Some advice please! Penn state UP or Michigan State Honors.

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>About me: International student, Indian, looking for a major in engineering.</p>

<p>I have received admission in Penn state University park in the DUS(Department of Undergraduate Studies), and into the college of Engineering in Michigan State University Honors College.</p>

<p>Based on Rankings, I would have chosen Penn state already, but I have gotten into the Honors college for Michigan but not Penn. Also I have heard that Michigan is better for international students.</p>

<p>Anyone out there, with some experience, could you please help me?</p>

<p>Help will be appreciated, thanks.</p>

2

<p>Penn State, definitely. Penn State’s a much better college for engineering and will provide you with an overall better education. Michigan’s weather conditions are too harsh for us too handle( I’m Indian too) in my opinion. And no, Penn State has a LOT of international students.</p>

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<p>Where are you currently studying? </p>

<p>And also, I was more concerned about missing the honors college. Apparently you can skip the prerequisites and all that. </p>

<p>And I heard that though there are a lot of internationals on the campus, the inter group interaction is very less, which is what I’m after. Correct me if I’m wrong though.</p>

<p>Do you have any idea if it is possible to get in Schreyer Honors college after you go to college in Penn state?</p>

4

<p>I am parent, no experience as in US college, but did a little research for you, maybe it will help.</p>

<p>Michigan State University</p>

<p>“It is considered to be one of America’s Public Ivy universities, which recognizes top public research universities in the United States. Today, MSU is the ninth-largest university in the United States, with 47,800 students and 2,954 faculty members. The school’s nuclear physics, engineering, packaging engineering, political science, business, journalism, education, economics, law and osteopathic medicine programs are among the nation’s best.”</p>

<p>Rankings</p>

<p>University rankings (overall) National ARWU50
Forbes 282
U.S. News & World Report 71
Washington Monthly 33
Global ARWU 92
QS 164
Times 96</p>

<p>Michigan State ranks 92nd in the world, according to a Shanghai Jiao Tong University study, which measures scientific research leading towards a Nobel Prize. U.S. News & World Report ranks MSU 71st in the U.S. The 2011 QS World University Rankings placed Michigan State University at 164th internationally.</p>

<p>MSU is huge on athletics, that is something that interests you as you posted on another forum.</p>

<p>“I plan to play Soccer at the highest level possible and Table Tennis too.”</p>

<p>“MSU’s Division I sports teams are called the Spartans. They compete in the Big Ten Conference in all sports except ice hockey, in which the team is part of the Central Collegiate Hockey Association. MSU’s football team won the Rose Bowl in 1954, 1956 and 1988 and boasts six national championships.[5] Its men’s basketball team won the NCAA National Championship in 1979 and 2000 and is currently enjoying a streak of six Final Four appearances over the last 13 seasons. MSU men’s ice hockey won national titles in 1966, 1986 and 2007. Cross country has historically been Michigan State’s most successful sport, especially during a four-decade period spanning roughly 1930–1970 during which the Spartans won eight NCAA championships and numerous other conference and national titles.”</p>

<p>Pennsylvania State University</p>

<p>“Penn State University (University Park) is ranked among the top-fifteen public universities nationally and is considered to be one of America’s Public Ivy universities, which recognizes top public research universities in the United States.Annual enrollment at the University Park campus totals more than 44,000 graduate and undergraduate students, making it one of the largest universities in the United States. It has the world’s largest dues-paying alumni association. The university’s total enrollment in 2009–10 was approximately 94,300 across its 24 campuses and online through its World Campus.”</p>

<p>Rankings</p>

<p>U.S. News & World Report America’s Best Colleges 2012 (Undergraduate Programs)</p>

<p>Best National Universities
PENN STATE TIED FOR 45th NATIONALLY
(+2 from last year)</p>

<p>Top 50 Public National Universities
PENN STATE TIED FOR 13th NATIONALLY
(+2 from last year)</p>

<p>Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs
PENN STATE TIED FOR 17th NATIONALLY</p>

<p>Remember getting into an Honors Program is a privilege as well as a challenge. Also between the two, MSU is tougher to get into, as per incoming Freshman Stats. And WEATHER wise both are almost the same.</p>

