC.. the time between March and August will bring a whole bunch more changes and kids perceive this transition from high school to college as more pivotal than it really is. Yes, there are some kids that are mature enough to head off to college successfully and a gap year might help, but those kids are in the minority I think. I like the "gap summer" and had suggested it to my son, too, but he did the same thing worked his butt off so he'd have "plenty" of spending money when he left for college. I also think sometimes it helps with these kids not to focus and discuss on the "end of the 4 years of college" but take small bites when they are second guessing themselves. The concept of "finishing college" and what they will do after college is so foreign to many kids, as you can tell they are really more focused and worried about what's happening today. They can't even imagine what day 1 at college will be like so talking about the college not making a difference at the end of 4 years is alien speak to them.</p>

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She says "What if I make the wrong decision?"

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<p>My checkered college career including attending four colleges... for my BS. Upon graduation, I immediately accepted a job in a field completely unrelated to my major, a field in which I had eight (count 'em, eight!) college credits.</p>

<p>So the decision might be "wrong"... but it might be the one that leads her to the right one. And that would make her "wrong" decision the right one for her; the "wrong" decision may be the one she needed to make to find that right decision.</p>

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<p>Plus, she's scared. Scared of rejection, scared of the future, scared of how otheres will feel if she doesn't accomplish what she thought she would or should, and scared of having to make choices (great post on article yesterday on how afraid kids were to have to let go of an opportunity or choice). She's partly protecting herself- sometimes just knowing that if you have the option to cut and run- it is easier to face the future. But feeling like the freight train is going full speed ahead and you are stuck on it is down right scary. I would recommend doing what I always fail to do and to just reassure her that she has time to make those decisions, and that when the time comes to make those decisions- you will support her no matter what that decision is. And...another area as a "fixer" I always fail...is just to let them vent. Sometimes they just need to let it all out and then drop it - I'm usually heck-bent on coming up with the solutions at that moment. Sometimes- I think a hug of reassurance and not getting caught up in
"their" drama is the way to go. </p>

<p>We have had more than our share of drama around here lately, so I can relate! I'm sure we all can.</p>

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<p>I have also seen the same "feelings" from my S as OP states. This really came to show during that first week of January after he spent so much of his time finalizing applications and then needed to take finals. He was burned out, we could sense it without any words being spoken. Hopefully, we realized this early enough. Sometimes, as parents, we are blinded by our children's ambitions, especially if they match our own ambitions for our kids. Try to be aware of the signs, breathe, take a time-out. Yes, time-outs are extremely useful at any age.</p>

<p>We did what several people have suggested - backed off. Once the apps are in, there is nothing else you can do; even waiting is a waste of time. Since then, I have handled all of the financial aid documents and issues - of course, it is my finances that the schools are concerned with. The last thing I wanted to do was burden him with the added stress of paying for school before he was even accepted. That choice can only be made once you have all the information available. We wanted my S' decisions to be "need-blind". This is the responsibility we chose to accept becoming parents whether we thought about it or not 18 years ago. Before anyone jumps to the conclusion that money is not an issue for us, please know that our EFC would not cover the cost of a State school.</p>

<p>Since the middle of Feb., I could see the thaw happening. He became more family oriented, started dating, helps around the house more than ever. He keeps a part time job that helps him pay for his fun and puts a little away (very little). This semester he dropped an AP Math course and replaced it with a Creative Writing elective class. For many students, March is the most stressful month of the year, it comes much too soon and then takes forever to pass. Exercise and activity are important at this time of the year. It is not healthy to sleep away March. OK, give them 8-10 hours a night. If you are making plans to visit schools this spring to help make decisions, make it fun. Depending on where you are, you can drop by the beach for a day, go to an amusement park, visit a national park or monument. As a parent, stay away from questions such as; can he be in the honors program?, how can he get into the toughest classes?, do you have 24 hour tutoring? Perhaps, you should look at what's fun to do; do they have movies?, what type of social activities are there? what does the menu look like? what is the best way to get to the fieldhouse?, is getting tickets to the game easy? Don't just make it a rigor. I know, this may not be possible for some families depending on time, monay, etc., but hopefully you get my point in general.</p>

