Son dropped of Ivy League and into 4th tier school

Parents Forum
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<p>"I didn't attend an Ivy League school, but I graduated from a similar school (Northwestern) and I will tell you that no matter what, if the school is not a perfect fit for the student, he or she will struggle and easily succumb to depression and nervous breakdowns."</p>

<p>There are no schools that are perfect fits for anyone.</p>

<p>If the problem is something like chronic depression or a personality that's overly perfectionistic, the OP's S's difficulties may have occurred even if he had gone to a far less competitive school. </p>

<p>It may be best for him to take time off from college -- all colleges -- until his depression is resolved. Afterward, he may decide to return to his Ivy or he may decide to transfer to another school, but as long as he's very depressed, he's not in a position to make good decisions that are permanent.</p>

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<p>The OP says her son is recovering, and is doing well where he is now. Doesn't sound as though he needs to take time off to me; it sounds like he has made the adjustments he needed to make to succeed, and yay! for that!</p>

<p>returningstudent, the number of people who graduate from Ivies is very small when compared to the number of positions available to college graduates. Fear not for those who do not graduate from Ivies!</p>

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<p>In the last two hiring committees I have sat on, we had applicants with degrees from Princeton, Dartmouth, and Reed, among others. We hired two excellent people, one with a degree from Western Washington U., and the other from Evergreen State College.</p>

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<p>The below quote from the OP is why it seemed to me that he may still have quite a bit of recovering to do. Even though he's at a commuter school, it seems that he still could make friends if his depression had more fully resolved. It can be hard for someone who has been suffering from depression to know when their depression has resolved. Just because someone is able to attend classes and do well doesn't mean that their depression has resolved enough for them to be in a good position to make permanent decisions about their life.</p>

<p>Saying this from a person who has had problems with depression including in college.</p>

<p>"He has no social life because his HS friends are all out of state and he has not made connections at the new school because he is a commuter student."</p>

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<p>It doesn't seem like any of our universities are creating these people according to your company's experience. Where are we going to find these people? From other countries?</p>

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<p>Depression has many faces, many causes, and it comes and goes. Unless you have experienced it, you can't understand what it does to you. And it hits many people in late adolescence/early adulthood- right in the middle of the college years. It's not just a bad mood, and it takes more than an attitude adjustment or change of scene to get out of it. If the young man is doing better where he is, that's very positive- why yank him out of that just for prestige or to make friends? He needs to be the judge of what's within his comfort zone.
Some people aren't OK outside of their comfort zone.</p>

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<p>Ellemenope, I won’t presume to speak for all companies, but I know that I am making an internal push (yes, I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet on this issue) to truly broaden our range of recruiting efforts. I’m asking that HR start by actually thinking about this (much to the extent that I am) issue and get creative. Read these boards and others. Learn what some non-Ivy universities are doing to recruit top students. Some schools are “buying” top students and it’s working. Go get those kids. Ask potential hires to talk about their thoughts on…oh, I don’t know…anything that might expose an ounce of curiosity about the world. They don’t have to have gone on some “Look at Me Save the Poor” service project in high school; just find me kids who know how long the Iraq war has been going on, who know that most people on this planet still don’t have basic phone service, who know that the health of any organization depends on a little selflessness from everyone(yes, executives included-shocking!). Just find me someone who hasn’t won every ribbon, every prize, because my hunch is those kids spent far too much time focused on themselves, not on their relationships to others or to the larger world.</p>

<p>The kids/young adults I’m looking for are out there, and in this country. They are hiding among the masses and I aim to find ‘em!</p>

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<p>r2dtoo, I just want to say I like your posts.</p>

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<p>You know, so many of the issues around Ivies or other prestige schools just don't exist in much of the country. I can say with absolutely certainty it doesn't where I live, and I live in a liberal state capital. A very small number of students apply to Ivies, a smaller percentage get in, and an even smaller percentage go (it is not uncommon out here for them to choose to attend BYU or Calvin College instead). They have almost no track record in employment because they rarely come back. Their alumni networks are virtually useless because the alums who are out here, with some rare exceptions, don't hold positions of wealth or power. </p>

<p>Which isn't to say there aren't some networks that in fact have some sway here. The UWashington, Washington State U., and BYU networks are strong, and, in certain circles, the same can be said of Whitman. A University of Chicago social work degree has some prestige. But other than that, when we hire, you might get 15-20 seconds on where does your B.A. come from, and then it's all "what can you do for us?" and "why should it be you?"</p>

<p>Now let me be clear: I went to a series of "high-prestige" schools, and (I believe) benefited greatly from their environments (though, if I had the choice now, I wouldn't do the first one again). I am thankful for the great education I received. But as for the employment/prestige benefit? Well, let's just say that someone else must have been getting my share these past 35 years.</p>

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<p>I am fascinated by the variety of responses to my OP. I see the point of Northstarmom - depression takes a long time to resolve. My son is in counseling and on medication but that needs constant tweaking ~ recovery is a process for sure. At this point I don't know what is actually the best social and academic fit for him and neither does he so he is doing what he can do and taking responsibility for it. That in itself is an education.
On some level though I still agree with the student who has been posting. My husband and I work for a major pharmaceutical corporation and I previously worked for an Ivy medical school. I can see a definite difference between the new hires from better schools vs mediocre schools no matter how equally skilled they are. Sometimes it is as nuanced as the exposure and appreciation that they have for the arts, cultural differences, good literature, and respectful debate. That makes them very interesting co-workers. I don't mean to paint everyone with a broad brush but the ability of the finer Universities to bring in intriguing guest speakers and events cannot be denied. At the Ivy my son met the Dali Lama ~ won't happen at the small state school. He also loved conversing with his friends there about politics and social issues. I know finding good employees is all situational - all I am saying is don't bash the top schools, these kids have some depth - and that was fostered at the schools they graduated from. (and I am not saying that all lower tier school kids don't) Let's cut the student poster some slack.</p>