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<p>anialways</p>

<p>Wow! Thanks! You must have done a lot of work. But unfortunately, I already know the internet facts. What I actually wanted to know is about the diversity. According to some student review sites, Michigan state is one of the most diverse universities in the US whereas Penn state, though also very diverse, has just become so recently. The surrounding college town remains conservative, while the city near Michigan state university, East Lensing, is very diverse and liberal.</p>

<p>Also I would like to know that which one would be better from an employer or Graduate School’s perspective?</p>

<p>Still, Thank you very much though.</p>

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<p>^I have visited Penn State like 10+ years ago…you are right…it was pretty rural, but maybe things have changed. If Michigan state has more diversity and college town, that may be better. Not sure of the employment prospects, graduate school prospects is good anywhere as long as you have a good undergrad GPA. Penn State engineering may be more renowned.
Do you have family close by in any of the states?</p>

<p>Also maybe not relevant, but wondering if you have other choices like purdue, gtech, rutgers. Just because the latter 3 have a great international student base. </p>

<p>And Penn State is big on athletics as well…(Div 1)</p>

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<p>I have choices like VTech, UMass, but I have shortlisted these two. </p>

<p>Its really just this diversity thing thats nagging me. I dont want to be stuck with a group of Asians over there. I want to meet different people and make friends. I want to have a good time AND get a good education. I am actually very frustrated at myself. I got enough SAT and EC’s to get into a very good school, but I only applied to the Ivy’s and these four. I think I might have the Highest SAT over there with 2100. And guess what, I didn’t get a scholarship too.</p>

<p>I don’t mind if I’m the only international there, just as long as the students and faculty are friendly enough.</p>

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<p>Virginia Tech is actually the best of them all…did you try posting to the college selection board. People there may have more suggestions.</p>

<p>And I am not sure what you mean by “stuck with asians”…not sure of your attitude here…I think you will get a “reality check” when you come here.</p>

<p>All these colleges are diverse and it is upto you to mingle/mix and find diversity (Asians actually refer to the broader asian subcontinent - chinese, japanese, korean…etc…etc)…</p>

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<p>I didn’t mean that in any negative sense. I just don’t want to be stuck with any one group. I certainly don’t have anything against Asians. I won’t want to be friends with just whites as well. I just want that when talking to me students think that they are better than me because of their color. No scratch that, they can think whatever they want, I don’t want them to be outwardly … dissentful? Im not sure whats the word here. </p>

<p>Are you in school right now though?</p>

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<p>I suggest you watch some youtube videos of move-in and campus tours. And post your questions on individual colleges forum. They will help you with comparison and any questions you might have regarding diversity and recruiter rankings.</p>

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<p>On the Indian Thread, most of us here are ourselves trying to figure out stuff, and anybody who offers help does it mostly by way of what they have read up on stats from various sources. If you are expecting somebody to be able to tell you what exactly you should choose, not wise. Because these are your decisions to make and so the more you can read the better it is, and make up your own mind , that is the only advise I have for you. Like you mentioned you researched your internet facts, still cannot resist posting the following.</p>

<p>All that I am posted is found on different websites including the College link, so I am just quoting facts from different sources.</p>

<p>"""" Quick Stats-MSU</p>

<p>African American 8%
Asian American 5%
Hispanic 3%
International 6%
Native American 1%
White 75%
Unknown 2%</p>

<p>Jobs and Internships</p>

<p>Each year nearly 600 top organizations conduct more than 15,000 interviews on Michigan State University’s campus. Recent interviewers include Boeing, Campbell-Ewald Advertising, Daimler-Chrysler, General Electric, IBM, Morgan Stanley, PepsiCo, Peace Corps, Pfizer, Teach for America, and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.</p>