<p>A gap year may be good for some of our kids. Gives them time to regroup/refresh. But realize that many of their friends/peers will go off to college and our S & Ds may experience "non-buyers" remorse. The woulda-coulda-shoulda syndrome. This can also be stressful.</p>

<p>Sorry for being long-winded and if I sound preachy. Good luck to all parents, but more importantly, good luck to all our children.</p>

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<p>Rilelydog, I really liked your first post, and completely agreed with it. But I also totally agree with dntw8up and 07Dad. And while I agree the schools are saying what they are, they aren't lying, are they? Is it not the case that to even have a shot, you DO have to do those things, but no one says it means you'll get in and the stats are veryclear. </p>

<p>And as for parents, we must travel in different circles and also what adults say in the company of their friends is NOT what I heard from kids/adults on this board and in our community. I think the folks on this thread, you and I included, share a similar viewpoint, but it is not widely shared. While we can blame the universities (I'm a huge and frequent critic of their marketing ploys and what its turned our kids into), I also see an entire culture- of which parents are a big part of it- being extremely instrumental with their children's education, summers, and even ECs. Rarely does 'education' and 'growth' seem to come into the discussion, since that doesn't give one a 'competitive edge'.</p>

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<p>I agreed with 2by2's point - we get caught up in the drama, and whether a point here or there or a label is going to guarantee our kids' success. I was bewildered why she views her state u as an awful alternative, frankly. Not only are many state flagship u's becoming extremely competitive (kids with 3.8+ were rejected from PSU last year, according to heartbroken postings on CC's board, and there are obviously many others that are considered Public Ivies), but they also have honors programs and broad opps. She also can save money for grad school, a very worthy rationale that doesn't reflect badly on her choice. </p>

<p>I'd suggest waiting until the dust settles and all the aid letters are in, and then going to the admitted student days at each school. If you are optimistic and cheerful about the wonderful choices she has, this will blow over and she'll start looking ahead to the great opportunities in college.</p>

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<p>Newsflash!!!!!! A teenage girl becomes emotional, cries and believes the world does not always appreciate her. </p>

<p>I guess nothing like that ever happens. Maybe a little discussion and logic will help the situation --- or not.</p>

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<p>^^^^^^^^^^^^
yup.</p>

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<p>People need to be honest with themselves. A lot of bright kids shouldn't be killing themselves in high school. They should just take reasonably hard classes and go to their state schools. They are being run through the meat grinder, thinking they need to do all of these ECs and take the "most rigorous courseload possible" when it's just not the case. It is the case if you are trying to go to Harvard, but for so many kids, they are just burning themselves out for no benefit.</p>

<p>What I mean is, NO you don't need to take AP Chemistry if you hate science, and you don't need to AP Calculus if you hate math and you don't need to do 15 ECs. For MOST students, it is their SAT and GPA that will determine where they can and can't go to school. A healthy smattering of AP and honors courses will be sufficient.</p>

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<p>edad is correct that OP's D is going to have to get past this. But, there really do seem to be issues here that are worthy of discussing. </p>

<p>The pressure seems to start from the idea that if a HS graduate doesn't also get a college degree she or he will end up working at Wal-Mart. Well, since only 1 out of 4 Americans gets a college degree, that is not a well-founded general fear.</p>

<p>The pressure increases as society (including the rating mags, CC, the newspapers and, yes the HS, parents and student) uses a market brand assessment of the "worth" of a particular educational experience. Well, reality check, there simply are not enough spots at the market "elite" colleges for everyone to attend them, even everyone who is an uber student. There is very little a student can do that will guarantee admission to the elite schools. </p>

<p>But, there are plenty of things that assures that the student won't have any realistic chance to attend many schools. Bad grades through lack of effort, bad conduct, etc. is counter-productive to a decent HS education, college admission and success in graduating from college. </p>

<p>To me, this is where the parent can ease the pressure by pointing out that striving is necessary regardless of what the end result happens to be. But that since the level of effort is not a guarantee of a particular result, the process of learning at every level has to be its own reward. Is that going to be a hard sell to motivate many students? I'd say yes, but misrepresenting that being an uber student is a guarantee of elite admission and the ultimate "good life" is merely setting most students up for a tremendous amount of stress, grade grubbing rather than learning, and resume padding rather than exploring interests and passions. And all to probably little or no avail.</p>