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<p>This generation (younger) is NOT Ivy obsessed. Only CC is Ivy obsessed. The majority of young adults in this country think a flagship state university is the height of prestige.
My company (I am also an exec at a large company) isn't particularly concerned with the prestige of the school. (that would be an understatement) Our CEO is LSU, CFO is Cal- we have a mix. Depending on who is looking at your resume, a "name" school might get you a second look- or it might not.<br>
If you want to work on Wall Street, it might help somewhat to go to a prestigious undergraduate school. The majority of college grads do NOT want to work on Wall Street.<br>
This young man will find his path and it might be a totally different one than he and his family envisioned when he got the Ivy acceptance. Things change. That's often not a bad thing. It requires some adjusting and some letting go of the "Plan".</p>

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<p>It may also be that since your son is not quite over his depression that staying at home and going to a local school is what he can handle right now. He may need more time and support before he can venture out again. I would not push about going back to the original school but present it as a option if the opportunity arises. If he is adamently against it, let it go. As parents, we often do not know the entire story of what happened while they are away, and it just might be the best thing for him to take things slowly and close that chapter of his life. I've known loads of folks who have done this and done very well in life.</p>

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<p>"This generation (younger) is NOT Ivy obsessed. Only CC is Ivy obsessed. The majority of young adults in this country think a flagship state university is the height of prestige."</p>

<p>ITA. CC is such a non-representative world.</p>

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<p>""This generation (younger) is NOT Ivy obsessed. Only CC is Ivy obsessed. The majority of young adults in this country think a flagship state university is the height of prestige.""</p>

<p>I agree. There also are plenty of people who are proud if their kids attend any college -- including a community college.</p>

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<p>I have to agree with the IVY obsessed comment. Very few of today's generation in my experience in the western US even care about the IVY league. Only a very small subset is obsessed. </p>

<p>Good luck to the OP. Tough spot but going back to a college is a great first step. There are a lot of great grad schools out there and kids come from everywhere and get in.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
"He has no social life because his HS friends are all out of state and he has not made connections at the new school because he is a commuter student."

[/quote]
I had a very different reaction to this statement. I have no issue with the students switch of schools ... leaving the Ivy League school probably will make some paths tougher (high end consulting or ibanks) while not affecting most ... and probably make some easier (local mid sized companies). The one thing that stuck out is the student is living at home ... if they NEED to that's one thing ... but otherwise I would push my kids to live on campus (or next to campues) whatever level the school is.</p>

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<p>First, dstark, thank you for the nice comment.</p>

<p>Second, I hope my comments didn’t come off as being too snarky. I appreciate the student’s perspective and am just hoping to broaden it a tiny bit.</p>

<p>Frandq, my experience has been the opposite of yours in terms of the quality of character I have found in kids coming from the Ivies. That said, I obviously have only my limited subset to base an opinion on. </p>

<p>I know there are excellent students in the Ivies, and excellent recent graduates from the Ivies, just as I am sure there are excellent students not at the Ivies and who did not recently graduate from the Ivies. </p>

<p>What I want is for those who DO place a higher value on the education received from an Ivy League school to stop and reflect. My professional and personal experience leads me to believe that many, many teens are being hoodwinked into believing that an education from an Ivy League school is, by its very nature, vastly superior, and worth spending their precious young years on shallow pursuits in order to obtain one. </p>

<p>As mini mentioned, Ivy obsession is somewhat regional, and markedly different between industries. My world falls somewhere in the middle, so I get a real taste of what seems to be a growing blight. I think we can do better by our kids.</p>

<p>So, I guess I’m just hoping that some will read my posts and look at their situations using my different perspective. I mean, isn't that really what we are all trying to do here-use our experiences and personal knowledge to help others?</p>

<p>And frandq, I truly believe your son will excel where ever he lands if you simply cheer him on (and his depression is successfully treated). Please let him know that this crazy CC poster thinks the knocked-down, who then get back up, are usually the real winners in life.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I had a very different reaction to this statement. I have no issue with the students switch of schools ... leaving the Ivy League school probably will make some paths tougher (high end consulting or ibanks) while not affecting most ... and probably make some easier (local mid sized companies).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh well, MC and IB are only 2 of a gazillion career choices one might make, so no big deal. Really.</p>

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<p>I must agree... the "real world" does not hold the Ivy League up on the same unquestionable pedestal that most of the posters on this forum do. To be perfectly blunt, most of the schools in the Ivy League (apart from perhaps Yale) simple ride in the slipstream behind Harvard and, relative to many other top schools, wouldn't be held to the esteem that they are if they weren't in the same sports league as Harvard.</p>

<p>In most parts of the country, nobody would frown at you for going to an Ivy school, but they're not going to give you a nice scratch-n-smell sticker either. In many regions it's the top public / semi-public schools that are seen as the prize to shoot for.</p>

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<p>I live in an area where many of the kids go to the "name" schools in the NE. It is a true minority who go to state schools in my neighborhood. Quite a big difference from the midwest where Big Ten Us were the prizes. I understand the feeling you get when your child has gotten entry into one of the highly desired schools and is now giving up the opportunity to graduate from there. It does hurt to say he is at Local U after proudly announcing his acceptance and matriculation at Prestige U. I'm right there with you on that one as I have three of them that have done variations on that theme. But also suffering through mood disorders, immaturity, stupidity, inability to cope in certain environments, I realize that harmony and success is really what you want for your child. If he is suffering and at risk at a more prestigious school, it is more anguish for all involved, and could be seriously detrimental to him. It is such a balancing act, and I know exactly how you feel, as I have had this dilemma three times over.</p>