<p>Facts</p>

<p>Firms That Most Frequently Hire Grads<br>
3M
AbbottLabs
Accenture
Aetna
AFLAC
AmericanCancerSociety
AmericanExpress
AmericanRedCross
Americorp
AppliedMaterials
ArthurAndersen
AutoOwners
BankofAmericaSecurities
BankOne
BellstarPromotions
Bioport
BirminghamSchoolDistrict
Black&Decker
BluecrossBlueShield
Boeing
BordersGroup
Bridgestone/Firestone
Campbell-EwaldAdvertising
CardinalHealth
CarlsonMarketingGroup
CHRobinson
CIA
CitadelBroadcasting
Coca-ColaEnterprises
Comerica
ConsolidatedGraphics
ConsumersEnergy
CrainCommunications
CropProductionServices
Crowe
DaimlerChrysler
DartContainer
Deloitte&Touche
Delphi
DepartmentofHomelandSecurity
DetroitDiesel
DonerAdvertising
DowChemical
DowCorning
EnterpriseRent-A-Car
Ernst&Young
FifthThirdBank
FlintCommunitySchools
FordMotor
Frito-Lay
GeneralDynamics
GeneralElectric
GeneralMills
GeorgiaPacific
GlaxoSmithKlinePharmaceuticals
GrandLedgePublicSchools
GrandRapidsPublicSchools
HiltonHotels
HNTBCorp
HoneywellInternational
IBM
InghamCountyMedicalCareFacility
IRS
JanssenPharmaceuticals
JBHuntTransport
JCPenney
Jewel-Osco
JohnDeere
Johnson&Johnson
JohnsonControls
JWalterThompson
KellyScientificResources
Kimberly-Clark
KPMGLLP
KraftFoods
KrogerCompany
LansingStateJournal
LaSalleBank
LearCorp
LockheedMartin
Marriott
MarriottHotels
Marsh
MarshallFields
Mervyns
MichiganAssociationofBroadcasters
MichiganDepartmentofAgriculture
MichiganDepartmentofTransportation
MichiganEconomicDevelopmentCorp
MichiganFarmBureau
MichiganNon-ProfitOrganization
MichiganStatePolice
Microsoft
Monsanto
MorganStanley
MPIResearch
NavalSurfaceWarfareCenter
NestleUSA
NewellRubbermaid
Nissan
Nordstrom
NorthAmericaPackaging
OfficeDepot
Ortho-McNeilPharmaceuticals
OwensCorning
OwossoPublicSchools
ParkerHannifin
PeaceCorps
PepsicoBeverages&Foods
Pfizer
PhilipMorrisUSA
PPGIndustries
PriceWaterhouseCoopers
ProgressiveInsurance
PulteHomesCorp
QuadGraphics
SearsRoebuck
Shell
SherwinWilliams
Sigma-Aldrich
SocialSecurityAdministration
Soil&MaterialsEngineering
Sonoco
SparrowHealthSystem
StandardFederalBank
Steelecase
StrykerInstruments
SunChemical
TargetCorp
TeachForAmerica
Toyota
TRW
Unilever
UnionPacific
UPS
USAirforce
USArmy
USDA
USMarineCorps
USNavy
Valassis
VisteonCorp
WatsonWyattWorldwide
WhirlpoolCorp
Young&Rubicam</p>

<p>The Academics
Michigan State University has an excellent academic reputation. Many people consider MSU’s business, education, communication, veterinary, mathematics, journalism, and engineering majors to be the most successful at transforming students into future scholars and leaders. Most students find the professors at MSU helpful and approachable. However, many students find that it can be difficult to vie for a professor’s attention in some of the University’s crowded required classes. Just like any school, there are two types of professors at MSU: there are some that really want students to learn as much as they can from the course; and then there are a few that don’t mind lecturing for two hours in a monotonous tone, to a classroom filled with students either half awake or working on a crossword puzzle in the newspaper.</p>

<p>One thing students from all colleges can agree on is that, when they come to MSU, they better be prepared to work hard and make their studies a priority. If they want to survive four years of attending MSU, the best advice is to grab a pen and notebook and pay attention in class. Usually the professors are more than willing to answer any questions before or after class—but be warned, very few professors, if any, will spoon-feed students course material. The initial plunge into college courses can be quite intimidating at first, but there are plenty of resources available on MSU’s campus to help new students adjust to college academics. Take advantage of office hours and help sessions, and create study groups to survive university requirements. Also, try to do as much research on professors and courses as possible before enrolling in classes. The advantage of attending such a large school is that there are plenty of other students who can offer advice about the class. With over 5,000 faculty and academic staff members, students are bound to find at least a few inspiring professors.</p>