<p>Then there is the fiancial reality pressure. Not everyone can pay out of pocket to attend the school of the student's dreams, even if the student gets accepted. Underlying a lot of stories on CC is the fact that the parents and the student never really got this clear early enough in the process (in my opinion starting in late mid-school) where the student's aims and expectatons can come close to a match with the economic realities. Those students who have sacrificed much of the enjoyment of life in HS to get into a "prized" school, only to be informed that --Oh, you (we) really can't afford it and/or you will be $100,000+ in debt in your early 20s-- have a legitimate beef in my opinion.</p>

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<p>To Halfof8 - I have 2 suggestions
1) GO do something fun with your D, either the 2 of you (I'm assuming you are Mom) - a trip to a day spa, or go to a nearby city for a short weekend trip with a nice dinner, some shopping, a museum, whatever the 2 of you find relaxing - or perhaps the whole family. Do NOT talk about college, if she brings it up, gently remind her that this is about fun. The more the event can be like outings that you 2 or your family used to take, the better, also the shorter the better.</p>

<p>2)At a separate time, when she begins stressing about college, say no need to fret until all results are in, then she will decide - "after all, there is no law that says you HAVE to go to college". Then walk away. I wouldn't necessarily mention gap years yet, if she asks what would I do instead of going to college, list some ideas taht you would find acceptable.</p>

<p>I hate to say this, but if she is a stressing, worrier type person, it is just going to get worse all through March, while she waits on her app results. I think it is important to give her permission to have alternatives, but not discuss or push any of them at this point - she doesn't really know what her choices will be. Think of yourself as a giant plush teddy bear absorbing all this angst, with a tiny little mirror to occasionally reflect back some of the concerns she is expressing, and an even tinier speaker to broadcast ideas about what some of her options may be. You are "Mom as punching bag, the pads in the padded room, etc".</p>

<p>This gets me back to my first suggestion - time is rapidly running out, steal a little of it for some time with her or as a family - neither of you will regret those hours, long after all this stress is forgotten.</p>

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<p>My D is also a senior and also stressed. I have been talking to her about trying to relax and trying to have fun. She's realizing that college is definitely happening - and while exciting it's also a bit scary saying good bye to life long friends and leaving home. So stress is natural and doesn't necessarily mean she needs a gap year, etc. Try to have her find things to do to relieve stress (exercise, baths, reading, walks, tv, etc) and also things to distract her from dwelling on waiting to hear back - work, volunteer, do something with friends, go shopping with Mom, etc. My D is finding the teachers basically have given up on the seniors - which I think is a bit early for senioritis - but she may also be finding that school isn't as engaging as it once was. My D feels she is just wasting her time.</p>

<p>A good light read is a novel called "Acceptance" by Susan Coll. The story's main characater is "AP Harry" who dreams of going to Harvard (but doesn't have the money to pay for Harvard). It is an entertaining read - all the kids end up happy at the end but not necessarily at the schools they wanted to attend. Both you and your D might enjoy it. </p>

<p>Plus there's always that Ivy for graduate school!</p>

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<p>We have a much milder form, and still this is tough.
I know that DD is tired from application marathon in December-January. That she needs to relax a bit and she needs to concentrate on school (after all 5 APs are still there). And we should not talk about colleges, we should not talk about colleges, we should not talk about colleges, we should not talk about colleges....But at the same time she needs to make sure all her apps are complete, all possible interviews are done, all additional info is sent. Every tiny thing may cost admission! And she needs to look for scholarships, she needs to look for scholarships, she needs to look for scholarships, she needs to look for scholarships......
Sometimes we all are on the same wave, whether it's "let's relax" and "application process is not over" mode. But sometimes we are in oppositte moods. She desperately tries to retain her sanity by trying devote a lot of time to her favorite EC or even to her hobbies when I realize that she has never notified colleges on her last achievement (and what if they reviewed her app today?!), or that she could be applying for scholarships instead. And how can we avoid talking about colleges if tonight I have to figure out how to add 11th college to FAFSA. What if I delete a college and they are not done with our FAFSA yet? And we are still not sure that all colleges have all techers' recs. And she needs to look for scholarships, she needs to look for scholarships, she needs to look for scholarships, she needs to look for scholarships......
Tough!</p>