<p>The Environment</p>

<p>East Lansing has a wonderful atmosphere—surrounded by trees and Red Cedar River, a walk through campus during the fall colors is breathtaking, as is a stroll downtown to the shopping strip and restaurants. The backdrop of the Lansing Capitol is visible from certain parts of campus, making the landscape feel intimate but still spread out.</p>

<p>The MSU campus is one of the most beautiful campuses in the state. Full of activity and nature, the campus is simply gorgeous in any season. A river lined with trees winds through the center of it. The buildings are historic and statuesque. The football stadium, Spartan Stadium, is one of the largest college football arenas in the United States. Because East Lansing is basically a college town, most of the residents are quite young; as such, Downtown on the weekends is always crowded with people heading out to the clubs, attending open mic nights, dining outside and people watching, or shopping at the trendy stores. Some of the areas in Downtown Lansing can be unsafe, but East Lansing for the most part is a comfortable haven for students to relax and unwind with friends after a stressful week of classes.</p>

<p>The Weather</p>

<p>Michigan residents experience a variety of weather patterns. It is not unusual to begin a week wearing snow boots and end it in shorts and a T-shirt. Summers are hot and can often be humid, while winters bring below-freezing temperatures and plenty of snow. Students should pack everything from shorts to a full set of winter gear. Fall and spring usually bring temperatures somewhere between these two extremes. During these seasons students can be found studying or playing sports outdoors, enjoying the sunshine. Rainy days occasionally put a damper on walking to class, but at least residents don’t have to worry about hurricanes or earthquakes.</p>

<p>Although Michigan weather is not always pleasant, seeing the leaves explode into color during the fall shouldn’t be missed. Despite the winter cold, snow-covered trees and buildings turn campus into a miniature winter wonderland. Students from the Midwest or the East Coast should have a good idea of what to expect from Michigan’s weather. Those who are fortunate enough to hail from the sunnier states, however, are in for a treat. Just don’t forget to pack a warm coat, gloves, earmuffs, and one heavy-duty umbrella</p>

<p>Quick Stats-Penn State UP</p>

<p>African American 4%
Asian American 6%
Hispanic 4%
International 4%
Native American 0%
White 78%
Unknown 5%</p>

<p>Firms That Most Frequently Hire Grads<br>
Bank of America
Boeing
Dick’s Sporting Goods
DuPont
General Electric
IBM
Johnson & Johnson
Merrill Lynch
Shell
Target
Grads Entering Job Market 6 Months: 57%</p>

<p>Advice on Finding a Job/Internship </p>

<p>The place for most students to get started on their job search is at the Bank of America Career Services Center, located next to the McCoy Natatorium. The staff at the career services building specializes in helping students perfect their r</p>

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<p>As for the recruiting by the companies, here is a ranking by Wall Street Journal:</p>

<p>[Best</a> Colleges & Universities - Ranked by Job Recruiters - WSJ.com](<a href=“Best Colleges & Universities - Ranked by Job Recruiters - WSJ”>Best Colleges & Universities - Ranked by Job Recruiters - WSJ)</p>

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<p>@anialways - great stats. It is actually really useful, because it can take a lot of digging in internet and it is nice to have someone do it for you.
Anyway…I am curious…do you you have the demographic/other stats on virginia tech?</p>

14

<p>Hey fallparent</p>

<p>Is that question,VTech, addressed to me? If it is I can make it happen.</p>

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<p>^yea…to you :slight_smile: you are good at digging up the facts.</p>

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<p>Virginia Tech</p>

<p>""Diversity</p>

<p>Quick Stats</p>

<p>African American 4%
Asian American 8%
Hispanic 3%
International 2%
Native American 0%
White 73%
Unknown 10%</p>