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Junior Member</p>

<p>Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: lalaland
Gender: Not Saying
Threads: 3
Posts: 270 I suggested to my daughter to take a "gap summer" where she does not have to do anything before college. Not sure she will listen to me, I think she plans to work 2 jobs. ::

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Actually, jobs are good ideas. Its kind of pressure relief. Whatever it takes your mind complete off school work. Even adaults need break time from work once in a while.</p>

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<p>OP, we went through this last year. D was getting burned out, and she was stressing about schools (waiting until April is really hard). Not only did she not know all of her options yet, but she didn't even know where she really wanted to go. She was tired of high school and all the dumb stuff connected with it --- like the whole graduation thing (e.g., she had a higher gpa than a couple vals, but couldn't be one due to a B). By the time AP tests came around, she didn't even study for them (had to take them; school rules). By the time she graduated, she was sick of it all. To make matters worse, she never had a clear favorite school & had too many good ones to choose from (yeah, hardly a "problem," but it added to the stress). She still stressed about things all summer long. I know that a lot of CC'ers will suggest a gap year in such situations, but I don't think that's always a good thing. As it turned out, D discovered a lot of things about herself & her interests when she went off to college. Her love of learning has been rekindled, and she has made some career-choice changes as a result of her experiences this year. She now has a very clear idea of where she wants to be & what she wants to do. It is MUCH different than what she thought at this time last year ... when she was in the boat your D is in today. While it has been a bumpy road at times, I think it is a road she needed to travel. My advice is to be there to support her, but let her work through whatever is going on. It is normal for some students.</p>

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<p>Citymom, the scholarship thing is tough, particularly since I think that it is difficult for the child to feel the same urgency about scholarships that you do. The scholarship apps hit right where the most burnout is - more forms fill out, recs to collect and essays to write.
We took a realistic look at our D's chances of getting any outside scholarships, and suggested she get a job - then we were free to enjoy those last few months. After a few years on CC, I've only seen a few kids make up a significant proportion of their expenses with outside scholarships - the most money comes from the initial merit award from the school OR kids who really adopt the scholarship process as a challenge or a job, and throw all of themselves into the process (for some reason, more often boys).
I don't know your financial situation, so i can't presume to say don't apply, I'm just saying that if your child doesn't take to the schol apps with the attitude that "I'm earning money with each app", then I think that this is a good place for the parents and the GC to provide some guidance about prioritixing the child's efforts.</p>

<p>Finally, re gap years - I think there is proselytizing about gap years here on CC, because there a lot of people here who feel that there are a lot of kids who would benefit from one. The truth is though, that gap years are not the norm in the US, there is no widely established mechanism for doing one, and most kids will seem "odd" to their peers when they take one. Gap years aren't a viable alternative for most kids. Also, just as I don't think a gap year is an answer for a kid who gets into several schools, but not his number one choice, I also don't think a gap year is the immediate answer to the simple burnout or senioritis, at least not in the US today.
What I think is important is for the parents to make a simple statement - you don't HAVE to go to college (unless of course the kid does, as in a scholarship that will expire that also makes college possible) - just let the child know there is no law that says this is the path you have to follow. Time will take care of the rest of the process for the majority of kids. But, as Kelsmom wisely says, it is a bumpy road.</p>

<p>Look on the bright side, I think part of what kids feel is some of the past bit of growing up that they need to do. It is better that they deal with these feelings while they are still at home, rather than get away to school and melt down, or not go to class, or,or or.</p>

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<p>Of course it's way too early to say whether a gap year is a good idea, but it's not too early to have an open mind about it. Most kids probably don't need them, but some kids can have a wasted and terribly stressful time if they feel forced to go before they're ready. My guess is that OP's D will feel differently once she has acceptances in hand and can view it as a reality, also once the stresses of senioritis have passed and her friends are talking about going away to their colleges. Visiting or re-visiting her options might help her feel more comfortable and maybe even excited about the whole thing, but if she's still saying in August that she doesn't feel ready, then it might be good if her parents have kept an open mind about this.</p>

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And she needs to look for scholarships, she needs to look for scholarships, she needs to look for scholarships, she needs to look for scholarships......

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Exactly, so she can't sit back and relax just yet!!</p>

<p>There are several things I would have done differently now that I have hindsight...the main thing...
Applied to fewer reach schools and considered more less selective schools--when we were condsidering schools one of things we looked at were the SAT/ACT score ranges, she was well within range if not at the top for some of the Iveys, and well above for the others. Of course I know this is not the only thing colleges consider. </p>

<p>Some state schools we thought were "too dumb" for her and I think now that was a mistake. Maybe for her it would be better to be at the "top" of the pile instead of possibly struggling near the bottom. Is it better to be challenged by your classmates and not be as good as they are--or do you have more confidence/less stress when you are the one challenging others?</p>

<p>Maybe she'll get at least one acceptance from a reach and she'll feel justified that the hard work was worth the effort. In a way I think that has something to do with the whole feeling of being burned out--she feels she did all of this work and what was the reward? She has set very high standards for herself, she will come home from school and say she's failing a class, when I ask her what grade she has and she says a B--to her that's failure!!</p>

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<p>Just 1 more opinion here. Some of it has been mentioned already. 1st; I am not a fan of the "Gap Year" concept. It's sort of the new vogue rage. Unless the student truly has some form of emotional or mental melt down, I think it hurts the mindset for academia. I personally tried it. I took 18 months off prior to going back to school. I took 1 class and couldn't get motivated. It took me 7 more years before I finally went back to get my degree. I don't think gap years are good for the vast majority of student. Not unless as I mentioned there is a true emotional/mental melt down, or possibly if the individual has some once in a lifetime opportunity such as living overseas for a year or some other unique life learning opportunity.</p>

<p>Having said that, my daughter was in a "Burnout" mode her senior year. In my opinion, it wasn't so much burnout, as it was the realization that she was getting ready to graduate high school and she was scared about moving away to college and not having he familiar family and friends around her. I truly believe this is more practical of an issue. For my daughter, I took her out shopping. (OUT OF TOWN). Just her and I. We talked about how her life was going to change after graduating high school. We talked about how the classes were going to be more her responsibility without mom and dad checking up on her to make sure assignments and tests were being done. One suggestion I made to her was about the class schedule. She arranged for her first semester to be 4 classes instead of 5, and she signed up for electives and generically fun classes. I assured her that she didn't need to know her major yet. She wound up taking an Astronomy class (She loves the stars), a public speaking class (Helps with confidence), woman's study course (sounded fun), and a music class. Not necessarily BIRD classes, but psychologically not as stressful as traditional math, science, etc....</p>

<p>We also planned ahead of time when we could come to visit and when she could come home to visit. We were able to visit once in September and once in October. she came home for Thanksgiving and then again a month later for Christmas. She was then able to be on her own the 2nd semester until spring break and then summer break. She is now a Junior, and we can barely ever talk her into coming home to visit. She really loves college. She loves living in the dorm. This is her 2nd year as a Dorm Resident Adviser. She likes helping Freshman learning to cope.</p>

<p>Basically, my suggestion is to talk with her. Not as a parent, but as a friend. Concentrate on the positives. Concentrate on all the schools. My daughter was a 4.0gpa in highschool in the IB program. She had offers to some very prestigious schools. She chose State U. Partly because some of her friends were going to go there. It made the transition easier. My son is different. Like me, he is trying to get out and move away as soon as possible. He's been offered scholarships to 4 schools and acceptance to 3 others. All far away. Each kid is different.</p>

<p>Anyway, good luck. But I still need to emphasize IMO, that a "Gap Year" should be the very last possible option. She's probably just scared of the reality. She may not say it, but it's definitely a probability. Therefor, she will come up with every excuse in the world why she shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that. Get her excited about change. Let her know you are still there for her. Good luck</p>