<p>The majority of Virginia Tech students are white, but many other ethnicities are represented and seem to mix into the student body well, with very little tension. In the past, Tec hasn’t had the best reputation regarding diversity, but the school is making a conscious effort to promote diversity, in all aspects. Cultural demonstrations, such as the International Street Fair that showcases food, dance, and art from nations all around the world, are put on all throughout the year, and with clubs like the Asian American Student Union, LGBTA, and the Hindu Student Council, students have the opportunity to get involved and represent any demographic group they choose</p>

<p>Internships and Jobs</p>

<p>Firms That Most Frequently Hire Grads<br>
Accenture
Bearing Point
Deloitte
ExxonMobil
Freddie Mac
GE
IBM
Lockheed Martin
Marriott
Northrop Grumman
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Army
U.S. Marine Corp
U.S. Navy
U.S. Patent and Trademark Office
Virginia Tech
Wachovia
Grads Entering Job Market 6 Months: 63%
Advice on Finding a Job/Internship Visiting the office of Career Services can be very helpful, and it’s good to check out the Career Center way before you think you’ll need it. It may be able to help you pick a major, find an internship, and eventually find a career. The Career Center is in contact with all types of businesses, so using the Career Center is great networking. Professors and academic advisors are another great source for help in finding a job or internship. Many professors and graduate students at Virginia Tech are involved in research and will often hire undergrads to help with their research</p>

<p>The Weather</p>

<p>Weather in Blacksburg can be very unpredictable. Students tend to dress in layers, since it may be freezing in the morning and in the 70s by afternoon. It often feels like Blacksburg goes through four seasons in just one day. Raincoats and umbrellas are definitely a must at Tech, because it rains a lot. In the winter, students are faced with a few inches of snow now and then. Winter is best known for its biting cold winds that whip at students as they cross the Drillfield. Classes are rarely cancelled because of snow, though ice has caused the University to shut down in the past. The rule around Blacksburg is that if public transit is still running, then Virginia Tech classes are probably still on. While there isn’t any place to ski or snowboard in Blacksburg, students still get out and play in the snow. On- and off-campus students grab laundry baskets, trash bags, trays, and sleds, and head out to hills to go sledding. The Drillfield is transformed into a gallery of snow creations and the battlefield of the annual Cadet Versus Civilian Snowball Fight.</p>

<p>Blacksburg weather is notoriously indecisive. It is not uncommon to have to struggle through blustering snow and biting wind on the way to class, just to step outside an our later and find a calm, sunny afternoon. Just when students begin to get sick of the gloomy, cold winter weather, the warmer days begin to ease back in. Spring tends to come abruptly, and students respond by bringing out summer clothes way earlier than necessary. In the summer, it can get pretty warm, staying in the high 80s and 90s. Since most dorms lack air-conditioning, fans are a must.</p>

<p>The Academics</p>

<p>Everyone knows Virginia Tech for its engineering departments. While Tech does have an excellent engineering program, there are other programs at the University that shouldn’t be overlooked. The Pamplin College of Business offers degrees in accounting, business information technology, economics, finance, and more. Business management is one of the most popular majors, along with engineering, biology, psychology, and computer science. Besides sciences and business, Tech offers many liberal arts majors. Virginia Tech students in all majors have the advantage of taking classes with professors who are active in their fields. Often, students will even take a class from a professor who wrote the textbook they use in class. Some students do worry that professors get more wrapped up in research than in teaching, and with many foreign professors and TAs, communication can often be a little difficult, but most students will admit that professors are willing to take time to meet with students on an individual basis to provide extra help and advice.</p>

<p>At the beginning of a student’s time at Tech, classes are large (often 300 students or more) and are often taught by graduate students. It is easy for freshmen to feel a little lost and overwhelmed, but classes do get smaller as students get more involved in their majors. With professors who are leading the way in research in their field, Tech students have the unique advantage of learning straight from the people who write the textbooks and even have the opportunity to get involved in their research. While the workload may seem a little overwhelming at times, all a student has to do is take the initiative to show he is interested, and most professors will go out of their way to offer whatever additional help they can.</p>

<p>The Environment</p>

<p>Living in Blacksburg combines the convenience of being able to walk everywhere with the familiarity of knowing most of the shops and restaurants in town. The town’s size and location do leave some students feeling like they’re in the middle of nowhere. On the plus side, there is a downtown area that caters to college students’ tastes. Also, a variety of restaurants surround the campus, many of which are priced to fit a student budget. Students who come to Virginia Tech from big cities may miss the hustle and bustle. But again, many students enjoy living in a town that revolves around their university. Even the locals feel like Hokies—going to games, hanging VT banners in their windows, and going to school events. Blacksburg is mostly self-sufficient, with numerous grocery stores, restaurants, shops, and services. The town is also a 15-minute drive from Christiansburg, where students can find a Super Wal-Mart, Target, and a mall with a movie theater.</p>

<p>If you’re a nature lover, there’s plenty for you to do in and around Blacksburg. There are hiking trails, the New River, and campsites close by. Students who are less of the outdoors type can go downtown and find restaurants, movies, and bars. Though many students find the small town atmosphere and close-knit community enjoyable, there’s a limit to how much a small town can offer. For some student, by their fourth year at Tech, they might be ready to get out of Blacksburg and see something new. “”</p>

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<p>^Thanks !!</p>

18

<p>Both Michigan State and Penn State are great schools so you won’t really go wrong either way. I’m a MSU senior in the honors college so I can tell you a little bit about my school. </p>

<p>There are a TON of international students here - most of them are Chinese but there are sizeable portions of international students from other countries such as India. The interaction between international students and domestic students really could be better at MSU- a lot of times, international students tend to isolate themselves/fall into their comfort zones and just hang out with other international students from the same country/who speak the same language (because it is easier). But if you as an international student want to reach out to others, it is relatively easy as well at MSU. The international students office on campus holds tons of cool programs that allows you to meet not only other international students from other countries but also meet domestic students. There are tons of student groups that you can get involved in like CIUS (Coalition of Indian Undergraduate students), we hold Satrang (big Indian dance performance every year) and other groups to meet not only international but domestic students. If you are living in the dorms that is probably the easiest way to meet students of all kinds (but you can also meet people in your classes). In terms of overall diversity, I am very happy here at MSU. There are always a ton of cultural events going on for all types of communities and it is relatively liberal/welcoming for all groups. </p>

<p>Honors college-wise, I really enjoy the benefits that it gives. Early registration for classes really makes things easy, then the way-flexible general ed requirements are super nice as well. You have the option to take graduate classes, skip all prerequisites upon approval, and can take honors options/honors classes that allow you to take smaller classes (better interacting with the professor and fellow students). Engineering at MSU is a very solid program and tons of companies recruit at MSU for engineering majors. Also, there are a lot of research opportunities for students at MSU (especially in the honors college). </p>

<p>I don’t know exact comparisons between Penn State and Michigan State academically - both programs are comparable with Penn State having the slight edge in overall academics. However, since you are in the honors college at Michigan State (and not the honors college at Penn State) I would argue that your academic experience (and most likely cultural experience) at Michigan State would likely be better overall.</p>

<p>Also, you can apply to Schreyer HC after the first year but it is super competitive (see here <a href=“http://www.shc.psu.edu/future/gateway/index.cfm[/url]”>http://www.shc.psu.edu/future/gateway/index.cfm&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

19

<p>^great post.
OP: I gather you want a school with less internationals, as you are concerned that may not give you the American education you want.
But I would advise you to chose colleges that have fairly good international base as support is very much needed. And your new family is your international community. <a href=“http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/before-applying-to-college-in-the-u-s-indian-students-should-be-able-to-answer-why/[/url]”>http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/before-applying-to-college-in-the-u-s-indian-students-should-be-able-to-answer-why/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And like the above post said, you can still be part of the american culture by making sure you get yourself out there in different groups.</p>

20

<p>Thanks a lot everyone! I have finally decided on Penn state. I still have my doubts, but at the end of the day both are awesome universities, and I’m not sure I’m gonna face any problems in either.</p>

<p>I’m just gonna accept and do all the necessary paperwork and NOT over think my decision.</p>

<p>I just have this weird feeling though. I feel very guilty going to Penn State because of its high cost. I know my parents can pay it no problems, and they still continue to stress that money is not an issue whatsover, but I still feel guilty. Any suggestions?</p>